BJ auction

**ViperGeorge** · 01-19-2020

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

George there has never been any proof that the TA badge was delivered with the car, before today no one has ever even said that. Obviously it was delivered somehow from FCA, but that delivery was in the form of a parts order for 10 TA badges. FCA allowed 10 identical ACRs to be made so that Woodhouse could have their own special edition. Theyre awesome cars and Im glad theyre resealing so well. I even think the orange looks better on the ACR. But since you called it out yes I think Bill is lying by omission where the TA badge came from.

I think I will go with their approval and the Dodge build and let the money Collectors are willing to pay define things

is some pretty good politician bullshit if you ask me.

Ive posted for a long time if anyone has actual facts to the contrary Ill shut up and apologize. But those involved with the build wont refute it. Im a data guy and facts not political bs matter to me.

Edit - formatting sucks on Bills quote above because this damn forum doesnt handle quotes or apostrophes correctly on iPhones.

Dude, you need to take a pill or something. Calling Bill P. a liar is ridiculous. He has forgotten more about Vipers and Dodges than you will ever know. I have known him for years and he has never lied. His passion for the Viper help bring our community things like the Gen IV ACR convertible, the ACR/TA, the Viper Rendezvous in Hastings, and other stuff. The Gen IV ACR convertible is one of the rarest snakes ever made. You are really getting hung up on some crazy stuff. Bill and the other big Viper dealers regularly spoke with Dodge and made recommendations on the Viper. Lying by omission isn't something Bill would do. ViperGeorge out.

Bruce H. · 01-19-2020

I'm not sure I can make the "market value" connection between hammer prices at B-J and what an owner could reasonably expect to get by selling elsewhere. To me it seems like a fantasy world masterfully created by B-J and bidders that they draw to their spectacle. When the ACR/TA sold for $220k or whatever Viper Exchange immediately raised the price of theirs to a similar level. They can use the B-J car to defend their asking price but may not expect or care if they actually ever sell it at close to that price, but rather use it to sell other models at top prices. And what is the likelihood that the B-J car could be resold at that price a second time? Maybe only at B-J? Don't know. On Auto Trader, I think not.

So where is the relevance with B-J hammer prices?

Or to restate, how relevant are B-J hammer prices?

**theviper** · 01-19-2020

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Edit - formatting sucks on Bills quote above because this damn forum doesnt handle quotes or apostrophes correctly on iPhones.

It's not the forum or the rest of the world that sucks. It's Apple's pompousness, arrogance, and refusal to follow the rest of the world's norms and formatting. For example, try doing simple business apps on Apple...sucks. EMRs don't work on Apple. Hell, even micro USB (UNIVERSAL serial bus) is something Apple shuns. They won't let anyone fix their equipment but their own stores, and then overcharge their customers. Let's put blame where it appropriately should be placed.

**Scott_in_fl** · 01-19-2020

Jon, I was primarily referring to the base colors. All the LE base colors are white or black (but for SSG). We know from TA popularity that the orange is overwhelmingly favored. That will go a very long way to ensuring long term desirability.

**Scott_in_fl** · 01-19-2020

Originally Posted by Bruce H.

I'm not sure I can make the "market value" connection between hammer prices at B-J and what an owner could reasonably expect to get by selling elsewhere. To me it seems like a fantasy world masterfully created by B-J and bidders that they draw to their spectacle. When the ACR/TA sold for $220k or whatever Viper Exchange immediately raised the price of theirs to a similar level. They can use the B-J car to defend their asking price but may not expect or care if they actually ever sell it at close to that price, but rather use it to sell other models at top prices. And what is the likelihood that the B-J car could be resold at that price a second time? Maybe only at B-J? Don't know. On Auto Trader, I think not.

So where is the relevance with B-J hammer prices?

Or to restate, how relevant are B-J hammer prices?

Agree, but that is why I also specifically wanted to correlate the 2017 Viper prices to other models like FGT so that we can gauge how inflated the pricing is. However, the other prices were fairly inline with what we see elsewhere. So, are the Vipers the only inflated cars at BJ? And unmodded Supras?

**Policy Limits** · 01-19-2020

Online current list for VooDoo II.

It mentions that it would probably go for over 350k at barrett-jackson in the description

Guess the collector car auctions do effect the market in general in some way.

**Viper vince** · 01-19-2020

Why would Voodoo #1 bring $210,000 and does it bring the other 31 up as well?

**SilverACR** · 01-19-2020

Originally Posted by Viper vince

Why would Voodoo #1 bring $210,000 and does it bring the other 31 up as well?

You can’t just buy one especially now. Yes all the Voodoos and probably G4ACRs see a bump now. This doesn’t mean if you list your car super high it flys off the shelf, but more owners likely will be holding out for bigger prices. Viper owner aren’t trying to move Honda’s they have a luxury item that most can afford to keep.

**USAFPILOT** · 01-19-2020

Originally Posted by Bruce H.

I'm not sure I can make the "market value" connection between hammer prices at B-J and what an owner could reasonably expect to get by selling elsewhere. To me it seems like a fantasy world masterfully created by B-J and bidders that they draw to their spectacle. When the ACR/TA sold for $220k or whatever Viper Exchange immediately raised the price of theirs to a similar level. They can use the B-J car to defend their asking price but may not expect or care if they actually ever sell it at close to that price, but rather use it to sell other models at top prices. And what is the likelihood that the B-J car could be resold at that price a second time? Maybe only at B-J? Don't know. On Auto Trader, I think not.

So where is the relevance with B-J hammer prices?

Or to restate, how relevant are B-J hammer prices?

I wonder if VE dropped the price on their McLaren Senna from 1.5M to 850K? Hehe

**Mark1107** · 01-20-2020

I love these forums:

57902099-C53A-489F-96F5-59B93D227483.jpg

(considering I was one of the biggest agitators until I wasn’t winning friends and influencing people!) lol.

**FrankBarba** · 01-20-2020

I'm lost here. What is it about the Woodhouse TA's? Is it a sticker package or
is it a go fast package?

**ViperGarageElite** · 01-20-2020

Bill Pemberton got the ok from dodge manufactures to have 10 custom dealer cars made to his spects as a going away present of our beloved viper brand. Some people are questioning if the stickers were puy on at factory or at the dealership to authenticate the 10 cars as special. Bill is stand-up period,I haven,t posted in my 20 years of ownership but this thread against his dealer production cars made me weigh in. THESE CARS ARE SPECIAL TO THOSE WHO WERE LUCKY TO GET THEM..... They are special due to the fact that one of the premeir dealers got the go ahead from Dodge to have a unique car built . Who gives a S$%t where the sticker was put on , special spect,special dealer, special sticker LOL. Love it. I do not have one. Thanks Bill for all your help and your leadership for our beloved brand

**Murpowa** · 01-20-2020

Originally Posted by ViperGarageElite

Bill Pemberton got the ok from dodge manufactures to have 10 custom dealer cars made to his spects as a going away present of our beloved viper brand. Some people are questioning if the stickers were puy on at factory or at the dealership to authenticate the 10 cars as special. Bill is stand-up period,I haven,t posted in my 20 years of ownership but this thread against his dealer production cars made me weigh in. THESE CARS ARE SPECIAL TO THOSE WHO WERE LUCKY TO GET THEM..... They are special due to the fact that one of the premeir dealers got the go ahead from Dodge to have a unique car built . Who gives a S$%t where the sticker was put on , special spect,special dealer, special sticker LOL. Love it. I do not have one. Thanks Bill for all your help and your leadership for our beloved brand

Well said. Bill and Woodhouse did something right with the ACR/TA as it commanded one of the highest premiums at auction not long ago

**ViperGeorge** · 01-20-2020

Originally Posted by FrankBarba

I'm lost here. What is it about the Woodhouse TA's? Is it a sticker package or
is it a go fast package?

Neither. The cars were all painted TA Orange from the 2014 TA 1. They all had the TA interior, black with orange stitching and they all had the TA's steel brakes which many prefer on the track due to maintenance costs. They all have the ACR-Extreme Aero and full ACR suspension. All 10 cars are identical, something that was not allowed on GTC cars. They all came with ACR and TA decals and numbered dash plaques. Bill, as he stated, had to get Dodge's approval to get the cars built. As he said he wanted to do 20 but Dodge only allowed 10.

By the way they had MSRPs in the mid to high $120s. I don't remember the exact number and am too lazy to go and look. Bill wanted a unique car that people could take to the track. A few people bought them and didn't drive them though. The one that sold at BJ-Scotsdale in 2018 had 125 miles on it. The one currently for sale at Viper Exchange for $219,950 has something like 500 miles on it. Mine on the other hand has 20,000 miles on it. 3 One Lap of Americas and one 2 week trip through Canada and the Pacific Northwest with the local VOA.

**ViperTony** · 01-20-2020

Originally Posted by Patentlaw

I find it all hilarious....

We have people who complain bitterly about others causing low prices through negative comments.
Then the same people go out.....and make negative comments on the possessions of others.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amen!

**SRT_BluByU** · 01-20-2020

Bill P. is awesome! Everyone knows Woodhouse cars command the highest prices no matter the model.

**Bryan Savage** · 01-20-2020

I want in on all the arguing too!!

No Girls Allowed TA.jpg

**Fatboy 18** · 01-20-2020

Great thread

**Fatboy 18** · 01-20-2020

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...ITION-1-239365

Ring edition

**ThunderbisonACR** · 01-20-2020

Originally Posted by commandomatt

Cant do that walk with you. The NFGT was very limited from the get go with more orders than production. This car will most likely never see a depreciation but hard to compare it to much else other than limited Italians.

The 2005-6 Ford GTs are now 10 +years old. In the first few years there was zero increase in value. As a mater of fact, many dealers had a problem getting them sold and many did cut the cost in order to do so.

So if we compare the Gen Vs to this, they are doing better. I am not talking about the entire production but the later years. Special editions, well put together 1 of 1s and powerful colors like the Strykers will be seeing an increase over time and in 10 plus years could very well be up there with the Ford GTs (as they are today) values.

Thats my take

Production numbers:
~675 Gen IV ACR's
~4000 1st Gen FGT's
~1350 2nd Gen FGT's

Not saying production numbers are the only factor in terms of future value, but 2010 was the best year for Gen IV, and they only made ~250 ACR's that year, including the special editions and ACR-X's. Maybe that has something to do with the higher prices for the 2010's at BJ this weekend...