Nurburgring Re Do or Local Events it s up to you

[13COBRA]

This is all a bit ridiculous. I agree that the lawsuit sounds like frivolous BS. Suing a substantial sponsor for using photos of the event that have little to no intrinsic or perceived value is weak. Clearly, there was something personal behind this.

However, whether blueprinted or not, or whether the cars had race clutches, hotter spark plugs, lighter weight oil, nitrogen in their tires, or shit, helium, etc., etc. seems like piss annie stuff to be bitchin about. I've been around factory motorsports for a long time and I can assure you that far more goes on in the "stock" classes than any of the aforementioned nonsense.

Lastly, I honestly do not see how or why any of this impacts values of the car. Is the new FGT devalued because it won LeMans with BS BOP rules??? C'mon.

Whenever we talk about the values of these cars, and Gen V ACR's in particular, we come up with plenty of reasons why these are future collectors -- last of the big displacement, NA, manual, rear drive American cars; amazing driving experience, handling, look/sound/feel, etc. The VE Ring effort is never one of them. It was not an official effort (which, in retrospect, might have been a good thing) and seemed to run on a shoestring budget that struggled with lack of parts, lack of track time, and lack of drivers -- from all indications, it was always doomed to fail. But to say that it will now impact long term future values is a bit of a reach. The future values of these cars will be just fine.

Scott! I knew you wouldn't let me down haha

No, I don't think this will have a huge impact on values, EXCEPT for the two Ring cars. Only reason it will affect them more is their values were inflated over a standard GTSR from the beginning.

[Camfab]

This is all a bit ridiculous. I agree that the lawsuit sounds like frivolous BS. Suing a substantial sponsor for using photos of the event that have little to no intrinsic or perceived value is weak. Clearly, there was something personal behind this.

However, whether blueprinted or not, or whether the cars had race clutches, hotter spark plugs, lighter weight oil, nitrogen in their tires, or shit, helium, etc., etc. seems like piss annie stuff to be bitchin about. I've been around factory motorsports for a long time and I can assure you that far more goes on in the "stock" classes than any of the aforementioned nonsense.

Lastly, I honestly do not see how or why any of this impacts values of the car. Is the new FGT devalued because it won LeMans with BS BOP rules??? C'mon.

Whenever we talk about the values of these cars, and Gen V ACR's in particular, we come up with plenty of reasons why these are future collectors -- last of the big displacement, NA, manual, rear drive American cars; amazing driving experience, handling, look/sound/feel, etc. The VE Ring effort is never one of them. It was not an official effort (which, in retrospect, might have been a good thing) and seemed to run on a shoestring budget that struggled with lack of parts, lack of track time, and lack of drivers -- from all indications, it was always doomed to fail. But to say that it will now impact long term future values is a bit of a reach. The future values of these cars will be just fine.

Scott, I wouldn’t be worried about the value of your car based on the events. Cheating is a part of racing as you know. If it affects the value of anything, it would be the vehicles used in the event. If I owned one of those cars that had a “blueprinted engine” from Prefix I’d be stoked. Now if it were swapped out for the OE engine and then sold to me as one of the cars used at the “Ring”, I’d be pissed. This whole event is the same chickenshit bullshit that melted the VCA down. Just because you can do something according to your rights, doesn’t always make it right.

[Steve M]

Well since his smarmy ass attorney chided me during the deposition that one MUST have a carbon clutch of you track a car, I can 100% say for sure it was a carbon clutch.

They should have been pressed on that issue...if it wasn't SFI certified, then it was no safer than an OEM clutch. There are two ways you can make it "safe":

1. Run an SFI rated clutch/flywheel assembly. The participating manufacturers as of this year are listed here: https://www.sfifoundation.com/wp-con...ers%20List.pdf I'm sure RPS wasn't on that list within the last couple of years either when all this was going down.
2. Run an SFI rated blowproof bell housing. This would have been the most correct way to do it since you'd still have the factory clutch/flywheel underneath, so all you would have done is add some additional sprung weight to the car.

They'll never admit to it, but the only reason why they would have done this was for the lighter rotating mass, and it does make a difference.

[pj]

Russ, Thanks for all your time, money and effort. I proudly display my poster in my man cave, and always use it as an opportunity for a good Viper story. Disregard the negative. It has no relevance.

You will want to rethink that in light of the latest information...

[commandomatt]

You will want to rethink that in light of the latest information...

Sadly, this is true for many that invested and promoted the run.

I also doubt we will be hearing from Mr. Oassis any time soon. Karma is a bitch though and she may be out looking for him

[TrackAire]

This has turned into a very interesting situation. If we proceed this conversation on the allegation that the Viper Ring cars were "modified" and not stock production vehicles, then this would be considered fraud based on what VNR claimed when they asked for our monies (both from the public and commercial sponsors). This was going to be a stock production vehicle attempt and highly marketed as such.

The key is there has to be proof that the cars were modified for the benefit of performance and not just safety....sorry, a carbon clutch is not a safety item, lol. "If" the cars were modified then this could be a financial fraud case against VNR. Could others also be named in the case such as Prefix, BJ Motors, Viper Exchanged, etc? I think that would depend if they knowing did modify the cars and were to receive financial benefit from a Ring attempt due to increase in marketing exposure, sales of vehicles or inflated vehicle values of the actual Ring Vipers. Knowing this was to be a stock production vehicle attempt and then modifying the cars with parts and labor in exchange for your name on the car and marketing rights is also fraud in my opinion.

Lets forget about the lawsuit for copyright infringement for just a minute and focus on the fraud issue at hand. Lots of private money was donated for these attempts as asked for on this forum. I'm sure Kumho had a pretty big financial stake in the attempts by supplying tires and tech support. I am sure there are other commercial sponsors that gave either cash or product to support the cause. If Prefix, BJ Motors or VE knew about the fraud, I would be very disappointed in them and probably would not do business with them in the future.

Somebody asked if Russ Oasis is going to reply to this thread....LOL, he is not that stupid. The only time you'll hear from him on this subject would be after subpoenaed for a deposition. In the meantime this thread revival by ClayR and public accusation of fraud is giving a lot of time to those implicated to tie up loose ends should a fraud case was to move forward. Nothing like having plenty of time to get everybody's story on the same page, make sure paperwork is correct, etc.

But if the above parties are guilty of fraud by knowing that the Vipers were modified, then so is ClayR. He's known all this time that the Vipers were not stock and he didn't disclose this to all of us that were contributing money and support to the Ring attempt. His court documents from January 2019 even claim this, so he knew way before that. Why didn't he make this public knowledge as soon as he found out? "If" Russ Oasis, Prefix, BJ Motors, VE and Clay new about this since the beginning, then they are all in the same pot of shit and dirty regarding the financial fraud issue. Looking at the court documents, it does appear Clay was trying to use this "modification" secret as a bargaining chip during the copyright case.

And then ClayR posts: "Not going to lie, I didn't want to say anything while I still had my GTSR. Glad I sold it." So Clay waited to sell the car before dropping the "Ring attempt is not stock" post to the Viper Nation....this sounds as smarmy as Russ Oasis' lawyer. Nothing like wanting to make a profit before ruining it for others trying to sell their cars.

I wonder if ClayR's attorney knows he is posting about this situation on an open forum....if he does and allows ClayR to continue to do so, then I can see why he lost the fight against Russ Oasis. ClayR, stop posting...you're not helping yourself and only further implicating yourself in knowingly defrauding the Viper Nation who tried to support a stock production vehicle Ring attempt.

[Dr.Ron]

This should not and likely will not impact the future value of a Viper. The majority of folks (like myself) haven't even heard of this backstory.
It's a sad ending to what could have been a great story.
The lawsuit seems ridiculous on the surface!
It's disappointing they tried for the record and tried to sneak the changes to the car...and for what??
Besides those things (clutch,engine blue printed, and whatever else), the roll cage and racing seat alone remove the phrase "stock" too, don't they? I wonder if they changed to racing brake pads and tuned the car too while they were at it.
Sad.

Ron

[Fatboy 18]

Here's my take on this.....Firstly Values, In my eyes Gen V Value have nothing to do with this.

What is No1 in this is we were told and asked to sponsor a Ring Record run, taking 2 stock ACR vipers to attempt a shot at adding another record to the list of the factory achievements.

We were told the cars were going to have safety cages fitted, but that was it! Kumo wanted to do a lot of testing with the tires and wanted a much privacy as possible so despite many sponsors, we were not encouraged to turn up and support the run, (unless you paid a really big sponsorship price).

So Bottom line is "We were lied to" (aledgeley).

I'm furious as if there is one thing I can't stand in life it's Dishonest people.

Serious questions need to be answered here, I would even like to see these questions answered in Court!

[ViperJon]

And then ClayR posts: "Not going to lie, I didn't want to say anything while I still had my GTSR. Glad I sold it." So Clay waited to sell the car before dropping the "Ring attempt is not stock" post to the Viper Nation....this sounds as smarmy as Russ Oasis' lawyer. Nothing like wanting to make a profit before ruining it for others trying to sell their cars.

As a GTS-R owner I'm at a complete loss why this situation is somehow going devalue ACR-E's or the GTS-R's in particular in anyone eyes. Who outside of this website and a few other places would know or even care what particular model they ran at the 'Ring and how does that reflect badly on the car itself? If they were Voodoo 2's would that make them all tainted somehow? Ludicrous. His relatively new found aversion to them strikes me as a bit odd as he was happily posting IG and FB photos of his up until he listed it for sale in February..... long after (years?) the court case was decided. Almost seems like an ready built excuse.

[BJG32]

It wont lose value, but may cause some to go with a cheaper color scheme since the run means nothing now. It would be cool to say this is the same model of car that ran the ring.... but now we have asterisk....stuff like this keeps home run hitters out of the hall of fame.

[MoparJohn]

One thing I would also like to see disclosed his who paid for the repair of the crashed ring car? I know it was sent to Raleigh, NC in a conex container to be repaired at a local body shop. Why wasn't it sent to Prefix?

[Scott_in_fl]

Elsa would say "let it go, let it go....."

Can you tell that I've been spending a ton of time around 5yo and 8yo little girls?

[BJG32]

Russ didn't let it go with Clay. Why does he get a free pass to cast stones from his glass house?

Who paid for the motors? Who owns them now?
Who paid for the clutches? Who owns them now?
Who paid for repairs?
How much did ring run inflate values of the 2 cars? Who profited?
Do the owners of new cars know tge engines/vlutches in them aren't the ones from the ring?
Who paid for the lawsuit?
Did the $100,000 ("winnings") really go to charity?

I think i know the answers, but it would all come out in a class action suit.

All "snakes" please exit the Viper family.

[13COBRA]

Russ didn't let it go with Clay. Why does he get a free pass to cast stones from his glass house?

Who paid for the motors? Who owns them now?
Who paid for the clutches? Who owns them now?
Who paid for repairs?
How much did ring run inflate values of the 2 cars? Who profited?
Do the owners of new cars know tge engines/vlutches in them aren't the ones from the ring?
Who paid for the lawsuit?
Did the $100,000 ("winnings") really go to charity?

I think i know the answers, but it would all come out in a class action suit.

All "snakes" please exit the Viper family.

All very interesting questions.

[ViperJon]

It wont lose value, but may cause some to go with a cheaper color scheme since the run means nothing now. It would be cool to say this is the same model of car that ran the ring.... but now we have asterisk....stuff like this keeps home run hitters out of the hall of fame.

Oh so then all the other "special editions" must be worth even less than nothing....they weren't even invited. Check.

[BJG32]

Oh so then all the other "special editions" must be worth even less than nothing....they weren't even invited. Check.

Read again.
It MAY cause an owner to buy a 135k viper instead of a hyper inflated SE....IF the ring feat was important to that person.

Also another way of saying very very little impact if any.

Think harder.

[GTSilver]

Very disappointed with what had happened to Clay as a forum member and contributor to the Nring attempt. Reading about the blueprinted engines and clutch reminded me when I ordered track pads for my viper from Pagid and was informed by Pagid Germany directly that the carbon track pads are the same ones that the viper used for its Nring attempt as well and the reason behind it was to give better brake bite and withstands more heat due to track use. RSC1 if I may recall was the compound.

[Steve M]

Very disappointed with what had happened to Clay as a forum member and contributor to the Nring attempt. Reading about the blueprinted engines and clutch reminded me when I ordered track pads for my viper from Pagid and was informed by Pagid Germany directly that the carbon track pads are the same ones that the viper used for its Nring attempt as well and the reason behind it was to give better brake bite and withstands more heat due to track use. RSC1 if I may recall was the compound.

I'm sure they were the stock brake pad shape at least.

[commandomatt]

It's a good thing the cars didn't manage to get the record. It could have got really ugly then.

While I did not throw any money at this attempt, I understand how those feel that did since all they wanted to see was the stock Viper go a kick some butt and hopefully come away with a record time. There are plenty of scammers out there, not hesitating for a second to take peoples money for personal gain.

[Angleiron]

Russ knew. Bernie knew. Pretty sure Andy knew. Whatever tech did the work knew. Prefix knew. So you can stop supporting Prefix right now.

Does anyone seriously think that the engine work was limited to blueprinting? I would bet there was some head and exhaust porting, and regardless if the engine was touched then it is not stock. I don't care what other manufacturers do with their cars as they are factory backed...this was Viper owner backed. What I find funny is why even try to do this deep state shit to begin with when they are many players involved that KNEW what was going on. Blueprinted engines don't come cheap, and how much did the engines and the clutch actually affect the numbers anyway? The tires were always going to be the limiting factors.

[ClayR]

This has turned into a very interesting situation. If we proceed this conversation on the allegation that the Viper Ring cars were "modified" and not stock production vehicles, then this would be considered fraud based on what VNR claimed when they asked for our monies (both from the public and commercial sponsors). This was going to be a stock production vehicle attempt and highly marketed as such.

The key is there has to be proof that the cars were modified for the benefit of performance and not just safety....sorry, a carbon clutch is not a safety item, lol. "If" the cars were modified then this could be a financial fraud case against VNR. Could others also be named in the case such as Prefix, BJ Motors, Viper Exchanged, etc? I think that would depend if they knowing did modify the cars and were to receive financial benefit from a Ring attempt due to increase in marketing exposure, sales of vehicles or inflated vehicle values of the actual Ring Vipers. Knowing this was to be a stock production vehicle attempt and then modifying the cars with parts and labor in exchange for your name on the car and marketing rights is also fraud in my opinion.

Lets forget about the lawsuit for copyright infringement for just a minute and focus on the fraud issue at hand. Lots of private money was donated for these attempts as asked for on this forum. I'm sure Kumho had a pretty big financial stake in the attempts by supplying tires and tech support. I am sure there are other commercial sponsors that gave either cash or product to support the cause. If Prefix, BJ Motors or VE knew about the fraud, I would be very disappointed in them and probably would not do business with them in the future.

Somebody asked if Russ Oasis is going to reply to this thread....LOL, he is not that stupid. The only time you'll hear from him on this subject would be after subpoenaed for a deposition. In the meantime this thread revival by ClayR and public accusation of fraud is giving a lot of time to those implicated to tie up loose ends should a fraud case was to move forward. Nothing like having plenty of time to get everybody's story on the same page, make sure paperwork is correct, etc.

But if the above parties are guilty of fraud by knowing that the Vipers were modified, then so is ClayR. He's known all this time that the Vipers were not stock and he didn't disclose this to all of us that were contributing money and support to the Ring attempt. His court documents from January 2019 even claim this, so he knew way before that. Why didn't he make this public knowledge as soon as he found out? "If" Russ Oasis, Prefix, BJ Motors, VE and Clay new about this since the beginning, then they are all in the same pot of shit and dirty regarding the financial fraud issue. Looking at the court documents, it does appear Clay was trying to use this "modification" secret as a bargaining chip during the copyright case.

And then ClayR posts: "Not going to lie, I didn't want to say anything while I still had my GTSR. Glad I sold it." So Clay waited to sell the car before dropping the "Ring attempt is not stock" post to the Viper Nation....this sounds as smarmy as Russ Oasis' lawyer. Nothing like wanting to make a profit before ruining it for others trying to sell their cars.

I wonder if ClayR's attorney knows he is posting about this situation on an open forum....if he does and allows ClayR to continue to do so, then I can see why he lost the fight against Russ Oasis. ClayR, stop posting...you're not helping yourself and only further implicating yourself in knowingly defrauding the Viper Nation who tried to support a stock production vehicle Ring attempt.

Calm down Perry Mason, you might want to get Colombo on the case! Maybe you should read what I said. It all came out in sworn depositions, which is like, real live testimony. At least that’s what my lawyer told me. He gets $500-$600 an hour so I’m sure he loves me. He did make a quarter of a million in legal fees. I had two lawyers for most of the ordeal. Like I said, i was found guilty, technically, yet no one else got sued who used the photos.

[ClayR]

As a GTS-R owner I'm at a complete loss why this situation is somehow going devalue ACR-E's or the GTS-R's in particular in anyone eyes. Who outside of this website and a few other places would know or even care what particular model they ran at the 'Ring and how does that reflect badly on the car itself? If they were Voodoo 2's would that make them all tainted somehow? Ludicrous. His relatively new found aversion to them strikes me as a bit odd as he was happily posting IG and FB photos of his up until he listed it for sale in February..... long after (years?) the court case was decided. Almost seems like an ready built excuse.

Throw this guy in with Russ. He blocked me on Facebook after I PM’d him about his response, because he knew about this lawsuit before I sold my car because we were “Facebook” friends. Lmao. Jon, go fuck yourself. Come on Jon, tell me how poor I am like you do with everyone on Facebook who disagrees with you. You’ve shown your true colors.

[ClayR]

And it wasn’t LONG after the court case was decided. Or, how would you know...

[Larryskillzs]

This whole story will hurt Viper ownership more than anything else.

Since the first day the "attempt" was mentioned on this forum, I had a bad feeling about the whole thing.

Reading what went down is just heartbreaking for the whole Viper community. The mods should erase this stain from the site, it's not a good look for the community as a whole.

[TrackAire]

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