Nurburgring Re Do or Local Events it s up to you

[LATAMUD]

I use my real name - but after working in the cyber security industry for a while, I started to really get worried about it and I stopped on all other forums. You'd be amazed at what the bad guys can do if they decide to mess with you. Chances are it won't happen, but when it does, you start to feel super vulnerable. I used to write a blog about security - and one of my articles was about state sponsored cyber crime. Within 24 hours, all of my online accounts were hacked, I had to freeze my credit cards, I was getting purchase confirmations from all kinds of crazy retailers that I never would have bought from. It was a huge pain. So, being as anonymous on the web as possible is probably a good idea - especially on a site where people think owning these cars means you must be in the top 0.001%.

Same for me. I've been targeted.

[Arizona Vipers]

If we set the record, I was planning on valuating my car at about $1MM since that would put it in the ballpark of the other cars that it would have beaten.

Isn't the GT3Rs about $180K? lol

[viperBase1]

I use my real name - but after working in the cyber security industry for a while, I started to really get worried about it and I stopped on all other forums. You'd be amazed at what the bad guys can do if they decide to mess with you. Chances are it won't happen, but when it does, you start to feel super vulnerable. I used to write a blog about security - and one of my articles was about state sponsored cyber crime. Within 24 hours, all of my online accounts were hacked, I had to freeze my credit cards, I was getting purchase confirmations from all kinds of crazy retailers that I never would have bought from. It was a huge pain. So, being as anonymous on the web as possible is probably a good idea - especially on a site where people think owning these cars means you must be in the top 0.001%.

Same for me. I've been targeted.

I used to do network security work and its scary out there/in here.

NEVER use your real name and for gods-sake never perform any financial actions on your damn smart phone!
No banking, no credit card stuff, no purchasing.. NOTHING!

Blows my mind seeing the banks themselves, encouraging the use of a smart phone app.. Its absolutely insane.
There isn't a single internet security expert in the world that advocates using a smart phone for any of your financials.
Just don't do it, it is not secure.

Isn't the GT3Rs about $180K? lol

Or a lightly used CPO car for ~$160K.
And for what you get.. I don't think its that bad.

[Scott_in_fl]

Following up on my prior posts, where I discuss the benefit of high DF cars and the unlocked potential of the ACR-E, I was just reading a SEMA post on IG about the Ford GT MkII. For those that do not know the specs, here are two squibs of info:

"Limited-edition, track-only @ford GT Mk II. Powered by a 700HP 3.5-liter Ecoboost engine equipped with a new aero package generating 400% more downforce than a standard GT $1.2 million and only 45 units will be built."

and

"At 150 mph, Holt says the car generates 1,800 to 1,900 pounds of downforce."

Does 700hp and 1,800 lbs. of DF sound familiar? If not, re-read Post #70.

The combination of very high DF, the tires to take advantage of it, and the power to push it down the straights is exactly why the ACR-E is the closest thing to a genuine racer with lights that you can buy.

[13COBRA]

Following up on my prior posts, where I discuss the benefit of high DF cars and the unlocked potential of the ACR-E, I was just reading a SEMA post on IG about the Ford GT MkII. For those that do not know the specs, here are two squibs of info:

"Limited-edition, track-only @ford GT Mk II. Powered by a 700HP 3.5-liter Ecoboost engine equipped with a new aero package generating 400% more downforce than a standard GT $1.2 million and only 45 units will be built."

and

"At 150 mph, Holt says the car generates 1,800 to 1,900 pounds of downforce."

Does 700hp and 1,800 lbs. of DF sound familiar? If not, re-read Post #70.

The combination of very high DF, the tires to take advantage of it, and the power to push it down the straights is exactly why the ACR-E is the closest thing to a genuine racer with lights that you can buy.

At 3500# that Ford GT MKII is ridiculous.

[Larryskillzs]

Give it to the best charity you can think of.

Let the almost 3 year old out of production Viper rest in peace.


7 flat is really impressive. For the circumstances, it’s badass. I know history will be very kind to the gen 5 Viper.

It’s the best NA manual sports car ever made.

[TheWessss]

SO I have given this proposal much thought and have arrived at my humble opinion. I will admit I enjoyed reading all of the different ideas that have been suggested and even more that we can all agree to disagree without getting heated. My first reaction to Russ's post was send them back to the Ring, go 9L, best tires/slicks, and leave our mark. If you know me, you know I'm a track guy, and a PROUD Viper owner so that just feeds into my ego really nicely. But then Mr. responsibility and accountability tapped me on the shoulders. The Viper had its turn at the ring and it will hold some of those records for a long time maybe even forever. It costs a lot of money to have this 2nd chance, where do the car(s) come from, will the big dealers contribute again, who is gonna supply the parts, It may rain (again), it could all be flushed down the toilet. As the President of my region, whom Russ is one of our board members, I asked myself is this doing the "most good" with the money?

Here is my .02

I would much rather see that money be put into a nice FDIC insured interest bearing account. Every 2 years we take those earned proceeds and apply that to our NVE track/event days. This money will lower the overall cost of putting on these events for years to come. The single biggest cost to an NVE is the track rental. What an opportunity to do the most and longest good for the survival of our car club. Members biggest complaint about NVE is the per person price tag. I know it is not the easiest choice because we all want to see our beloved Viper take its place on top of the throne. Reality is that is just not possible, time, cannot be turned back and the new cars just keep getting faster and faster. We had our moment in the sun and it was beautiful ( Ihave the banners hanging in my garage), we got the timed run, and it will stand in the books FOREVER, with no asterisks.

Maybe someone/team will show up to the ring with the dream setup, great driver, and be blessed with the weather to lay down that low 6:50 mark. I just don't think the club should pay for that line in the history book, especially with a footnote next to it. We have a real opportunity here to make sure we continue our survival, going back to the Ring does not accomplish that.

[TrackAire]

I think TheWessss brings up a valid and responsibility laden point. But, I don't see this as the "clubs" money. In fact, I'd wager to say that doing the Ring attempt helped both the club and Vipers in general because of the world wide exposure. People follow along on different social media outlets, Bridge to Gantry, etc. People see and want to learn more about the Viper when there is buzz. Setting two separate production car Ring records and getting very close to a sub 7:00 lap helped the Viper, and in turn what is good for the Viper is good for the club.

Going to the Ring would be wasteful, egotistical and may I say even braggadocios (sounds like a Viper to me, lol)
But the reality is nobody 10 or 20 years from now will know or care that a Viper Club member saved $50.00 on the track day portion of an NVE. Hell, they'll spend over that on four drinks at the host hotel bar during the event. People complaining about the price for an NVE have to have their heads examined.....it is a bargain. You'll never be able to make everyone happy....you don't even have to try since the events usually sell out. Can't afford to attend NVE?....I hear the Prius club is having a great potluck luncheon down at the city park I kid, I kid.

Trying has a cost. Creating history has a cost. Regrets have the biggest, both financially and emotionally. Going for it at the Ring will always be in the books, even if you don't set the record. I think the perfect Ring attempt would essentially be a stock production Viper (like the last attempts) but with a latest spec tire and wheel package with tires that can sustain the forces that the Viper can produce. Maybe that means 18" wheels front and rear or 18's and 19's?.... I don't know. But the tire must be able to handle at least one race lap flat out without falling apart.

What would make the attempt even more impressive is the fact the the Viper is not even in production....so essentially the world is watching a four year old platform beat today's best with just a new set of tires.

During the attempt, I would also open the vehicle up to examination by the worlds automotive press and even invite Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, GM and any other OEM's that manufacturers cars to examine the car as a "stock production" vehicle. I would market this attempt as a truly stock production vehicle against the world that uses so many tricks and cheats to set a good time. Go bonkers on social media daring other manufactures to come and examine the car....and ask if it is ok for the world to examine their Ring cars during their future "attempts". Make this about doing the attempt in a production vehicle....not one with removed HVAC systems, decals for headlights, empty door panels, etc. Dare the world to examine us and ask why other manufacturers do not allow their cars to be vetted. Create controversy and prove what can be done in a stock production vehicle.

[Gen5snake]

I think TheWessss brings up a valid and responsibility laden point. But, I don't see this as the "clubs" money. In fact, I'd wager to say that doing the Ring attempt helped both the club and Vipers in general because of the world wide exposure. People follow along on different social media outlets, Bridge to Gantry, etc. People see and want to learn more about the Viper when there is buzz. Setting two separate production car Ring records and getting very close to a sub 7:00 lap helped the Viper, and in turn what is good for the Viper is good for the club.

Going to the Ring would be wasteful, egotistical and may I say even braggadocios (sounds like a Viper to me, lol)
But the reality is nobody 10 or 20 years from now will know or care that a Viper Club member saved $50.00 on the track day portion of an NVE. Hell, they'll spend over that on four drinks at the host hotel bar during the event. People complaining about the price for an NVE have to have their heads examined.....it is a bargain. You'll never be able to make everyone happy....you don't even have to try since the events usually sell out. Can't afford to attend NVE?....I hear the Prius club is having a great potluck luncheon down at the city park I kid, I kid.

Trying has a cost. Creating history has a cost. Regrets have the biggest, both financially and emotionally. Going for it at the Ring will always be in the books, even if you don't set the record. I think the perfect Ring attempt would essentially be a stock production Viper (like the last attempts) but with a latest spec tire and wheel package with tires that can sustain the forces that the Viper can produce. Maybe that means 18" wheels front and rear or 18's and 19's?.... I don't know. But the tire must be able to handle at least one race lap flat out without falling apart.

What would make the attempt even more impressive is the fact the the Viper is not even in production....so essentially the world is watching a four year old platform beat today's best with just a new set of tires.

During the attempt, I would also open the vehicle up to examination by the worlds automotive press and even invite Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, GM and any other OEM's that manufacturers cars to examine the car as a "stock production" vehicle. I would market this attempt as a truly stock production vehicle against the world that uses so many tricks and cheats to set a good time. Go bonkers on social media daring other manufactures to come and examine the car....and ask if it is ok for the world to examine their Ring cars during their future "attempts". Make this about doing the attempt in a production vehicle....not one with removed HVAC systems, decals for headlights, empty door panels, etc. Dare the world to examine us and ask why other manufacturers do not allow their cars to be vetted. Create controversy and prove what can be done in a stock production vehicle.

Yep... +1

[serpent]

Give it to the best charity you can think of.

Let the almost 3 year old out of production Viper rest in peace.


7 flat is really impressive. For the circumstances, it’s badass. I know history will be very kind to the gen 5 Viper.

It’s the best NA manual sports car ever made.

The only manual NA car that will give the ACR a run is Gordon Murray's T.50
Too bad its $2.5 million, but the thought of driving around in an NA v12 screaming at 12,000 rpm and manually shifting would be fucking nuts.
The car also weighs in at 2160lbs too.

Not bad, the only car to give an ACR a run for its money is a $2.5 mill car. LOL

[ViperGeorge]

I think TheWessss brings up a valid and responsibility laden point. But, I don't see this as the "clubs" money. In fact, I'd wager to say that doing the Ring attempt helped both the club and Vipers in general because of the world wide exposure. People follow along on different social media outlets, Bridge to Gantry, etc. People see and want to learn more about the Viper when there is buzz. Setting two separate production car Ring records and getting very close to a sub 7:00 lap helped the Viper, and in turn what is good for the Viper is good for the club.

Going to the Ring would be wasteful, egotistical and may I say even braggadocios (sounds like a Viper to me, lol)
But the reality is nobody 10 or 20 years from now will know or care that a Viper Club member saved $50.00 on the track day portion of an NVE. Hell, they'll spend over that on four drinks at the host hotel bar during the event. People complaining about the price for an NVE have to have their heads examined.....it is a bargain. You'll never be able to make everyone happy....you don't even have to try since the events usually sell out. Can't afford to attend NVE?....I hear the Prius club is having a great potluck luncheon down at the city park I kid, I kid.

Trying has a cost. Creating history has a cost. Regrets have the biggest, both financially and emotionally. Going for it at the Ring will always be in the books, even if you don't set the record. I think the perfect Ring attempt would essentially be a stock production Viper (like the last attempts) but with a latest spec tire and wheel package with tires that can sustain the forces that the Viper can produce. Maybe that means 18" wheels front and rear or 18's and 19's?.... I don't know. But the tire must be able to handle at least one race lap flat out without falling apart.

What would make the attempt even more impressive is the fact the the Viper is not even in production....so essentially the world is watching a four year old platform beat today's best with just a new set of tires.

During the attempt, I would also open the vehicle up to examination by the worlds automotive press and even invite Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, GM and any other OEM's that manufacturers cars to examine the car as a "stock production" vehicle. I would market this attempt as a truly stock production vehicle against the world that uses so many tricks and cheats to set a good time. Go bonkers on social media daring other manufactures to come and examine the car....and ask if it is ok for the world to examine their Ring cars during their future "attempts". Make this about doing the attempt in a production vehicle....not one with removed HVAC systems, decals for headlights, empty door panels, etc. Dare the world to examine us and ask why other manufacturers do not allow their cars to be vetted. Create controversy and prove what can be done in a stock production vehicle.

Unfortunately I don't think the math works. At today's interest rates the rate of return on $100,000 invested would net very little. To get more of a return you'd have to take on more risk.

[SRT_BluByU]

Give it to the guy who got sued to cover his insurance deductible.. give the rest to charity. Keep the viper family... family.

[outnumbered]

If the intent is to best benefit the club, I say donate the money to the VOA, and allow the elected leaders to distribute based on need.

[LifeIsGood]

I get that a bunch of you track guys get hard when the topic is 'the Ring'. My guess is most members could give a rats ass about going back to the Ring. $100,000 / 1859 members = $53.79 each. How about a couple of viper t-shirts for each membership.

PS I like viper t-shirts.

[ViperSRT]

I get that a bunch of you track guys get hard when the topic is 'the Ring'. My guess is most members could give a rats ass about going back to the Ring. $100,000 / 1859 members = $53.79 each. How about a couple of viper t-shirts for each membership.

PS I like viper t-shirts.

Or better yet, a ring documenting shirt or other ring related gift for the contributors (I assume much fewer than club members overall).

[ViperJon]

What's the best case scenario? A ton of money spent and the Viper moves up from 7th to 5th on the 'Ring list or something like that? No one cares anymore except a small group of ego driven guys who want to attach their name to another attempt using money won from a lawsuit against a former sponsor. Seems a little unseemly to me.

[Bill Pemberton]

I would vote to donate the funds to the Club, since many organizations have trouble sustaining a healthy membership once an automobile is discontinued. The valuable history, mechanical advice, the continuance of some unique Sponsors who are still building products for us ( Doug Shelby is one good example), and the camaraderie could help fund VOA far into the future.

[ViperGeorge]

I would vote to donate the funds to the Club, since many organizations have trouble sustaining a healthy membership once an automobile is discontinued. The valuable history, mechanical advice, the continuance of some unique Sponsors who are still building products for us ( Doug Shelby is one good example), and the camaraderie could help fund VOA far into the future.

This is the best idea. Donate the funds to the VOA. Maybe put some restrictions on how it might be used by the club - things like membership drives, website development, or other ideas that would keep the club viable and grow or sustain membership.

[LifeIsGood]

This is the best idea.

George...didn't you see my t-shirt idea.

[ViperGeorge]

George...didn't you see my t-shirt idea.

Yea, but if I bring home any more T-shirts my wife will disown me. I already have three full drawers full of them and most are Viper or VOA related.

[ACR Steve]

Agree with Bryan 100% - Ring been there done it . Not exactly what we dreamed but records are that because it takes more then the skill it takes some good luck as well . To many players now that as fast and much faster then us on road courses.

I say come up with a way to honor the entire Viper community . Something that shows the other marques what owning a Viper is about . Its more then a car it a community, Its the great people you get to meet and spend time with .The common interest in a love for a car that unites us.

P.S. My legal name is ACR Steve or at least it is in the Viper world

[Scott_in_fl]

We need something that generates attention beyond this forum, and makes a lasting impression.

The Ring effort did that. Everyone was talking about it on all the forums, whether it be Lambo, McLaren, Ferrari, etc.

Dodge did it with their 13 SCCA track records run with the ACR.

That's what creates the buzz that people talk about. That's what generates recognition.

So, if those efforts are off the table, the question is how to re-create a similar marketing/publicity campaign.

Donating to a charity is a no-go. Something like 4% is the average "gift" that a charity ends up donating to a cause. The other 96% is spent on salaries and operating expenses. Ditch that idea immediately unless you can fund something directly like a VOA scholarship gift for underprivileged children -- that we manage ourselves, gratis. That is the only thing I could support.

Donating to the VOA is decent, but again, I don't see that creating much exposure for folks outside of this forum. I rather see it used to excite people that are not on this forum, but who are still car enthusiasts.

Let's get some more creative ideas going.

[Vegaskid]

Hookers and blow...

[ViperSRT]

Hookers and blow...

Yep, more creative ...

[simon455]

Develop active aero system for the acr maybe