Nurburgring Re Do or Local Events it s up to you

[Fatboy 18]

Right, any of the team mechanics wish to step up to the plate and confirm or deny the allegations about the Clutch?

[13COBRA]

Right, any of the team mechanics wish to step up to the plate and confirm or deny the allegations about the Clutch?

Kinda hard to say if they knew or not...

I guess the service ROs for swapping parts were made public during the lawsuit.

[ACR Steve]

BS we should all ask for our money back

[serpent]

I see some of that Viper mystique vaporizing, as well as some of its resale value.

Lol, are you trying to get a gen V? Nobody gives a shit about ring times. The ring heavily favors the german brands, especially porsche.

Oh no the ACR had a blue printed motor and carbon clutch. Its now worth 50k less!!!! Sell your ACR guys!

[BJG32]

BS we should all ask for our money back

Yes. You basically funded an exhibition track day for Oasis and friends.

[ClayR]

Right, any of the team mechanics wish to step up to the plate and confirm or deny the allegations about the Clutch?

Well since his smarmy ass attorney chided me during the deposition that one MUST have a carbon clutch of you track a car, I can 100% say for sure it was a carbon clutch.

[ClayR]

He should have sent you a cease and desist first before suing you, especially since we are all in the same community here. So let me get this straight, you posted pics on your Facebook of the 'Ring attempt and he went and filed a copyright on those 12 pics with the copyright office and you ended up having to pay $280,000 in damages, alone with $250K that you spent on legal fees? His lawyer knew that the statutory damages skyrocket once a copyright has been filed and they backdated it? He could have done it to anyone of us that posted these pics as well on a Facebook page with any mention of the business we own? I was sued last year over some ridculous bullshit, alls it takes is one scumbag piece of shit lawyer to take the bullshit case. I spent $300K to get the bullshit case dropped. It hurt my reputation online forever, destroyed my well being, my wife's well being, my health for 14 months it was a living hell.

That is exactly what he did, and it was 13 photos. And I am pretty sure I have rights to all of them now I paid for them, or just the FIVE they could prove. I am not sure because why would I want to use any of them. I am going to take a video of me buring a couple pictures.

[Vegaskid]

the lawsuit seems frivolous and personal on all accounts. Regardless of what photos were used I can't see how someone can sue somebody for nearly a quarter million dollars. It's not like the pictures generated tens of millions of dollars in revenue for anybody.

I think what bothers me the most is after the lawsuit was settled, Oasis came on to the Forum sounding like he was such a good guy and was going to give all this extra money to those in need when the reality is it was just stolen from one of our members.

[ClayR]

Has there ever been a 'Ring record made with a stock car ?

Has there ever been a Ring record with crowdfunding? Or maybe those manufacturers are a little bit smarter than exposing themselves in a lawsuit for the most frivolous of things.

[ClayR]

No shit Clay......that's all bull shit and sorry you had to deal with it. BTW, I want my Real ACR-E back so I'm hiring a better lawyer

On another note, did the parties that put this on also know and hide the fact this wasn't a stock attempt? I assume the engine builder did? What about the dealer?

I never contributed so I'm out nothing but I read these ring times and often wonder. I guess no need to wonder anymore. What I thought was an attempt presented by a stock ACR-E, turns out shows the ethics in those involved to hide reality from the masses. There are always people like that in all walks of life. That attempt is now tainted forever. Blueprinted engine for safety......seriously. Perhaps it was to secure the cam bolts.

I am not sure what was done, We found out there were two motors that were from Prefix signed by employees at VE. I even called VE to fish around and was lied to about it. When confronted in deposition about it, they admitted they HAD to do it for safety. My thing is that is creating a false sense of security for us ACR owners pushing our machines on the track. The ring attempt if no different than any one of us doing a track day with 20 or 30 minute intervals. That pissed me off big time.

[ClayR]

I'll bet the Corvette and Porsche fan boys are loving this.......

Who cares what they think to be honest. But yeah, I could have kept quiet and I did for a long time. Even let RUss have a victory lap. But when he lies and says I never had permission, well he may find himself in a lawsuit about that. Only thing is, I am not like him and don't sue for petty bullshit.

[13COBRA]

What's the over/under that Russ will chime in?

[ClayR]

I bet you're right!

I would like to know how many other people in the Viper community knew of these allegations?

Russ knew. Bernie knew. Pretty sure Andy knew. Whatever tech did the work knew. Prefix knew. So you can stop supporting Prefix right now.

[FrankBarba]

I too think we should file a class action law suit against all of the fraudsters. Too Bad Bernie K was
all caught up in this with the money guy Russ...These guys are professional criminals. I gave more money
when they asked. I was told I would get a helmet from one of the drivers...Yea great a Fun kin Simpson Helmet
with an autograph...I never receive a picture with my name on the side...I still call Bull Shit on Russ Oasis and his
people that received a paid vacation...

[Camfab]

I guess you should really think things through when you decide to destroy someone’s life over some pics. If there is truth to the swapping of engines, this could give the VCA meltdown a serious run for the money.

[ClayR]

Fatboy I'm on the same page as you!! I am pissed as I too donated money to the fund for the Ring attempt with a "stock production vehicle".

I'm not 100% sure which side I believe or side on regarding the lawsuit. Usually each side has their version and the reality is somewhere in the middle. I don't know but maybe a jury trial would have sorted this shit out.

But to market this as a "stock production vehicle" attempt and then find out that the clutch and engines were not stock, WTF is up with that? I'm not sure how true this is, but I would like to know the truth. I'm just am basing this completely on what ClayR posted above. If Clay knew, then I'm sure there were a lot of others in the know also.

If this was in fact not a stock attempt but was marketed as such by Russ to get our monies for the attempt using a "stock production Viper", then that has more validity for a lawsuit against Russ than a couple of Ring photos that were posted by Clay. Not knowing the particulars of the "group" or corporation set up for this Ring attempt, more people than Russ could be named in a lawsuit. Essentially this would have been fraud and people can ask for their money back.

I don't know the history of what happened to the Ring attempt cars, but if they were sold as the "Ring Vipers" that set a 7:01 lap time, then those owners probably paid a hefty premium for the historical significance of those Vipers. If they were in fact "not stock" and the attempt was a fraud, those owners may claim monetary damages also.

I guess we are no better than the cheats over at Porsche, Lamborghini, etc. One way or the other, hopefully the truth about the Ring Vipers cars comes out.

I gave about as accurate description as possible. I was found guilty of copyright infringement. The sticking point was the money. He wanted ONE POINT FIVE MILLION DOLLARS when he filed the lawsuit. 1.5 fucking million dollars because they argued willful infringement.

THERE

[sadil]

I don't even know Russ but he sounds like a dick head just by the videos I saw. For some reason, I am not surprised.

Clay, I feel for you. I hope the launch of your dealership was successful and you are able to put this behind you. Let's see some photos of the new location!

[ClayR]

I hear you pappy, but I'd bet $$ to donuts that when the engine was "blueprinted" it didn't stop there. There is a big gray area for that description. Perhaps the engines used were removed and the "stock" engines put back in. No one outside that inner circle would even notice. When I was a crew chief for a local nascar team we knew a guy running an illegal set up in his engine. Lighter rods, pistons and valve train. We could see him his advantage off the corners. Track politics prevent him getting a teardown but everybody knew. He broke or crashed most weekends so it wasn't that big of a deal for our points....but what an asshat that guy was.

I don't know but I am guessing the parts were swapped back. Prefix wanted the motors back.

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=SilverACR;410512]I read it and it seems to align to Clays story. I think Clay got screwed here. Tough stuff coming from your club members. Sorry to here this Clay. I thought about donating, but really don

[camarochevy1970]

Looks like Clay's legal team tried to get them to publicly admit to what they had done, but the court didn't force it. From this link

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20190109k04

Request No. 3 seeks "[a]ny documents related to any modifications you performed on the Vipers," while Request No. 10 asks for documents regarding prices charged for such modifications. (Doc. 63-1, at 6; Doc. 63-2, at 6.) Requests 4 and 11 seek the same such information as to "work performed on the Vipers" and related pricing. (Id.) Plaintiff argues that the information is sought only to "annoy and embarrass not only VNR but also the third party recipients, and may also prejudice VNR by interfering with its relationship with the third party recipients.

[ClayR]

the lawsuit seems frivolous and personal on all accounts. Regardless of what photos were used I can't see how someone can sue somebody for nearly a quarter million dollars. It's not like the pictures generated tens of millions of dollars in revenue for anybody.

I think what bothers me the most is after the lawsuit was settled, Oasis came on to the Forum sounding like he was such a good guy and was going to give all this extra money to those in need when the reality is it was just stolen from one of our members.

Yeah, he is pretty proud of himself. I can't count how many times he stated how successful he was in life. LOL

[ClayR]

As deceitful as it may be, I care less about the cars not being completely stock and more about the principal of suing Clay over something utterly pathetic. I don't care what the other side is...I see no justification for suing Clay, a major sponsor of this endeavor, over an image copyright on images used for a privateer effort. I'm a photographer myself, and the only time I've ever claimed copyright on images is when a business I had no affiliation with whatsoever used my images without permission or giving me credit. Even then, I didn't jump straight to suing...I asked that I be given credit or the photos get taken down. The brand took the photos down and that was that. Many times, brands or businesses have used my images and given me credit, and if their brand or business didn't conflict or compete with mine or my work, I happily let them use it as long as my credit was on it.

Again, how on EARTH can you justify suing a dealership that helped sponsor your campaign just for using promotional assets you produced?

Pathetic. You can take your charity & heroism and shove it.

Clay, I'm sorry again about all of this, and thanks for having the courage to finally speak up. As you can see, many of us are on your side.

Thank you. You are awesome and I have appreciated your support all this time.

[ClayR]

I see some of that Viper mystique vaporizing, as well as some of its resale value.

Not going to lie, I didn't want to say anything while I still had my GTSR. Glad I sold it.

[ClayR]

Kinda hard to say if they knew or not...

I guess the service ROs for swapping parts were made public during the lawsuit.

They were trying to suppress them. There are RO's at VE that they don't want anyone seeing.

[Mark1107]

Clay,

How much did you sell your GTSR for? You can pm me if you don’t want it public.

Mark

[Scott_in_fl]

Not going to lie, I didn't want to say anything while I still had my GTSR. Glad I sold it.

This is all a bit ridiculous. I agree that the lawsuit sounds like frivolous BS. Suing a substantial sponsor for using photos of the event that have little to no intrinsic or perceived value is weak. Clearly, there was something personal behind this.

However, whether blueprinted or not, or whether the cars had race clutches, hotter spark plugs, lighter weight oil, nitrogen in their tires, or shit, helium, etc., etc. seems like piss annie stuff to be bitchin about. I've been around factory motorsports for a long time and I can assure you that far more goes on in the "stock" classes than any of the aforementioned nonsense.

Lastly, I honestly do not see how or why any of this impacts values of the car. Is the new FGT devalued because it won LeMans with BS BOP rules??? C'mon.

Whenever we talk about the values of these cars, and Gen V ACR's in particular, we come up with plenty of reasons why these are future collectors -- last of the big displacement, NA, manual, rear drive American cars; amazing driving experience, handling, look/sound/feel, etc. The VE Ring effort is never one of them. It was not an official effort (which, in retrospect, might have been a good thing) and seemed to run on a shoestring budget that struggled with lack of parts, lack of track time, and lack of drivers -- from all indications, it was always doomed to fail. But to say that it will now impact long term future values is a bit of a reach. The future values of these cars will be just fine.