Nurburgring Re Do or Local Events it s up to you

[Russ Oasis]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

[BlknBlu]

Cause member Zero started using an alias.

Bruce

[DEMO MAN]

I never thought about it before, guess I just followed the trend. I'm David Miller Russ, and if u choose to do some charity work with the funds I'm in for $5000. I didn't donate to the Ring attempt but if u want any help with managing this I will do whatever I can to assist. Thanks for asking what the members think we should do with the money although some responses r probably not what u expected. David

[Russ Oasis]

Do something with the money that benefits all of the club's active members. The investors got what they paid for (except for maybe one). That was the excitement of a ring record attempt. Going again and trying different things doesn't prove anything that we don't know already. The guys that lost the world series could say, well, given an unspecified number of more games, we could be the world champion as long as we can walk away when we have the most wins.

I don't get it....I thought that those who are "enthusiasts" on the boards are not members of the club. Is that incorrect?

[J TNT]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

I do , I just removed the vowels.................lol !

[Russ Oasis]

I never thought about it before, guess I just followed the trend. I'm David Miller Russ, and if u choose to do some charity work with the funds I'm in for $5000. I didn't donate to the Ring attempt but if u want any help with managing this I will do whatever I can to assist. Thanks for asking what the members think we should do with the money although some responses r probably not what u expected. David

Hey David, you're a stand-up guy. I just might take you up on that. Charity seems like a great way to end the Ring journey.

[chris_lee]

If this happens, please cover it with video like the last round. That video was REALLY well done. Would be so awesome to see this happen!

[Arizona Vipers]

Agree and even more so if it's modded and not factory spec. Does anyone really care what a modded car runs at the 'Ring?
Let's say it runs a 6:58 now.....with a big asterisk next to it. Every comment will be "but......not factory..."

Yeah and why would we want to prove it's slower than a 500 horsepower GT3RS, we'll never beat that cars time.

[AZTVR]

I don't get it....I thought that those who are "enthusiasts" on the boards are not members of the club. Is that incorrect?

That is totally correct. I am not a current member of the club; so, my opinion about contributing the remaining judgement money to the club is about as impartial as you can get.

[Fatboy 18]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

Because this is not Facebook ..........Thank God.

[Jprince]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

Im using my last name. My first name is Jeff. I would love to see the car go back to the ring and hopefully have some things work more in favor to have some better results. Not that the times that were accomplished last time weren't impressive. I would also donate some $$ as I did before to help make it happen.

[13COBRA]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

EDIT:

And poof. lol

Thanks Martin.

[Martin]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

I use my real name - but after working in the cyber security industry for a while, I started to really get worried about it and I stopped on all other forums. You'd be amazed at what the bad guys can do if they decide to mess with you. Chances are it won't happen, but when it does, you start to feel super vulnerable. I used to write a blog about security - and one of my articles was about state sponsored cyber crime. Within 24 hours, all of my online accounts were hacked, I had to freeze my credit cards, I was getting purchase confirmations from all kinds of crazy retailers that I never would have bought from. It was a huge pain. So, being as anonymous on the web as possible is probably a good idea - especially on a site where people think owning these cars means you must be in the top 0.001%.

[Viperenvy]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

I joined prior to having Vipers and was envious.....so I bought two. Feeling better about myself now

[One Viper Bite]

I’m really happy to be part of a community that sues one of supporting vendors that you publicly thanked and plastered their dealer stickers all over the car. Makes me feel real good.

What about returning the funds to all those who donated and forgetting this whole Nurburgring nonsense.

Couldn't agree more.

Not to mention, I'm not sure why it was necessary to explicitly rule out 2 of the dealers that were sponsors. From what I remember, there were only 3 dealer sponsors on the cars, so that completely defeats the purpose of not naming names.

[braunstein82]

Charity car giveaway. Buy a $100k viper, maybe a dealer will take a hit on a higher one. $250 per ticket 1000 tickets. Members only. Each entry also get a custom commemorative ring shirt that can only be obtained by entering (so everyone feel like they get something). $200k for charity and $50k for the shirts and shipping.

Or just give a $100k car away at NVE, to me preferably��

[zee]

Back to the ring!!

[Snakebit10]

Some of you guys are boring lol...j/k...How many times in life do you get an opportunity for a do-over? Especially after learning a lot from the first go round?

Anyway if you don't want to see what a stock Viper with proper tires for the Ring can do why don't some of you at least want to see what a 9L can do with some MPSC 2R on?

You will always have a chance to give to charity. You wont always have a chance to do a redo/9L on the Ring. Just stirring the pot for those that want to see a Ring run.

[Heysie]

Charity car giveaway. Buy a $100k viper, maybe a dealer will take a hit on a higher one. $250 per ticket 1000 tickets. Members only. Each entry also get a custom commemorative ring shirt that can only be obtained by entering (so everyone feel like they get something). $200k for charity and $50k for the shirts and shipping.

Or just give a $100k car away at NVE, to me preferably��

Members only from what?
I've donated for the Ring event.

[Scott_in_fl]

I've given this some thought after reading the above posts, and I agree with Arizona that there is no sense in going back with a stock car to see if it can pull a 6:56 time. I think it can, and I'm sure Russ and those that were there think so too. But what does that really get us when the current record is 6:44.97 for the Lambo SVJ?

If we're going back -- and I think this would be much more fun than doing local events -- then let's go back only to go after the 6:44.

Now, how can we do that? I've written pages upon pages on this forum about how this car seems to have been an effort by FCA engineers that got cut short. My theory is that the car was designed to be a high DF (which happened) and high HP (which did not happen), take no prisoners car that was forced out of the oven a bit early because FCA was deciding whether to axe the brand at the time. Why do I think that? Because 1,700 lbs of downforce is ridiculous and FCA must have intended more HP.

The DF is so ridiculous in fact that there is nothing else that even comes close -- a Mac P1 GTR (yes, the non-street legal race-only version) produces 1,400 at the same speed; a Senna does only slight more, but only on full braking; and the Lambo SVJ does 1,100 max.

The HP part of the equation seems like a given for two more reasons -- (1) Prefix was already developing a 9L modification which then became available as an aftermarket add-on. How convenient is that? (2) Why follow up the regular ACR only 1 year later with the Extreme, and give it gobs more DF but not give it more HP to take advantage of it? That makes no sense.

I think the intended play was to introduce the ACR-E as a 2017/2018 car with something closer to a 700hp output. FCA likely intended to sell the car as a track day special, needing only slicks to take full advantage of the DF and high HP. And if that wasn't the plan, then it should have been. But with FCA deciding to shutter Viper, just getting the car out and filling as many orders as possible became the priority. I get it.

So, we were handed a legitimate race car that really only needs two things to annihilate anything out there -- power to match the insane DF, and tires.

If the SVJ can pull a 6:44 with 759 hp and 1,100 lbs. DF, then a Viper should be able to do a similar time with 9L (which has 750+whp, and about 820+ crank hp). Remember that the regular SV (lol) time around the Ring is 6:59.73. The SVJ has just 9 more hp, but has 40% more downforce than the SV (i.e. 1,100 lbs. vs. 800 lbs.) and the latest tire tech. (Yes, it also has the ALA, but I call bullshit on the level of effectiveness it really offers. Ever since the initial euphoria when the Performante came out, nobody seems to really talk anymore about ALA because Porsche showed the technology to be worthless when its similarly powered GT2RS set a faster time without any BS aero gimmicks. In other words, Porsche proved that its about HP, Tires and DF).

So, I say bring out a 9L with the best street legal tires. Let's get the tallest profile onto an 18" front so that we can maximize the air volume in the tire to keep it cool. Let's brand the effort as trying to set the fastest manual time. We do that because (a) we already own that record and thus it reminds everyone of that fact; (b) it does not look like we're trying to beat anything but our own time, so it should not offend anyone or look poorly if we do not pull a 6:44; and (c) it would be a legitimate thing that enthusiasts everywhere would be interested in seeing -- i.e. how close can a manual shift car get to the very best DCT's.

The record would thus be the fastest manual shift car on production tires. The tires alone are likely worth 5-8 seconds, and the power could be good for another 8-10 seconds. That puts us at 6:42 - 6:47, making it faster than everything but the SVJ. It would prove that that platform can beat anything out there and that the only advantage the newer cars have is HP and tires.

Frankly, I think it beats the SVJ on a production tire. And for shits and giggles, I'd bring the slicks too to really see what can be done with no holds barred. To Russ's point about set up time, I think we could dial in some preliminary settings changes here in the US between the two sets of wheels/tires and at least have some baseline to run with as soon as we pull it off the truck in Germany. In fact, I suggest doing as much testing here with the same car that will be running the Ring to give yourself as much data as possible before making the trip.

Lastly, I would not bring a standard ACR. I would stick with the ACR-E for the high DF. High DF cars are what make fast track specials. Look at Radicals, Ultimas, Riley & Scott, etc. -- all make their quick laptimes with high DF. The trick with high DF is having the tires to take advantage of it in the turns, and enough power to overcome it on the straights. With the 9L, the ACR-E is the right car. If you decide instead to bring a stock hp car, then take the non-E.

Let's do this!!!

[SRT_BluByU]

or payback the investment to those who donated..

[Ronin47]

or payback the investment to those who donated..

When you donated the money to the event, were you expecting some sort of return later on?????

[Martin]

When you donated the money to the event, were you expecting some sort of return later on?????

If we set the record, I was planning on valuating my car at about $1MM since that would put it in the ballpark of the other cars that it would have beaten.

[Bryan Savage]

Hey, I'm curious, except for Jon Bropst, how come nobody uses their real names on the boards?

Ahem.




Anyway... I say leave the 'Ring alone. The "production" car lap record is the only "level" playing field. Once you mod anything, the deal is off. Now everyone gets to mod. Without factory backing, we couldn't just mod the balls out of a car and claim "this is what Dodge was going to do". It's over. The car is out of production.

The first attempt was amazing, but proved the OEM tires aren't up to the task. I donated $2,000 to that effort and got an autographed helmet in return, which was more than I expected. I've no interest in a return of any kind from this settlement.

It is indeed a conundrum on what to do with this newfound money. Pocketing it is off the table since the cat is out of the bag. Zeus knows how much you spent out of pocket on the effort, Russ. Spending it on VOA members seems like a nice gesture, but I'm sure there were plenty of non-VOA members that donated money too. It would be unfair to rob them of any reward, but I admit, I don't know how you would reward them. Any kind of cash reward, sounds like a tax and paperwork nightmare. Using the cash to pay for some track days will only benefit those who live there, and would be a raw deal for everyone else. I know I'm not going to spend $5,000 to get my car to COTA for a free track day.

How about creating some kind of foundation, where the initial amount is invested, and the interest made by the account is used to assist VOA National? Pay for part of Viper Quarterly or administrative costs with goals of lowering VOA membership costs? We'd probably have more members if price of entry was lower.

[Scott_in_fl]

Ahem.




Anyway... I say leave the 'Ring alone. The "production" car lap record is the only "level" playing field. Once you mod anything, the deal is off. Now everyone gets to mod. Without factory backing, we couldn't just mod the balls out of a car and claim "this is what Dodge was going to do". It's over. The car is out of production.

The first attempt was amazing, but proved the OEM tires aren't up to the task. I donated $2,000 to that effort and got an autographed helmet in return, which was more than I expected. I've no interest in a return of any kind from this settlement.

It is indeed a conundrum on what to do with this newfound money. Pocketing it is off the table since the cat is out of the bag. Zeus knows how much you spent out of pocket on the effort, Russ. Spending it on VOA members seems like a nice gesture, but I'm sure there were plenty of non-VOA members that donated money too. It would be unfair to rob them of any reward, but I admit, I don't know how you would reward them. Any kind of cash reward, sounds like a tax and paperwork nightmare. Using the cash to pay for some track days will only benefit those who live there, and would be a raw deal for everyone else. I know I'm not going to spend $5,000 to get my car to COTA for a free track day.

How about creating some kind of foundation, where the initial amount is invested, and the interest made by the account is used to assist VOA National? Pay for part of Viper Quarterly or administrative costs with goals of lowering VOA membership costs? We'd probably have more members if price of entry was lower.

^^^ Bryan, I love ya, and usually agree with your analysis and humor, but I have to disagree this time. Nobody is reading Viper Quarterly. We need to consider something that puts Viper back into the limelight and reminds everyone that the car is still relevant.

With production ceased, the only way we keep Viper relevant is if the car comes around every now and then and beats some ass. Just imagine the Cars and Coffee conversations if a good Viper story were to come around again.

If not the 'Ring, then how about going and reclaiming some of the US lap records from GT2RS/720S -- VIR, Laguna come to mind? I recall everyone talking about the Ring run the first time, but that was just before the latest round of supercars were releasing (NFGT, Performante, etc.). It would just light up the forums if an ACR-E on Trofeo's came around and took Laguna back.

Of course, if that's the approach, then we need to think about whether or not the 9L is the right car to use. If I recall, the GT2RS time at Laguna is .3 seconds faster than the ACR-E, and tires should be enough to make up that difference.

At VIR, the ZR1 has the record. Let's go get it back.

With a Viper always lurking, ready to strike any record that comes along, you would see the rennlist, ferrarichat, lambopower and mclarenlife forums blowing up. R&T or Car and Driver should cover it, etc. Of course, I'd like to test at the track first to see how close we can get before inviting anyone to time it, but you get the idea.

Something like that would go a long way towards continuing the excitement about Viper and keeping it relevant among today's supercars. It would be nice to remind everyone that a Viper can get around most tracks quicker than just about anything else out there. With the high DF and tires to take advantage, it is definitely possible.