Any Fix Yet for Gen V Lazy Throttle Off Idle

[Scott_in_fl]

The one annoying aspect of these cars that seems to have carried over from Gen III/IV (and maybe worse on Gen V) is the feeling of a lazy throttle response off idle. If a car full of kids pulls up and asks for a rev, I feel like we're all waiting a few seconds for anything to really happen. The delay is much better if rpm's are 3k or more but, below that, it sucks. Why is that?

Yes, I searched a bit and found the pedal commander, etc., which are electronic gizmos that apparently add some voltage to the throttle circuit to trick the car into thinking that the pedal is pressed more than it really is.

Other than that option, is that really the only easy fix? Is there a combination of switches (i.e. traction control off) that helps?

I assume the more involved fix is a tune and/or lightened flywheel to help the engine spin up quicker?

My SRT JGC has pretty damn good throttle response, so why is it this way on our Vipers?

[camarochevy1970]

Does yours also seem worse when it is warmer? When cold I swear I have better response off idle then after I have driven it awhile

[Bryan Savage]

I assume it's just a programmed-in throttle-by-wire response. With so many torques available, there'd be way more crashes if the throttle response was instant.

[13COBRA]

TKO Motorsports swears by there kit.

https://tkomotorsports.com/product/2...ttle-response/

[ACR-ISH]

Man, I might have to try that ASAP... GEN5 Viper definitely lags coming off throttle... more than just the lighter flywheel.

[13COBRA]

Man, I might have to try that ASAP... GEN5 Viper definitely lags coming off throttle... more than just the lighter flywheel.

They say it makes a HUGE difference. They're suppose to come out with one for the Gen IVs...but I already have the Arrow PCM and light flywheel, not sure it would benefit me any.

[txA&M08]

TKO Motorsports swears by there kit.

https://tkomotorsports.com/product/2...ttle-response/

Can we stack that with an Arrow PCM or is it meant for the factory tune?

[Gen5snake]

The one annoying aspect of these cars that seems to have carried over from Gen III/IV (and maybe worse on Gen V) is the feeling of a lazy throttle response off idle. If a car full of kids pulls up and asks for a rev, I feel like we're all waiting a few seconds for anything to really happen. The delay is much better if rpm's are 3k or more but, below that, it sucks. Why is that?

Yes, I searched a bit and found the pedal commander, etc., which are electronic gizmos that apparently add some voltage to the throttle circuit to trick the car into thinking that the pedal is pressed more than it really is.

Other than that option, is that really the only easy fix? Is there a combination of switches (i.e. traction control off) that helps?

I assume the more involved fix is a tune and/or lightened flywheel to help the engine spin up quicker?

My SRT JGC has pretty damn good throttle response, so why is it this way on our Vipers?

Yes, the fix is to get a new 1st gear ratio. There's not much you're going to do to help with a 2.26:1 1st gear coupled with a 3:55.1 rear.

[1.8t]

Arrow PCM helps for sure.

[ACR-ISH]

Yes, the fix is to get a new 1st gear ratio. There's not much you're going to do to help with a 2.26:1 1st gear coupled with a 3:55.1 rear.

It's not the gearing, Snake... My car pulls HARD in first.. and all other gears. It's the tip in throttle response coming off idle (or at the bottom of any gear really). It's like driving my super duty... there's a discernible delay between throttle pedal depression and the car picking up and going... Probably a delay designed for safety, as mentioned earlier. Annoying as hell when I have to drop the clutch with 2500 rpms and I still bog a bit!

I'll be ordering this up this weekend and I'm happy to report back!

[RedTanRT/10]

Hey Scott, it’s not a G3 issue. DBW came out in G4’s.

Arrow ECU in my ‘08, then a subsequent stage 2 flash helped a lot but doesn’t eliminate it

[TrackAire]

They say it makes a HUGE difference. They're suppose to come out with one for the Gen IVs...but I already have the Arrow PCM and light flywheel, not sure it would benefit me any.

This is the one thing that I can actually say I hate about my Gen 4....the lag in throttle response, sucks when heel toe downshifting on the track. I've tried the lighter clutch/flywheel option and also the Sprint Booster throttle "enhancer". In my opinion the Sprint Booster is just a not the correct fix. It makes the throttle more reactive over a shorter distance but the off idle response still sucks. I'm still running the Mopar PCM (not the Arrow unit) and I can almost think that the car self learns the throttle position and makes the Sprint unit less effect.

Maybe TKO can chime in here and let us know if this is truly something that can make the throttle responsive off idle reactive (like a real physical throttle cable) or if it is like the Sprint Booster which to me is just a potentiometer that narrows the response over a shorter distance.

If TKO really has something that works, I'm buying it asap.

[Gen5snake]

It's not the gearing, Snake... My car pulls HARD in first.. and all other gears. It's the tip in throttle response coming off idle (or at the bottom of any gear really). It's like driving my super duty... there's a discernible delay between throttle pedal depression and the car picking up and going... Probably a delay designed for safety, as mentioned earlier. Annoying as hell when I have to drop the clutch with 2500 rpms and I still bog a bit!

I'll be ordering this up this weekend and I'm happy to report back!

Maybe we're thinking about two different things. It can pull much harder/quicker with a better gear. Most other older naturally aspirated cars like corvettes/mustangs etc come with a 2.66:1 to 2.97:1 1st gear. I know what you're saying about the tip in the throttle coming off idle, but 1st gear sucks and much more obvious when hot (when the engine is down on a little power) until you get into the torque zone. I don't know if that delay we experience when free revving it is present when it's in gear. If I cruise at 4000 rpms and I stab the throttle, there is zero delay...its lighting fast and I'm amazed of how quick the response is.

Order that piece and we'll see how it works out for you. Do a little 0-60 test. Even it did help get the throttle open quicker, I'm thinking you still have the physics issue (gearing/weight) until the engine gets into the sweet spot...that's the delay that I experience. I would have to look at the throttle map to really see whats going on.

[13COBRA]

This is the one thing that I can actually say I hate about my Gen 4....the lag in throttle response, sucks when heal toe downshifting on the track. I've tried the lighter clutch/flywheel option and also the Sprint Booster throttle "enhancer". In my opinion the Sprint Booster is just a not the correct fix. It makes the throttle more reactive over a shorter distance but the off idle response still sucks. I'm still running the Mopar PCM (not the Arrow unit) and I can almost think that the car self learns the throttle position and makes the Sprint unit less effect.

Maybe TKO can chime in here and let us know if this is truly something that can make the throttle responsive off idle reactive (like a real physical throttle cable) or if it is like the Sprint Booster which to me is just a potentiometer that narrows the response over a shorter distance.

If TKO really has something that works, I'm buying it asap.

I do not believe that it's a physical cable.

[Scott_in_fl]

Maybe we're thinking about two different things. It can pull much harder/quicker with a better gear. Most other older naturally aspirated cars like corvettes/mustangs etc come with a 2.66:1 to 2.97:1 1st gear. I know what you're saying about the tip in the throttle coming off idle, but 1st gear sucks and much more obvious when hot (when the engine is down on a little power) until you get into the torque zone. I don't know if that delay we experience when free revving it is present when it's in gear. If I cruise at 4000 rpms and I stab the throttle, there is zero delay...its lighting fast and I'm amazed of how quick the response is.

Order that piece and we'll see how it works out for you. Do a little 0-60 test. Even it did help get the throttle open quicker, I'm thinking you still have the physics issue (gearing/weight) until the engine gets into the sweet spot...that's the delay that I experience. I would have to look at the throttle map to really see whats going on.

Yes, different. I'm talking about just sitting in neutral, stabbing the throttle, and wondering for a bit when the revs will rise. Obviously, I'm not just looking for better responsiveness when sitting in neutral , but that circumstance best describes the issue.

And to CamaroChevy1970's question, I have not noticed a difference between warm and cold because I basically live on the Sun where it is never anything but hotter than hell.

[ACR-ISH]

Yes, different. I'm talking about just sitting in neutral, stabbing the throttle, and wondering for a bit when the revs will rise. Obviously, I'm not just looking for better responsiveness when sitting in neutral , but that circumstance best describes the issue.

And to CamaroChevy1970's question, I have not noticed a difference between warm and cold because I basically live on the Sun where it is never anything but hotter than hell.

Exactly. It's not how fast the car accelerates when stabbing it at 4K RPMs... it's how the long car takes to respond to the pedal being depressed from off idle to about 3k. My assumption is the throttle sensitivity is heightened up high in the REVs and muted down low on purpose, makes sense for the majority of people who drive fast cars. Most don't drive like this Viper group does.

[Jack B]

I assume it's just a programmed-in throttle-by-wire response. With so many torques available, there'd be way more crashes if the throttle response was instant.

Exactly, Winkles did an in-car tune for me after I did the Prefix H/C. We discussed throttle response. The lag was eliminated with H/C tune. That is one of the first things you will notice when you hear a free rev from a H/C car.

You can change the throttle response with HPT, however, very few tuners had success, most changes created a limp mode.

[ACR-ISH]

You can change the throttle response with HPT, however, very few tuners had success, most changes created a limp mode.

TKO is pretty confident they have it nailed with no residual issues. Any experience with them...?

[blingnoring]

what about replacing the crank pulley with the one at IPSCO?

[Bruce H.]

Exactly, Winkles did an in-car tune for me after I did the Prefix H/C. We discussed throttle response. The lag was eliminated with H/C tune. That is one of the first things you will notice when you hear a free rev from a H/C car.

You can change the throttle response with HPT, however, very few tuners had success, most changes created a limp mode.

I recall Dick telling me the throttle response was set up that way related to emissions. He explained what it was about that delay that helped but I don't recall. A different ECU or tune would not have the emissions requirement obviously.

Anyone else recall hearing the details of that?

[Jack B]

TKO is pretty confident they have it nailed with no residual issues. Any experience with them...?

Again, a lot of tuners were successful with HPT, but, the throttle response mod was not always issue free. In addition, it did not result in any performance gains, modulating the throttle results in max performance, verus WOT at low rpms, that is what the pcm does. In other words, the pcm (to a certain degree) controls the throttle, not the foot.

[TrackAire]

I do not believe that it's a physical cable.

Yup...understood that it is fly by wire and not a cable, but I want it to act like a traditional cable. It can be done, my Z06 has great throttle response and feel making heel toe shifting very precise.

It really is just programming....looking forward to hearing if TKO's system works.

[soltic]

Anyone know if the Prefix pcm corrected the issue?

Assume the Prefix unit is the old Arrow controller?

[13COBRA]

Anyone know if the Prefix pcm corrected the issue?

Assume the Prefix unit is the old Arrow controller?

When I had mine reflashed by Prefix/Arrow, it solved the vast majority of my issues with it. But then again, it might have been so much better than it was previously, that it felt fixed.

[phantomapollyon]

I'd love to hear feedback if the TKO solution significantly helps with this in the event that anyone picks it up.