Allpar C8 Corvette Debut Causes Renewed Demand for Viper Return

**commandomatt** · 08-07-2019

The people looking for a true track car represent a tiny fraction of the customer base. None of the cars in the rear engine class are pushing the track capabilities. While some may consider track performance important, most do not

I agree with the fact that there will most likely be a ton of these cars sold and that will ultimately take away some of the uniqueness. This doesn’t take away from the fact that GM has definitely made a big impact in the market with the C8. How well it will do, only time will tell

**ViperNC** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by Pappy

I watch the Corvette forum and the car is billed as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and it may be, but there is no definitive information on its performance other than the 0-60 time. It is interesting that FCA took the ACR to the track, in secret, and released performance data with the reveal. I don't think anything like that will happen with the C8. This is a cheap mass produced car (probably 30,000+ units the first year), that will be purchased mostly by folks who could care less about ultimate track performance. I see a lot of magazine reviews that tout it's looks, uniqueness, innovation, maybe even comfort, but they won't say much about raw track performance. Just show me some track times - for any of the standard U.S. tracks - and I will form an opinion. If the car has the "bones" to make a good track car I might consider buying one to gut, cage, and track. But for a daily driver I still prefer my LTZ Silverado.

Pappy

Totally agree... there is still speculation about the 0-60 as well. Some say the numbers are the base model and others say that would be the Z06 or ZL1 options. I tend to believe the latter. There is no way the base model will be sub 4 second car. Lap times will only be communicated for the top model.

**Voice of Reason** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by ViperNC

Totally agree... there is still speculation about the 0-60 as well. Some say the numbers are the base model and others say that would be the Z06 or ZL1 options. I tend to believe the latter. There is no way the base model will be sub 4 second car. Lap times will only be communicated for the top model.

I think you mean Z51, Z06 and ZL1 aren't even on the table right now. And Z51 is more of a handling package with an extra 5 Hp, if that makes more than a 0.1 sec difference in 0-60 I'll be surprised. So no, you're way off in thinking the base C8 is a 4+ sec 0-60 car.

Comparing this C8 reveal to the ACR reveal for track time purposes is also laughable. Dodge didn't debut the Gen V with a single track record, it needed a year and the TA to claim one track.

Everyone better be very careful when pulling up next to one of these at a stoplight if they have fragile egos; majority weight over the real wheels, DCT, and traction control are going to make stoplight warriors out of every New Balance jean short wearing 65 year old out there and yes stoplight to stoplight there isn't a factory Viper able to compete.

**Pappy** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I think you mean Z51, Z06 and ZL1 aren't even on the table right now. And Z51 is more of a handling package with an extra 5 Hp, if that makes more than a 0.1 sec difference in 0-60 I'll be surprised. So no, you're way off in thinking the base C8 is a 4+ sec 0-60 car.

If you look at the Z51 option sheet it includes a "performance rear gear ratio". The car is also reported to have a very low first gear, so gearing probably contributes to a sub-3 second 0-60 time for Z51 equipped cars. My old 62 Corvette with 4.56 gears and big tires was hell-on-wheels from a stoplight to the other side of the intersection. LOL The C6 Z06 was able to put down a pretty good 0-60 time for a manual transmission car because the 7000 rpm redline allowed 60 mph without a shift. I suspect the C8 will shift prior to 60 mph with its lower rpm limit, but the fast shifting DCT should be able to handle that without penalty. After watching a couple videos of purported "hard accelerations" by pre-production cars I think it will take a full-on assault with launch control to get sub-3 second times - probably won't see many 65 year-olds doing that at a stop light....and his fully optioned 3LZ will probably weight in at over 3700#.

Cheers

Pappy

**commandomatt** · 08-07-2019

Y

Originally Posted by Pappy

After watching a couple videos of purported "hard accelerations" by pre-production cars I think it will take a full-on assault with launch control to get sub-3 second times - probably won't see many 65 year-olds doing that at a stop light....and his fully optioned 3LZ will probably weight in at over 3700#.

Cheers

Pappy

....and how many Viper drivers can get close to the 0-60 posted times ?

**Scott_in_fl** · 08-07-2019

Agree that supercar buyers are more interested in looks and exclusivity than Ring times these days. I think they all realize sooner or later that the "fastest" car is only the fastest until a new tire comes out, or some computer learns the track better, or an electric drivetrain comes around.

**Pappy** · 08-07-2019

I am being a little narrow in my thinking. I don't own stock in GM so I am not overly concerned with their marketing decisions, other than survivability of the platform's program so parts will continue to be available. I don't care if the car appeals to the masses with different expectations, although that is how you sell cars in quantity. I am personally just looking for something with exceptional track performance POTENTIAL - something I can modify if necessary to extract the highest level of performance. I baby my ACR a bit so I am not getting the most performance out of it, and I will keep it forever. However, the C8 is so cheap I would not hesitate to modify it and beat the crap out of it. I am just waiting to see if it has any inherent, insurmountable weaknesses. GM has not really given a lot of performance info other than weight (200# heavier than the base C7), downforce (400# at speed), and the 0-60 time. I would have thought they would have put their own pro drivers in the car for performance testing and subsequent release of info to the public rather than waiting for the magazine jockeys to guide public opinion. The Ron Fellows school at Spring Mountain is getting cars for dealer orientation classes in Oct so maybe we will start getting some real data soon.

Pappy

**Arizona Vipers** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I think you mean Z51, Z06 and ZL1 aren't even on the table right now. And Z51 is more of a handling package with an extra 5 Hp, if that makes more than a 0.1 sec difference in 0-60 I'll be surprised. So no, you're way off in thinking the base C8 is a 4+ sec 0-60 car.

Comparing this C8 reveal to the ACR reveal for track time purposes is also laughable. Dodge didn't debut the Gen V with a single track record, it needed a year and the TA to claim one track.

Everyone better be very careful when pulling up next to one of these at a stoplight if they have fragile egos; majority weight over the real wheels, DCT, and traction control are going to make stoplight warriors out of every New Balance jean short wearing 65 year old out there and yes stoplight to stoplight there isn't a factory Viper able to compete.

It's not the 5hp that give a Z51 car better off the line acceleration, it's stickier tires and gearing. This won't affect trap speeds so doesn't really matter. It just sells the car via the magazines, one thing Viper stopped doing a looooong time ago when acceleration numbers became "slow" compared to everything with a DCT

**viperBase1** · 08-07-2019

I feel like talkin' some smack.

Originally Posted by voice of reason

Everyone better be very careful when pulling up next to one of these at a stoplight if they have fragile egos; majority weight over the real wheels, DCT, and traction control are going to make stoplight warriors out of every New Balance jean short wearing 65 year old out there and yes stoplight to stoplight there isn't a factory Viper able to compete.

With the base Stingray?

I can hardly wait!
I'll leave 'em spinning their wheels in a fit.

Just like I've done with a number of C7s.
I think they had Traction Control..a lot of good it did 'em.

It'll be a cloud of tire smoke and burn from those poor dual clutches having the living crap beat out of 'em by the AFM (Automatic Fuel Management system).
N' then they'll probably slide off the road somewhere with the transmission pre-loading gears in both directions +/- back and forth.

Originally Posted by commandomatt

...and how many Viper drivers can get close to the 0-60 posted times ?

My car did 0-60 in 1.58 seconds..
traptik.PNG
Oh wait.. that was 60 feet.

Hey for all we know thats what they're talking about in the marketing hype. I keep seeing "0-60" everywhere, don't recall seeing "mph" being stipulated.

I can definitely get to 60mph in 1st gear. 2nd gear they're toast!
Off the line, I've given a couple of motorcycle cafe racer dudes a serious run for their money.

Originally Posted by Pappy

.. After watching a couple videos of purported "hard accelerations" by pre-production cars I think it will take a full-on assault with launch control to get sub-3 second times - probably won't see many 65 year-olds doing that at a stop light....and his fully optioned 3LZ will probably weight in at over 3700#.

N' that 3LT Z51 w/Performance Pkg will cost AT LEAST $80K. Which still ain't too bad.

Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers

It's not the 5hp that give a Z51 car better off the line acceleration, it's stickier tires and gearing.

Exactly. Tires and other conditions just right.

That was fun.

**ViperNC** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I think you mean Z51, Z06 and ZL1 aren't even on the table right now. And Z51 is more of a handling package with an extra 5 Hp, if that makes more than a 0.1 sec difference in 0-60 I'll be surprised. So no, you're way off in thinking the base C8 is a 4+ sec 0-60 car.

Comparing this C8 reveal to the ACR reveal for track time purposes is also laughable. Dodge didn't debut the Gen V with a single track record, it needed a year and the TA to claim one track.

Everyone better be very careful when pulling up next to one of these at a stoplight if they have fragile egos; majority weight over the real wheels, DCT, and traction control are going to make stoplight warriors out of every New Balance jean short wearing 65 year old out there and yes stoplight to stoplight there isn't a factory Viper able to compete.

I'll admit I don't know my Vette terminology that well. With that said, if a base model no upgrade C8 Corvette with the base model tires, gearing, etc can do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds I'll stand corrected. I'm talking real world repeatable 0-60 times. I think it is going to require a higher price point for a buyer of a C8 to get the 0-60 times they are advertising. Otherwise why would someone pay that much more for the Z51, Z06, or ZL1 for similar performance? Maybe I'm wrong... guess we'll see.

**Bryan Savage** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by ViperNC

I'll admit I don't know my Vette terminology that well. With that said, if a base model no upgrade C8 Corvette with the base model tires, gearing, etc can do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds I'll stand corrected. I'm talking real world repeatable 0-60 times. I think it is going to require a higher price point for a buyer of a C8 to get the 0-60 times they are advertising. Otherwise why would someone pay that much more for the Z51, Z06, or ZL1 for similar performance? Maybe I'm wrong... guess we'll see.

On the same page... has anyone ever, besides Dodge, got a Demon to wheelie?

**catwood** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by Bryan Savage

On the same page... has anyone ever, besides Dodge, got a Demon to wheelie?

without shattering the rear end......no, don't think so......

**serpent** · 08-07-2019

Originally Posted by kriskyk

There are in the bay area and especially in relation to the total number of Gen V vipers produced

Nope, this is the most expensive place to live in the US. A small 1000sq ft home can sell for 1 mil plus, several mil if next to stanford or anywhere in the peninsula.

I went to a VOA cruise last year, I was the youngest at 34. I believe the next youngest guy is in his 40s. People in the Bay Area either have a large mortgage to pay or commute far and live out in the boonies. Those that can afford a 1mil plus home and a 100k toy were either lucky or are very smart with their money. Luck could be rich parents or great timing at a company.
I don’t have rich parents.

**EZ 2B Green** · 08-07-2019

My local Chevrolet dealer had a preproduction C8 on display today and the showroom was mobbed. I can't say I saw many younger folks in the crowd. Most of the people there looked like they were retired. The saddest part was I saw our immediate past Viper Club President there in a Corvette T-Shirt oogling the car. When I saw him he ducked in shame.

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