Allpar C8 Corvette Debut Causes Renewed Demand for Viper Return

[J TNT]

That would be "Squid".

That too, think I know a few ............lol !!!

[ViperSmith]

A rehash of the last 5 Viper generations will be another dud and dead on arrival. If Dodge isn't going to do something radical with the Viper, then let it die.

A Gen 5.5 will be met with more yawns.

The "It needs to be a manual V10" crowd didn't run and purchase the Gen V in volumes, so their opinions are worth exactly $0.

[ViperSmith]

It's literally a case study on how not to introduce a new generation. From the abysmal early quality control that has never been even acknowledged by the manufacturer to the completely inept service departments at most dealerships owning a Gen V viper has been a challenge that a 100K+ car should never have to suffer. And now, in a grand gesture to the loyal customers who paid big money to own the discontinued "flagship" car they are doing all they can to avoid warranty claims on issues they KNOW were present from the beginning by using some obscure technicality like your oil wasn't changed every six months. Despicable.

Let's not forget Dodge also prioritized getting customer order cars out AFTER dealer ordered cars. I got to sit and wait for my 2013 to be built - 4 months after my local dealer got theirs, threw a $50,000 ADM on it, and ended up not selling it for over a year.

I love Ralph, but Ralph and team entirely dropped the ball on the Gen V roll out.

[Whitemamba]

Or, if you don't want to build a mid engine Viper, (to me it would look like we're following and not leading), put this into production:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsuwQKy_ivs

Just tweak the side scoop, rear lights and put in an interior loosely based on the Viper genV.

That car was in a league all of it's own. No telling where we would be if they had built it.

[Whitemamba]

A rehash of the last 5 Viper generations will be another dud and dead on arrival. If Dodge isn't going to do something radical with the Viper, then let it die.

A Gen 5.5 will be met with more yawns.

The "It needs to be a manual V10" crowd didn't run and purchase the Gen V in volumes, so their opinions are worth exactly $0.

So true.

[dewilmoth]

That car was in a league all of it's own. No telling where we would be if they had built it.

Totally forgot about that concept, what a gorgeous car. Looks like it could have been designed yesterday, and it

[Larryskillzs]

The new Viper will be an E car with no gears....

Let it go fellas. Technology and regulation will not let a V10 6 speed be ever built again like the Viper we know and love

Cherish your Gen 5, its super special!

[EZ 2B Green]

Our community, as is the Corvette community, is ageing. GM tried to appeal to a new generation of buyers with the C7 and in my opinion failed. Fortunately, the tried and true (middle aged +) Corvette buyers bought the C7 anyway. GM understands the demographic of Corvette buyers (they are dying off). The C8 is a last ditch attempt to save the Corvette mark. My observation is that the Viper owners in general are younger than Corvette owners. However, the Viper owner base is also getting older.
This means that any potential new generation of Viper needs to appeal to a different demographic or it will be doomed for failure (not enough buyers from the current generations of Viper buyers remaining as we age out).
Given the above, what we want is not on the table. Any new Generation Viper will have to be radically different to appeal to younger buyers and kick start the passion just as it did in 1992. If this is not in the cards, then it is best that the Viper died in glory in 2017. My .02.

[Hathoway]

Most everything is moving to digital. Many youth only care what they see on their screens and the immediacy of their senses for little $. Cars don't really fit in that equation with easy local transportation, buses, trains, electric scooters. Youth don't care for cars like the generations of old.

[ViperJon]

Let's not forget Dodge also prioritized getting customer order cars out AFTER dealer ordered cars. I got to sit and wait for my 2013 to be built - 4 months after my local dealer got theirs, threw a $50,000 ADM on it, and ended up not selling it for over a year.

I love Ralph, but Ralph and team entirely dropped the ball on the Gen V roll out.

Ah memories. Remember the comforting feeling you got knowing there is a Viper CERTIFIED tech at the Dodge dealer down the road and he was factory trained in fixing Vipers and SRT vehicles. In fact the dealership had to pay (was it 10k?) to be able to say they had a certified tech. Viper apologists who say "you should have researched the dealerships in your area before buying" seem to have forgotten this. Dodge was seeing to it the dealership experience was going to be greattttttt no matter where you went. Good times.

[TheLoRyder]

Driving the old family SUV today back from my local mall and I was just thinking about the discussion in this thread. How GM stated that they were forced to go mid-engined because they had reached the limits of front-engine performance.

So why not a Viper with the engine still front-mid mounted, BUT all wheel drive? Electric motors at the front to boost HP?

Sure it won't be the pure driver's car we all know and love, but it would be embracing technology to keep the Viper performance competitive.

The GT-R gets away with a front mounted motor and 0-60mph in what? 2.8s?

The batteries could be located in the rear of the car to balance the weight. Have the "Viper" closer to a 48/52 or 47/53 weight balance that's physically desirable.

[SRT_BluByU]

Our community, as is the Corvette community, is ageing. GM tried to appeal to a new generation of buyers with the C7 and in my opinion failed. Fortunately, the tried and true (middle aged +) Corvette buyers bought the C7 anyway. GM understands the demographic of Corvette buyers (they are dying off). The C8 is a last ditch attempt to save the Corvette mark. My observation is that the Viper owners in general are younger than Corvette owners. However, the Viper owner base is also getting older.
This means that any potential new generation of Viper needs to appeal to a different demographic or it will be doomed for failure (not enough buyers from the current generations of Viper buyers remaining as we age out).
Given the above, what we want is not on the table. Any new Generation Viper will have to be radically different to appeal to younger buyers and kick start the passion just as it did in 1992. If this is not in the cards, then it is best that the Viper died in glory in 2017. My .02.

I dont agree with this concerning the demographics.. ive been hearing that since at least the late 80's concerning the corvettes and here we are 30 years later.. seems to me its jsut a case of folks tend to be a little more financially comfortable at a certian point in life soe more buyers of that demographic take on a purchase like Corvette or Viper. The recession that felt like a decade had a big impact and some folks are just working there way out of it..

[commandomatt]

9

I dont agree with this concerning the demographics.. ive been hearing that since at least the late 80's concerning the corvettes and here we are 30 years later.. seems to me its jsut a case of folks tend to be a little more financially comfortable at a certian point in life soe more buyers of that demographic take on a purchase like Corvette or Viper. The recession that felt like a decade had a big impact and some folks are just working there way out of it..

I agree with this. Average age for the vette owners is probably the same today as it’s been over the last several decades.

I also believe that older owners are often more inclined to stick with certain brands and models over time. Younger people are likely to change due to their situations (marriage, house, kids, careers etc) as they get older. Having a disposable income is certainly more likely among the older crowd. It may be a better target group for a manufacturer when it comes to these performance cars

[Old School]

I dont agree with this concerning the demographics.. ive been hearing that since at least the late 80's concerning the corvettes and here we are 30 years later.. seems to me its jsut a case of folks tend to be a little more financially comfortable at a certian point in life soe more buyers of that demographic take on a purchase like Corvette or Viper. The recession that felt like a decade had a big impact and some folks are just working there way out of it..

I agree with this. Average age for the vette owners is probably the same today as it’s been over the last several decades.

I also believe that older owners are often more inclined to stick with certain brands and models over time. Younger people are likely to change due to their situations (marriage, house, kids, careers etc) as they get older. Having A disposable income is certainly more likely among the older crowd. It may be a better target group for a manufacturer when it comes to these performance cars

I agree. I also have to say, easily 80% of the people who compliment my Viper are around 20 years old.

[USAFPILOT]

It isn't that a 20something doesn't want a Viper or Corvette, but the Vast majority of people in that age group are not in the market for an expensive vehicle. Even a sub 60,000 dollar car is a huge expense for someone starting their life out in their first job, that needs a house, is beginning a family etc. Thus, the reason for so many "old dudes" buying these cars. If GM or Dodge wants to market something to the younger crowd, it has to be cheap and possibly practical. Especially if the company wants to profit from the venture. Guys like me/us are the exception; and there just probably isn't enough of us.

I bought my first used Corvette at 25...I was a new Air Force Capt. at the time, couldn't afford the C6 and a Viper of any kind was out of reach. Since then I've owned 4 Vettes, some I had to sell when the kids were born. I've dabbled with some other vehicles, trucks and a Pontiac G8, Honda Civic SI and most notably a 2016 Hellcat I bought new. The Hellcat is actually a perfect car for a young Family guy with performance in mind. But, last year at 39, I bought my first first Viper, a pre owned 2015 GT. It is the most expensive and most outrageous vehicle I've ever purchased, which I really have no need for. I'm not sure if at 40yo I am the "Old" man or not, but I can hardly justify owning this car, yet I do, because I am hooked on cars like others get hooked on drugs.

The next cars I buy will be for my kids. So the next time I get around to buying something for myself will be a long time from now. I'll probably be pushing 50. Hopefully a new Viper will be out by then...or I may be forced back into the Corvette Crowd, or worse. I've been thinking about a 911 Turbo S a lot lately. C8 is only the beginning for GM and the mid engine Vette though. They will only get better.

[Scott_in_fl]

It isn't that a 20something doesn't want a Viper or Corvette, but the Vast majority of people in that age group are not in the market for an expensive vehicle. Even a sub 60,000 dollar car is a huge expense for someone starting their life out in their first job, that needs a house, is beginning a family etc. Thus, the reason for so many "old dudes" buying these cars. If GM or Dodge wants to market something to the younger crowd, it has to be cheap and possibly practical. Especially if the company wants to profit from the venture. Guys like me/us are the exception; and there just probably isn't enough of us.

I bought my first used Corvette at 25...I was a new Air Force Capt. at the time, couldn't afford the C6 and a Viper of any kind was out of reach. Since then I've owned 4 Vettes, some I had to sell when the kids were born. I've dabbled with some other vehicles, trucks and a Pontiac G8, Honda Civic SI and most notably a 2016 Hellcat I bought new. The Hellcat is actually a perfect car for a young Family guy with performance in mind. But, last year at 39, I bought my first first Viper, a pre owned 2015 GT. It is the most expensive and most outrageous vehicle I've ever purchased, which I really have no need for. I'm not sure if at 40yo I am the "Old" man or not, but I can hardly justify owning this car, yet I do, because I am hooked on cars like others get hooked on drugs.

The next cars I buy will be for my kids. So the next time I get around to buying something for myself will be a long time from now. I'll probably be pushing 50. Hopefully a new Viper will be out by then...or I may be forced back into the Corvette Crowd, or worse. I've been thinking about a 911 Turbo S a lot lately. C8 is only the beginning for GM and the mid engine Vette though. They will only get better.

Don't underestimate the earning power of the younger generations. What they will make over their lifetimes will blow ours away by leaps and bounds. I have friends with kids getting jobs out of college that are paying very, very good money. Also, the earning power of social media and all that entails is enormous and only the tip of the iceberg for kids these days. It is not uncommon to see vloggers, bloggers, etc. making millions. It is a different economy and will continue to expand in ways previously unimaginable. This nonsense of millennials living at home, or living in shipping containers, is a media punchline. Don't believe the hype. The younger generations will be able to afford $100k vehicles without a problem once they are into their 30's and 40's. Need proof? Just look at where MFG's are moving their price points. Are vehicles getting cheaper, or more expensive? Are homes being built getting cheaper or more expensive?

[Bill Pemberton]

Kind of funny this conversation is coming up , as Scott in Fl. is not far from wrong , history is just repeating itself in my mind. Back around 2000 to 2003 a bunch of young guys were calling us wanting to get Vipers. Surprisingly their biggest problem was getting businesses to take them seriously , and luckily they heard about a Dealer in a small town in Nebraska. The nice thing when one makes a phone call is no one knows how tall you are, what your religion is, your age, your ethnic background, etc. so one isn't encumbered by a bunch of goofy biases. Amazingly many of these younger individuals actually did buy Vipers, and they did not have to come in with their fathers or mothers to acquire the machine, they just financed it on their own, and loved the fact that there was no ADM at Woodhouse. The reason Scott's note rings so true is many of these young folks were employed by a company called Microsoft , or something of that nature, and they were making a very favorable salary. Sure some worked for other companies like Boeing , Amgen, Yahoo, etc. and today some of those young people are ......................................Vice Presidents, Presidents, Upper Level Engineers, etc. The best part is many still buy from Woodhouse, and with soon to be 20 Stores that is a blessing for us. Don't fall in the trap that age, ethnicity or any other things may hinder a purchase, keep an open mind and realize change is a constant and many of each younger generation fool their elders -------heck , we did, ha,ha!! ( Our parents all thought we would be hippies and never amount to anything in their minds).

[SRT_BluByU]

I dont think anyone is suggesting 20 somethings (younger generations) cant or dont buy these things... i think the thought is the rhetoric that the Corvette or Viper (any sportcar) buyers are aging and dying out might be a bit overstated. But its likely the more established demographic might be a higher proportion of the buying public as opportunity costs dwindle.

[serpent]

Don't underestimate the earning power of the younger generations. What they will make over their lifetimes will blow ours away by leaps and bounds. I have friends with kids getting jobs out of college that are paying very, very good money. Also, the earning power of social media and all that entails is enormous and only the tip of the iceberg for kids these days. It is not uncommon to see vloggers, bloggers, etc. making millions. It is a different economy and will continue to expand in ways previously unimaginable. This nonsense of millennials living at home, or living in shipping containers, is a media punchline. Don't believe the hype. The younger generations will be able to afford $100k vehicles without a problem once they are into their 30's and 40's. Need proof? Just look at where MFG's are moving their price points. Are vehicles getting cheaper, or more expensive? Are homes being built getting cheaper or more expensive?

Believe the hype, everything is expensive af now a days. In the bay area you will need to be in a dual income house hold to afford a $1mil home.

How am I able to afford an $80k+ car living in the bay area? I live with my brothers and split the mortgage 3-way.

You also cannot use vloggers/bloggers or social media as an example, this is like the 1 percent. Almost like saying all racecar drivers are rich, and using lewis hamilton as an example. There are tons of bloggers, but only a small percentage are making it.

[Scott_in_fl]

Believe the hype, everything is expensive af now a days. In the bay area you will need to be in a dual income house hold to afford a $1mil home.

How am I able to afford an $80k+ car living in the bay area? I live with my brothers and split the mortgage 3-way.

You also cannot use vloggers/bloggers or social media as an example, this is like the 1 percent. Almost like saying all racecar drivers are rich, and using lewis hamilton as an example. There are tons of bloggers, but only a small percentage are making it.

True, but look at the magnitude of areas where "new money" is being made. vloggers is just one part of social media. The tentacles that grow off from social media and are specific to it are numerous -- advertising, sales, app development, etc., etc. Lots of people are earning a good income creating or facilitating social media.

Other areas are seeing renaissance periods of growth. Look at sports. When I was younger, who would've thunk it that soccer players would be the highest paid athletes, or that cyclists would make $5m to ride a bicycle??? Today, it's not uncommon for swimmers, MMA fighters, fisherman, and tons of others to make great money. Let's face it, we love to watch competition and we all have different interests. The jobs and money that spins off these days from each of these "sports" and dare I say it.... now "e-sports"... is astounding.

The point is that it's no longer about trying to get a job with GE, or Proctor and Gamble out of school and hope to make your career there. Those companies are all dinosaurs today, slowly dying off into extinction. We cannot say that everyone is going to be poor because those jobs are going away. Rather, the new economy is largely a shadow economy, with money being made with a computer in someone's living room, or with an app on an iPhone. But the way we know this is happening is to see whether people are still buying things, and what they are buying. If the only company doing well was Dollar Tree, then I'd believe that we're screwed. But that's not what I'm seeing when I travel. I see amazing homes being built, luxury condominiums crowding the skylines, and the prices of new cars going up each year (pick up trucks for $100k is not unusual, which blows me away!!). So, the money's out there. And the younger generations are helping to drive that.

[J TNT]

Read a survey last year and 18 to 25 year olds were asked " Would you Go with out your car or Go with out your cell phone ???"
A Very High percentage said they would rather Go with out their car, than Go with out a cell phone...........

[Bill Pemberton]

One of the problems we all catch ourselves at is listening to a survey and thinking that explains a whole arena? The issue is few question the surveys, if they were statistically sound, covered a wide spectrum of the Country and had a blend of various ethnic and socio-economic groups? Only reason I bring this up is what may be prevalent in one part of the US , may not be the situation in another. Get a group of 18-25 year olds in major cities in California and they likely will have a different perspective than the same age group in the Midwest? Bring this up as our Sales at most of our Stores ( four of our Stores are brand new ) are way up and we are seeing plenty of younger buyers, and no statistically we have not surveyed this except with dollars spent. Another observation ( probably a better word ) is we are seeing a bunch of millennials coming to the Nebraska Region SCCA autocrosses. This past Sunday the largest group was the Novice Class and all 16 were in that generational spectrum - and these are car guys!!

Similar situation with housing , income levels and purchase of vehicles , the amount spent for rent or a home in many parts of the Country is half to a fourth what it is in some Metro areas ( or States like California ) , so a new car in the 60s may be more palatable............heck we see younger buyers all day long buying 60K trucks.

Easy to quantify buyers , regardless of age , based on where they live , but many articles are semi tilted toward large metro areas and there is a distinct lack of awareness of what happens in many less populated areas -- just my humble opinion, nothing more. I just think we , as humans, often get caught , today, in our flood of easy information and we do not question things anywhere as much as in the past?

[ViperNC]

Back on topic: Saw an article yesterday whereby the C8 is virtually sold out for the 2020 model.

[Bill Pemberton]

Likely the same bogus information FCA used on the Viper, Ford on a couple of machines, etc. If the Dealers take all their allocation they say the car is sold out, while there have not even paired them all up with actual buyers. I know our Chevy Store got a large allocation , but we have not completely sold out, yet ( very close ). There are likely more available than the article describes since Manufacturers now state a sold out model based on Dealer acceptance of their allocation.

[Angleiron]

Likely the same bogus information FCA used on the Viper, Ford on a couple of machines, etc. If the Dealers take all their allocation they say the car is sold out, while there have not even paired them all up with actual buyers. I know our Chevy Store got a large allocation , but we have not completely sold out, yet ( very close ). There are likely more available than the article describes since Manufacturers now state a sold out model based on Dealer acceptance of their allocation.

a LOT of C7's available with discounts from the blurbs I read.