Allpar C8 Corvette Debut Causes Renewed Demand for Viper Return

**Bryan Savage** · 11-01-2019

Back on Page 3, my rant about FCA's-then 5-year plan didn't leave any room for a Gen VI Viper.

But now...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...elled-fca-psa/

Shortly before his passing last year, Fiat Chrysler boss Sergio Marchionne announced big plans for Alfa Romeo. There'd be new crossovers, yes, but much more exciting was the confirmation that the GTV would return as a 600-hp all-wheel drive coupe, and a 700-hp mid-engine 8C, both hybrids. The stuff of dreams for Alfa fans. But now that FCA intends to merge with Groupe PSA, the owner of Peugeot, the GTV and 8C's futures are in doubt.

Current FCA CEO Mike Manley said on a conference call that "in the near term, the new portfolio for the brand is significantly scaled back with a corresponding reduction in capital spending," Motor Trend reports.

While Manley isn't quoted as saying what that means specifically, Motor Trend says "previous plans for more sedans and sports cars have been shelved." The Giulia sedan and Stelvio crossover will continue, and both will soon be joined by the smaller Tonale crossover and another high-rider.

One of the primary motivations for FCA and PSA to merge is for both companies to reduce spending on future product development. Inevitably that means more platforms will be shared between the two, and the total number of platforms will be reduced. Manley told Motor Trend that the Giorgio platform that underpins the Giulia and Stelvio will likely continue on, as it's one of the few rear-drive architectures in the new group.

While Alfa's future looks far less interesting than it did this time last year, things are looking up for Maserati. Motor Trend reports that a Ghibli plug-in hybrid is due in the coming months, and the Alfieri will arrive to replace the old Granturismo by the end of 2020. The Alfieri will be available in both a plug-in hybrid and full-electric forms, and a Levante EV is also in the works.

We've reached out to an Alfa Romeo spokesperson for more confirmation on these developments, and will update this post if we hear back.

We'll just see what this means, but it's going to take a while for the merger to solidify and all parties to find their place.

**CNU_Physics** · 11-02-2019

What a shame about the Alfa coupe, looked sexy as hell. Im looking forward to seeing the Maserati Alfieri though. That thing has been a concept forever lol.

**Scott_in_fl** · 11-02-2019

The only thing I got out of that article is that there is no budget for the development of any new sports cars. The C8 sucked the wind out of the room at many mfg's -- not just FCA.

**Whiskey** · 11-06-2019

Use an updated version of the gen5 chassis in Aluminum and use the 800hp red-eye motor as a base and the

**Voice of Reason** · 11-07-2019

Weird, they misspelled mid 5s for the base car?!?!

https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us...-corvette.html

**blaked21** · 11-07-2019

The FCA announcement is discouraging. I traded in my SRT Grand Cherokee for the Stelvio Quad a few months ago and holy hell. The Quad corners like crazy for an SUV and puts a smile on my face anytime I punch it (0-60 in 3.6 stock is my best time so far). It does have some downside with interior build quality, size and the exhaust note is fun but I prefer the deep rumble of higher displacement. I was really looking forward to them rolling out more sports cars since I'm overly impressed with the Stelvio Quad's driving abilities.

**viperBase1** · 11-08-2019

In other news.

GM FINALLY announced the affect of the UAW Strike on delivery dates for the C8.
They estimate they won't begin building the C8's until Feb. 2020.

There's news articles out there covering the press release.
More yawning..

**SharpMan** · 11-08-2019

Originally Posted by blaked21

The FCA announcement is discouraging. I traded in my SRT Grand Cherokee for the Stelvio Quad a few months ago and holy hell. The Quad corners like crazy for an SUV and puts a smile on my face anytime I punch it (0-60 in 3.6 stock is my best time so far). It does have some downside with interior build quality, size and the exhaust note is fun but I prefer the deep rumble of higher displacement. I was really looking forward to them rolling out more sports cars since I'm overly impressed with the Stelvio Quad's driving abilities.

I have a Stelvio Quadrifoglio as a daily too...mental car!IMG_3911.jpg

**Clutch2014** · 11-10-2019

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Use an updated version of the gen5 chassis in Aluminum and use the 800hp red-eye motor as a base and the

NO.

If any variant of the Apache engine makes it into a Gen VI, it'll be a clear sign that they didn't give a rat's rear end about actually developing the car.

**Bryan Savage** · 11-11-2019

The 8C and GTV are now dead, according to this Autoweek article.

The GTV seemed the most likely of the 5-year-plan vehicles to be built, and also most likely to be occupying the space a Viper could sit.

Does this mean there's now an open slot for a Gen VI?

https://autoweek.com/article/car-new...s-are-now-dead

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Last month's surprise announcement of a merger between Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) and PSA Group, composed of Peugeot, Citroen and Opel/Vauxhall, brought with it fresh fears of a house cleaning as the newly created automaker could tighten its belt and shed unprofitable divisions. The same week the merger was announced Alfa Romeo had reportedly axed two planned sports cars, which were part of a five-year plan announced just over a year ago.

Plans to cut the 8C halo car and the GTV coupe have now been confirmed, Automotive News reports, adding that plans for a large SUV that was also in the works have been scrapped as well.

The planned 8C halo car was announced as part of the marque's five-year plan, revealed in the summer of 2018, and was planned to feature a twin-turbo midengine layout with electric boost at the front axle, serving up at least 700 hp. The GTV was planned as a sportier, more powerful version of the Giulia sedan, and would have also featured electric boost.

The new business entity created by the merger, now the fourth largest automaker in the world, is still expected to eliminate redundancies in its global operations to become leaner, but this won't include putting underperforming brands out to pasture, PSA CEO Carlos Tavares told the French TV station BFM Business according to Automotive News Europe.

"I see that all these brands, without exception, have one thing in common: they have a fabulous history," Tavares told BFM Business, according to Automotive News Europe. "We love the history of car brands, it gives us a foundation on which we can project ourselves into the future. So today, I don't see any need, if this deal is concluded, to remove brands because they all have their history and they all have their strengths."

But Tavares did not rule out job cuts, pointing out that such steps are common in automotive industry mergers. But he did not indicate where those job cuts could come from as the two auto giants seek to capture billions in cost savings. Specifically, 3.7 billion euros or $4.09 billion annually, Automotive News Europe notes.

To be sure, the global FCA lineup has faced a number of challenges in the past several years, which is what led former FCA boss Sergio Marchionne to seek out mergers with other automakers for much of the decade in order to share development costs and platforms. It's no secret that out of the two auto giants, it is FCA that has a greater share of older platforms in its brands' lineups, tallied from the time of their introduction, and arguably faces greater headwinds in North America, its main market that accounts for two-thirds of its revenue, than PSA does in Europe.

One of the main promises of the merger, according to industry observers, would be FCA's access to PSA platforms and development for its global offerings, as well as greater market share in Europe, while PSA will gain access to the North American market, which it has eyed for some time. FCA is also expected to improve its European operations with PSA's help, where it has faced challenges in recent years.

PSA is coming off fresh from the purchase of Opel and Vauxhall from General Motors just two years ago, one that has been met with optimism, but it remains to be seen how PSA handles a much larger merger.

**Bryan Savage** · 11-19-2019

Just saw this article from Westley Wren on Autoweek:

https://autoweek.com/article/rumor-m...-chrysler-fold

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The straight-six seems to be making a comeback: Chevrolet, Jaguar Land Rover and Mercedes-Benz have all brought versions back to the production line. And now it looks like the next company to jump back into the inline-engine world could be Fiat-Chrysler - at least if this patent drawing is accurate.

According to sources that spoke with Mopar Insiders, the possible upcoming straight-six could start around 360 hp and have 525 hp in performance applications. The high-output variant could fill the hole left by the apparently shelved 7.0-liter Hemi V8.

Adding some credibility to its source's claims, a patent issued earlier this year for an exhaust-gas recovery system on a turbocharged engine features an inline-six engine in the diagram. The patent issued to Fiat-Chrysler could be using the straight-six as a stand-in, but it's likely that the system is designed with this I6 in mind.

Assuming that this engine will be based on the Fiat-Chrysler Global Medium Engine architecture and its recently released 2.0-liter inline-four, we expect that the new straight-six will displace about three liters. Like we learned from the folks that engineered the V10-powered Ford Mustang, adding extra cylinders to an engine isn't always as hard as it sounds.

The new engine could also use Fiat-Chrysler's upcoming E-Booster, which helps turbocharged engines quickly build boost to help eliminate turbo lag. According to sources that spoke with Mopar Insiders, this could help Fiat-Chrysler to use larger turbochargers that traditionally take more time to generate boost.

Chrysler has historically done well with six-cylinder engines, and there is plenty of historic branding to revive. I think a 525-hp inline-six dubbed "Hyper Pak" has a good ring to it.

Personally, I don't mind if FCA uses this to cram some horses into some sweet vehicles. "Hemi" only describes the shape of a combustion chamber, technically, so you could have a Hemi-Six.

**Scott_in_fl** · 11-19-2019

I will say it again.... the C8 has sucked the wind out of the room everywhere. I've now seen the car in person and it is game over for everything from the newly launched GT500 (and I love that car), to the P911 (and I love that car too), to Supra, BMW 3, etc., etc., etc. Basically, any two-door sporty or sports car priced near the $50k to $100k realm is in for a rude awakening.

What GM has done for sub $60k is literally unbelievable and no other MFG has the scale to realistically compete (but for maybe Toyota, but they're not really interested in that segment it seems). Others can build a similar or better car, but they cannot sell it for what GM can.

The point is, that I think we need to come the realization that FCA (of all people) is not going to be chasing that segment any time soon.

If FCA wants to go after the $150k segment, and produce a genuine halo bad-ass that looks like an Aston Vulcan or something even wilder (and more $$$) like the NFGT, then they may have a play. But at the $60k-$70k level, I worry that we can even save our current Hellcats from the forthcoming C8 market crush.

**ddlesk06** · 11-19-2019

Originally Posted by Scott_in_fl

I will say it again.... the C8 has sucked the wind out of the room everywhere. I've now seen the car in person and it is game over for everything from the newly launched GT500 (and I love that car), to the P911 (and I love that car too), to Supra, BMW 3, etc., etc., etc. Basically, any two-door sporty or sports car priced near the $50k to $100k realm is in for a rude awakening.

What GM has done for sub $60k is literally unbelievable and no other MFG has the scale to realistically compete (but for maybe Toyota, but they're not really interested in that segment it seems). Others can build a similar or better car, but they cannot sell it for what GM can.

The point is, that I think we need to come the realization that FCA (of all people) is not going to be chasing that segment any time soon.

If FCA wants to go after the $150k segment, and produce a genuine halo bad-ass that looks like an Aston Vulcan or something even wilder (and more $$$) like the NFGT, then they may have a play. But at the $60k-$70k level, I worry that we can even save our current Hellcats from the forthcoming C8 market crush.

this

Bruce H. · 11-19-2019

Not sure much has really changed from 2014 when the C7 came out as a bargain performance car. Some new interest and excitement that it's now mid engine but the fundamental arguments for, and against, the Corvette have not changed at all that I can see.

**Bryan Savage** · 11-21-2019

I've kind of morphed this thread into a "what's next for FCA that could possibly be Viper-related" thread, since a Gen VI would have to find a place to slot into PSA-FCA's lineup.

Here's a new article from Road & Track.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...xotic-pictures

Maserati Mid Engine.jpg

Maserati released a handful of pictures showing its newest camouflaged prototype car, which it says is being used as a powertrain mule to test a new engine that is '100-percent' Maserati.

The car itself has some surprisingly sculpted proportions. From the shape and the air intakes flanking either door, it looks to be mid-engine. It reminds us of the Alfa Romeo 4C, except with a different nose and a bit more length out back.

The powertrain underpinning the car will be "entirely developed and built in Maserati and will be the forefather of a new family of engines integrated exclusively on the vehicles of the brand," according to a press release.

Every Maserati since 2002 has used a Ferrari-built engine. We heard earlier this year Ferrari would stop building engines for Maserati, so this move makes sense.

Maserati didn't make it clear whether a version of the car you see here would ever see production. According to the release, it has an event planned for May 2020 that should tell us everything we want to know.

Stay tuned.

A mid-engined platform, eh? Can Dodge borrow it?

**Bryan Savage** · 03-02-2020

Looks like the car in the above post is going to be the successor to the Maserati MC12, likely called the MC20.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...c12-successor/

MC20.jpg

The MC12 is one of the coolest Maseratis ever made. Sure, it was based on the Ferrari Enzo, but there was something uniquely interesting about the car's wild proportions and racing intent. The mid-mounted 630-horsepower V-12 might've had something to do with it too. Maserati revealed today it plans to build a successor to the legendary mid-engine flagship, and call it the MC20.

MC20 stands for Maserati Corse 2020, the year that Maserati says marks the newest phase in the company's history. No photos of the car have been revealed, but this time around, it's expected the car will be developed fully in-house by the Maserati brand, rather than use an underlying chassis from Ferrari. In November 2019, the Modena, Italy-based firm released pictures of a test mule it claimed was "100-percent" Maserati.

Maserati says the MC20 will be a "natural evolution" of the MC12. Whether that means it'll get a naturally aspirated V-12 like the last car has yet to be revealed (please Maserati?). According to a press release, the car will be "brimming with technology," and have an electric variant.

The company has confirmed that, like the MC12, there will be a racing version of the MC20. Previously, the MC12 competed in the FIA GT1 category and American Le Mans. Hopefully we'll see something similar with this new car.

Maserati says it'll build the MC20 in Modena, pointing out it's already invested a considerable amount modernizing its plant and adding a paint shop. The company is expected to share more information during the Geneva Motor Show in March.

We know that the 2020 Geneva Motor Show has been cancelled due to the COVID-19 scare, so Maserati might have to think of another way to announce this car.

Meanwhile, looks like there's going to be souped-up Giulia that we may or may not get here in the states. I like it. If it comes here though, it will cost $120,000, I bet.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...specs-hp-info/

GTAm Front.jpg
GTAm Rear.jpg

Alfa Romeo has revealed a hardcore track-ready versions of its Giulia Quadrifoglio sedan, the GTA and GTAm. With less weight, more power, and a handful of aerodynamic upgrades, it's the most extreme modern Alfa yet.

The Giulia GTA was made to celebrate Alfa Romeo's 110th anniversary. GTA stands for Gran Turismo Alleggerita (the Italian word for lightened). The name was first used on the Giulia in 1965, where it saw immense motorsport success throughout Europe. Now the storied name is back. The Giulia GTA gets carbon fiber upgrades inside and out to save weight. There's a carbon fiber roof, hood, front bumper, wheel arches, diffuser, driveshaft, and interior trim. Other lightweighting upgrades include Lexan for the rear door windows and rear windscreen, and lightweight aluminum used in the engine, doors and suspension components. Weight is a claimed 3350 pounds - a weight-savings of 220 pounds compared to the standard Giulia Quadrifoglio.

Go for the even more extreme GTAm, and the rear seats are deleted and replaced with mounts for helmets and a fire extinguisher. The package also adds a roll bar, carbon fiber bucket seats, six-point harnesses, door pulls in place of handles, a carbon splitter, and a massive carbon wing (shown in the gallery above).

The GTA and GTAm get the same 2.9-liter twin-turbo V-6 from the normal Giulia, tuned to 540 horsepower (up from 510). Standard launch control allows the car to sprint from 0-62 mph in just 3.6 seconds.

Alfa Romeo is building just 500 units of the GTA and GTAm globally. In addition to the car, buyers will also receive a Bell helmet, a racing suit, gloves, shoes, a car cover, and a specific Alfa Romeo Driving Academy course along with their purchase. Alfa says most of the cars will be sold in Europe, it's "evaluating opportunities to introduce the GTA in other key markets around the world, including the U.S." Hopefully it'll make it to our shores.

**J TNT** · 03-02-2020

At 500 Units , I suspect it will be inversely proportional to the price..................

I'm still waiting for the Cuda to be released...............lol !

**Bryan Savage** · 03-09-2020

MC20.jpeg

https://www.maseratiusa.com/us/en/ne...totype-testing

Not many words on the site about the MC20 teaser above, and the other photos aren't much better. Looks Mid-Rear Engined and much like the C8 or F8 in profile.

A big departure than the so-awful-its-kind-of-cool MC12. I can't wait to see what they're up to. FCA needs a super car pretty badly.

**Bryan Savage** · 05-12-2020

Just to throw it out there, from Motor1 because there's no pricing on Alfa's websites, the GTA and GTAm are not only not going to be sold in the USA, but their starting prices are a heart-stopping 143,000 Euros ($154,573) and 147,000 Euros ($158,897), respectively.

This is WAY more than I predicted, and that doesn't even begin to address options like the absolutely amazing selections of livery paintjobs you are going to be able to order.

GTAm Liveries.jpg

Not so sure this would step on a Gen VI in any way, especially since they're only making 500 of them. The MC20 will probably be too expensive too, so all of a sudden, the runway might be clear for the Gen VI.

**Bryan Savage** · 06-01-2020

This has been a thing for years and years now, but it's bubbling to the surface again.

https://www.allpar.com/news/2020/05/...he-viper-48099

Longtime Allpar source “Muther” has been giving us the lowdown on the rumored Dodge Challenger ACR (American Club Racer).

Following the highly successful Neon ACR and Viper ACR, this car would have weight reductions, more aerodynamic work (to glue the tires to the track, not to reduce noise and increase economy), and better brakes, among other features. The car will carry much of the Challenger’s excitement until a completely new model is available—and, not surprisingly, that new model will come out later than expected.

There are reportedly to be two cars, most likely one using the 392 Hemi, with instant-on power, and one using the 797 horsepower 6.2 supercharged Hemi. The supercharger is not allowed in some amateur racing series or classes, so the 392 makes sense. According to rumor, the car was benchmarked against the Viper ACR itself—which means that the aerodynamic work, not to mention suspension upgrades, must be fairly intense.

Carbon fiber will replace steel or aluminum wherever practical (which includes financially). The wing is reportedly straight off the Viper ACR-E, while the splitter is modified from the ACR-E design. Brakes would not surprisingly be from Brembo. The suspension would be similar to factory units, but altered so drivers could set the height, caster, and camber at the track, as well as shock damping and rebound. Shocks may be adapted from the Viper design, along with the brakes.

As usual, SRT’s goal is for the Challenger to be raced; racers are the target customers. It’s not meant to be a daily driver; it’s more appropriate for towing in and racing, though it will be street legal. Ralph Gilles, who races himself, takes that aspect seriously; and the car will be well developed when launched.

“Muther” claimed that the goal is to weight in below 4,000 pounds (curb weight); he estimated that, at Road America, it would be within two seconds of the Viper ACR-E. What’s more, as with all SRT cars, it can maintain its speed for multiple successive laps, without overheating.

The car has its work cut out; the Mustang GT500 was just released to the press, and ran 10.6 seconds at 133 mph down an admittedly prepped drag strip, with its Tremec dual-clutch automatic (and fuel economy of just 14 mpg, combined). New versions of the mid-engine Corvettes are also promised at a rapid rate, though they’re not quite what the Challenger is going up against.

The ACR hold great promise, but they won’t change one thing about the Dodge Challenger: among the muscle cars, it has a fine combination of immediate power gratification, comfort, and space. If you need to, you can go from a race to pick up your parents at the airport… which is a bit harder to do with a Mustang, Corvette, or Camaro.

**Bill Pemberton** · 06-01-2020

FCA has continued to do more with little than many Automotive Corporations and when you have Serious Motorheads at the Top ( Tim Kuniskis , Ralph Gilles, etc. ) one should not be surprised with what pops up in the future years. We have a Challenger that was supposed to end somewhere around 2014-2016 , yet it keeps morphing and whether everyone here gets excited the public and press are still amazed. Who knows if the lightweight ACR Challenger will pop up, but take the moves over in Europe with the Maserati and even updates with the Guilia, and we may see them as small steps ,but the Viper ,itself was an exercise in small steps, little money, and dreamers and schemers. I just don't get as pessimistic as others on the future because over the past Decade I have seen more secrecy than in the years previous. Plus past history has told us that the plans FCA puts forth on models , their build schedules and future plans , has about as much validity as a 5 year old promising his mother he won't sneak into the cookie jar again. There is a bit of humor that what FCA puts out seems to change constantly ,like they are employing propaganda to their competitors luring them into thinking they are asleep. Look at the RAM truck and it shows only Ford and GM were sleeping and with the Jeep killing it Worldwide , we only viewed the loss of some machines, not the successes of others. I look forward to watching the FCA/PSA interactions and what the two companies may do to shake up the World. The fact that they will be a joint venture and looking for a big impact ,alone , means a " Halo Car," would be perfect in the near future to illustrate their marriage. We have become a society that is more and more negative , yet it has always seemed that when put under the thumb the Automotive Industry has adapted , become more progressive and exciting -- that is what I plan to look forward to.

**Bryan Savage** · 07-01-2020

https://www.media.maserati.com/en-ww/releases/1575

Maserati Press Release, July 1, 2020.

For the MC20:

An ambitious design, which represents a historic moment for the company, a new era that will officially begin on September 9 and 10 in Modena during the event, "MMXX: The time to be audacious". At the launch, new models will be revealed, which will go into production in the coming years, and innovative propulsion systems as well as ambitious programmes developed by the Casa del Tridente will be announced.

The new power unit is a V90° architecture, with a 3-litre, 6-cylinder twin-turbo, and features a dry sump (a classic solution on super sportscars). It delivers 630CV at 7500rpm and 730 Nm of torque from 3000rpm with a specific power output of 210CV/litre.

Manufactured by Maserati. Might be a little Italian, but I like the sound of it. Also mentions "new models will be revealed", meaning this will be a multi-platform engine. I doubt they let Dodge borrow it for a half-price MC20, but if it exists...

Small-16616-MaseratiNettunoEngine.jpg
Small-16620-MaseratiNettunoEngine.jpg

**capevettes** · 07-02-2020

Picked up my new C8 Tuesday. Fantastic car. Great looks, fast, great handling. Not as raw as a Viper and the exhaust is too quiet. I will remedy the exhaust. The DCT is lightning fast. Car gets stupid attention on the road, at least right now. Nice car.

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