Another Viper blew its engine at the track yesterday

[AZTVR]

I wonder how many people during the development of the Gen V Viper would have said that what the new Viper really needed was an electronic oil level sensor? If they had done a study back then, how many more Vipers would it have shown that they could have sold if it had a level sensor, versus what the development cost would have been? I guess that they could have used the history of complaints about not having oil level sensors on previous generations; but, I can't remember reading any of those.

[commandomatt]

I wonder how many people during the development of the Gen V Viper would have said that what the new Viper really needed was an electronic oil level sensor? If they had done a study back then, how many more Vipers would it have shown that they could have sold if it had a level sensor, versus what the development cost would have been? I guess that they could have used the history of complaints about not having oil level sensors on previous generations; but, I can't remember reading any of those.

Development cost ? How many cars in the FCA line up has some sort of low oil warning system ? All they would have to do is look the most compatible one, and there you have it.

I would wager that few of the Vipers electronics are exclusive to this car. Maybe by looks but the functionality I am sure is shared by many others in the line up

[ForTehNguyen]

be careful what you wish for in an electronic oil level sensor, a giant PITA

[ViperJon]

I wonder how many people during the development of the Gen V Viper would have said that what the new Viper really needed was an electronic oil level sensor? If they had done a study back then, how many more Vipers would it have shown that they could have sold if it had a level sensor, versus what the development cost would have been? I guess that they could have used the history of complaints about not having oil level sensors on previous generations; but, I can't remember reading any of those.

Had they known that the Gen V motor would burn oil at an unprecedented rate maybe they would have. But seeing as they couldn’t design a readable dipstick or even be bothered send out a $1.00 notice letter to owners about possible copious oil consumption when the knew about it years ago...probably not.

[Martin]

Given the choice of whether I wanted to see that my right rear tire was 1psi low, or my engine was one quart of oil low, I think I would have chosen the low oil option....

[ACRSNK]

Depends how you define a “nanny”. Traction or stability control.....maybe. A gauge that relays basic information about your motors condition? Nope. I don’t think it’s any different than a temperature, fuel or oil pressure gauge.

Agree. Kind of ridiculous not to have it as there are well known issues with oil consumption and even those that weren’t aware of the same wouldn’t have any excuses with a gauge telling them oil was low.

[ViperSRT]

Wasted effort.

[Jack B]

Many engines have an electronic oil level indicator. They are not overly reliable, and really only safeguard against a dangerously low oil level. They are not a device to use to determine when to add oil. The Viper engines configuration would result in near constant low oil level messages. I am not sure the engineers for the Viper tried but I have had experience with other engines. An engine with a relatively small surface area oil sump with significant depth (say depth in the same region as width of the sump) can place a sensor near the centroid of the oil pan and monitor when the oil drops 20 or 30 mm. The Viper with the extremely long and wide oil pan would be near impossible. If you draw the oil level in various high G positions (lateral and longitudinal) you will find there is no static centroid of the surface to monitor. The fact that we have a swing arm oil pickup demonstrates that the sump location effectively moves under differing conditions. Even a device that would only monitor at startup would be impractical based on how the level changes based on vehicle rake and road surface angle (check you oil level when parked in opposite directions in your garage to see how significant that is - about a half inch in my garage). So all the talk about having a simple oil level indicator like your SUV is impractical.

In the end the user is responsible for checking and maintaining the oil level. Skip it and take a risk for engine replacement costs.

Exactly - the depth of the G5 pan is a big issue, I should say no depth.

[Jack B]

Had they known that the Gen V motor would burn oil at an unprecedented rate maybe they would have. But seeing as they couldn’t design a readable dipstick or even be bothered send out a $1.00 notice letter to owners about possible copious oil consumption when the knew about it years ago...probably not.

I wonder if many know that they changed the dipstick near the end of the 2014? model year.

[Jack B]

How on earth are people attending a track event not checking oil level. Straight up negligence.



each car is going to be different, have to establish your own trend. Mine burns 1qt/2000 miles on 5W40 oil. Im running 15W50 now for 500 miles and doesnt look like its burned any. I will keep monitoring of course

Exactly, I have had four 5.7 Grand Cherokee's, the first three burned one qt per 5000 miles, the fourth burns no oil. My G5 burned two quarts the first 3000 miles. The rings then sealed and the consumption went down to no-consumption.

[Angleiron]

So is it burning actually or blow by? Forged pistons need heat to expand so until they get the proper temp the oil is getting past the rings...no?

[GTS Dean]

Agree 100%

Amazing that it seems more important to let us know we are running 1 PSI low in one of the tires on the car. All kinds of flashing warnings and even audible. Yet a low oil warning system wasn't worth developing

In this day and age, tire pressure is an absolutely ESSENTIAL, CRITICAL value to communicate to the driver as a SAFETY measure. Oil quantity, or even its presence, is merely a convenience. Unlubricated blown or seized motors are good for warranty claim denials and service department revenues.

The multiple comments about measuring oil depth in wide, long, shallow pans are absolutely spot-on. If you have 12 fluid ounces of water held in both a glass and a cookie sheet, you can easily visualize how difficult it is. I think an ultrasonic sensor(s), combined with multi-axis slope sensors could resolve the quantity mathematically prior to start-up.

[Taximan1]

Actually the crazy thing is that in 2019 you still have to check your oil the same way they did in 1920. Why in f***s sake they can't develop a low oil indicator in this day and age is beyond me. Sure you should be aware enough but seriously....it's the most important fluid and the life blood of the car. It's absurd a car can be running 3-4 quarts low and nothing indicated.

agreed. water under the bridge of course.. But with how many Dodge/Jeep/etc vehicles share a "very similar" dash,console,unconnect cluster. Its hard to believe that there was no low oil level indicator done on this car, I assume the other vehicles have such a trigger?. Think of what a $25-$50 sensor per car could have saved here. $$

Pretty sure I've shared this before. But was at a local C&C a while back. A gentleman with a gorgeous 14 yellow GTS was there. Not a "forum" guy, first viper. Purchased it new... car only had like 6000 miles on it if I remember.
I mentioned the recalls, and oil "situation" to him... The reply was, I just take it to the dealer for maint..... well (I said), lets just see for S & giggles... Dipstick was BONE dry... not a drop of oil.. we ran across the street to Autozone… It took 75% of a 5 QUART jug, to get it back in the safe zone.!!!!

and the bigger issue on used ones. is, you don't REALLY know if the car was ever run low during its life..... Using the above as an example... That car ran and drove fine, and likely still does.... but what damage was done during the time it was low??? Eventually, the car will be recycled into the used car market, and the new owner will be none the wiser.

[ForTehNguyen]

and the bigger issue on used ones. is, you don't REALLY know if the car was ever run low during its life..... Using the above as an example... That car ran and drove fine, and likely still does.... but what damage was done during the time it was low??? Eventually, the car will be recycled into the used car market, and the new owner will be none the wiser.

this is going to be a stigma for selling a G5 later, hence why I decided to do an oil analysis every year for documentation to any future owner that my engine was taken care of. My first one came back with good results, so already off to a good start

[chris_lee]

this is going to be a stigma for selling a G5 later, hence why I decided to do an oil analysis every year for documentation to any future owner that my engine was taken care of. My first one came back with good results, so already off to a good start

This is not a bad idea at all. Thinking down the road if I was in the market to buy, this could be a deal "maker" for me.

[ForTehNguyen]

worthwhile $28/year investment and peace of mind

[Pappy]

We heard about it at the driver's meeting this morning. They said it didn't spill oil all over the track fortunately...and then added "because there wasn't any in it"!

Remember to check your oil level once in a while!

Bruce, Unless I missed it, do we know if this was a Gen V? 2013/14,15 (recalls), or later? High mileage track rat?

Pappy

[Gen5snake]

I wonder if many know that they changed the dipstick near the end of the 2014? model year.

Kind of funny you say this. I have a 2015 built at the end of December 2014, actually the day before Christmas (I often wonder about quality because of this ) and I never understood why so many people have issues reading the oil levels. What was the change...no probs reading my stick?

[Bruce H.]

Bruce, Unless I missed it, do we know if this was a Gen V? 2013/14,15 (recalls), or later? High mileage track rat?

Pappy

I don't know which Gen or year... but understand none do well with no oil in them

[Old School]

"because there wasn't any in it"!

This seems like an exaggeration, it’s not going to run long enough to get on the track with zero oil.

[Bruce H.]

This seems like an exaggeration, it’s not going to run long enough to get on the track with zero oil.

Yes, I think we can assume there is some exaggeration in that statement

[IHOP]

Yes, I think we can assume there is some exaggeration in that statement

Hahahaa!!

[ViperSRT]

Wasted effort.

[Jack B]

Kind of funny you say this. I have a 2015 built at the end of December 2014, actually the day before Christmas (I often wonder about quality because of this ) and I never understood why so many people have issues reading the oil levels. What was the change...no probs reading my stick?

Easier to read

[ViperSRT]

Wasted effort.