Any 9Liter Extreme owners in here

[Jack B]

No I didn't Jack. However I took it out for about 90 minutes today and as it was dry I gave it the beans and certainly the car from a butt dyno perspective still feels as brisk as it did before. Remember though the mufflers I now have are not restrictive at all. Same size pipe all along as before from the Prefix Sportscat to tailpipe. Only difference is the central pipe within the muffler is perforated with tiny holes to allow some of the sound waves to pass through the packing material. Centrally however the flow of gases resumes unimpaired so it makes sense that there is no increased backpressure. Honestly car is now a dream to drive. Its a bit quieter no drone. Should have been that way from OEM as far as I'm concerned. Before it was just obnoxious and anti social. It's still loud by most cars standards but a touch more civilised and importantly allows me on to the tracks I want to go on. It's not quiet enough to do the quieter tracks but thats ok.

I thought you had some bad snow storms this week.

[stradman]

I thought you had some bad snow storms this week.

I'm down in the southeast so although we had some snow it wasn't bad and roads cleared up quickly. It was nippy of course(nothing like the northeast US had thought!)and it was dry and sunny for a couple of days and about 4 degrees Celsius. Perfect to drive!

[Bryan Savage]

Here's the equations and rules I typically use for car values:

1. (Community's Perceived Value) > (Market's Perceived Value)

2. (Community's Perceived Value) + (Mods You've Done) = (Your Perceived Value)

3. (Market's Perceived Value) - (Mods You've Done) = (Potential Buyer's Perceived Value)

4. (Market's Perceived Value) + (Mods You Paid Big Name Shop to Install) - ((0.1)*((Car Mileage)/1000)*(Mods You Paid Big Name Shop to Install)) = (Potential Buyer's Perceived Value)


I'm not bothered by what my car might be worth, and that's not going to stop me from doing whatever I want to it, but then again, if I started hearing about OTAs going for $200,000, knowing the above rules, it damn sure would make me have second thoughts. I would likely return my car to stock, and be contemplating what SirHiss is talking about.

The numbered cars will likely always carry a higher resale value, solely because they are numbered. Even though there might be fewer TA 2.0s made, they aren't a "limited production series". If a manufacturer will build as many of a thing as are ordered, and they just don't sell many, it's going to take a while before those are worth something. Take the McViper, for example. Begin production with a cap in place however, and then number each one, well that makes them more desirable. And I stand to say more desirable than a 1-of-1 ACR.

[est8esq]

So, going back to SirHiss' original query, I too am curious to hear from anyone who's actually had work done?

I was recently at Sebring and my last run had oppportunity to run with another Yorange ACR and it clearly had work done. No stock Viper could have the ability to walk away as it did on the straights without engine work. (My friend said he knew the Viper. Was at Barber few weeks back and confirmed it has "work" done.) I starting poking around and apparently there are 3 different stages available? First are heads and cams (~7-9% increase in hp), Stage two bumps up engine to 9L (~17% increase in hp) and then there's the "Extreme" stage 3 that is supposed to increase horsepower/torque by ~25%?

Problem is, I'm told the parts alone for the Stage 3 is almost $27k by themselves. Then, there's still the labor to install.

Apparently, the stage 3 is still very streetable and reliable and trust that representation. However, I just can't wrap my head around the costs??

I'm really curious to hear from those who have the extreme package if they feel it's worth it?

[Space Truckin]

So, going back to SirHiss' original query, I too am curious to hear from anyone who's actually had work done? I'm really curious to hear from those who have the extreme package if they feel it's worth it?

^^^Calling Whitey^^^...hehehe

[Scott_in_fl]

So, going back to SirHiss' original query, I too am curious to hear from anyone who's actually had work done?

I was recently at Sebring and my last run had oppportunity to run with another Yorange ACR and it clearly had work done. No stock Viper could have the ability to walk away as it did on the straights without engine work. (My friend said he knew the Viper. Was at Barber few weeks back and confirmed it has "work" done.) I starting poking around and apparently there are 3 different stages available? First are heads and cams (~7-9% increase in hp), State two bumps up engine to 9L (~17% increase in hp) and then there's the "Extreme" stage 3 that is supposed to increase horsepower/torque by ~25%?

Problem is, I'm told the parts alone for the Stage 3 is almost $27k by themselves. Then, there's still the labor to install.

Apparently, the stage 3 is still very streetable and reliable and trust that representation. However, I just can't wrap my head around the costs??

I'm really curious to hear from those who have the extreme package if they feel it's worth it?

I think you'll find that adding N/A horsepower is quite a bit more expensive that adding FI horsepower. That said, I've always viewed the 9L option as a very cost effective mod for a G5. You get basically more than you can handle on the street, it remains track-able since it's not FI with crazy hp and a wild powerband, and is apparently very drivable and reliable. It's almost the car that should have been, which is a theory that I've had -- that FCA gave us an overengineered race car in the ACR and left it to us to handle the easy part (install what is basically an OEM quality race kit). Nothing else really explains the way, way overengineered aero and why this car has 1,700 lbs. of downforce but no more hp than a standard Viper. Moreover, everyone who tracks the car agrees that it could easily handle quite a bit more hp to work through, and take best advantage of, all of the downforce (especially Luca Stolz).

Why would they do that? Because it is far easier for us to add the power than for them to do it (with regs, emissions, etc.). In fact, motorcycle mfg's regularly do this with superbikes. You buy the bike from Honda that was clearly designed to compete on a world stage, but it comes with 100hp stock. Then, if you know the right people, you source an HRC "race kit" that unlocks the full 210hp. They've done this forever.

Here is the current bike that you can buy if you have the $$$. https://www.motorcycle.com/manufactu...de-review.html

[Jack B]

you pick - These numbers are all over the place, here are some ball park dyno #:

1. Stock- 530-570.

2. HPT - 590-610

3. HC - 660 - 675

4. HC & 9L - 680 - 710

5. Extreme: 725 plus (with 9L)

There are going to higher and lower numbers, let's say these are mean numbers. The above also assumes all cars have headers

[est8esq]

I think you'll find that adding N/A horsepower is quite a bit more expensive that adding FI horsepower. That said, I've always viewed the 9L option as a very cost effective mod for a G5. You get basically more than you can handle on the street, it remains track-able since it's not FI with crazy hp and a wild powerband, and is apparently very drivable and reliable. It's almost the car that should have been, which is a theory that I've had -- that FCA gave us an overengineered race car in the ACR and left it to us to handle the easy part (install what is basically an OEM quality race kit). Nothing else really explains the way overengineered aero and why this car has 1,700 lbs. of downforce but no more hp than a standard Viper. Moreover, everyone who tracks the car agrees that it could easily handle quite a bit more hp to work through, and take best advantage of, all of the downforce.

Why would they do that? Because it is far easier for us to add the power than for them to do it (with regs, emissions, etc.). In fact, motorcycle mfg's regularly do this with superbikes. You buy the bike from Honda that was clearly designed to compete on a world stage, but it comes with 100hp stock. Then, if you know the right people, you source an HRC "race kit" that unlocks the full 210hp. They've done this forever.

Here is the current bike that you can buy if you have the $$$. https://www.motorcycle.com/manufactu...de-review.html

Very interesting theory and hadn't heard that before. Only, if FCA really "overbuilt" the car why would our cars place such stress that the ball joints on "a arm" keep bending under load? Until I got all this replaced (at around $7k), I couldn't keep the car alligned.

It makes sense for us to make changes than huge costs for manufacturer, but going back to the original point I'm curious to hear from 9L Extreme owners how they feel about their cars? I'm also concerned as horsepower continues up, what is the next thing that you might have to chase?

[Scott_in_fl]

Yeah, I'm convinced that internally the ACR-E was intended to be the Mic Drop for the best DOT approved track car platform available. The design of the car seems far more appropriate with slicks and 750rwhp than the setup that was required to be sold at your local dealer. Otherwise, the ACR-E does not make a ton of sense when the ACR was already there.

The ball joint issue sounds like one of those things that engineering just did not catch before the product was green lighted. That happens. Even owners of the SCG003 will surely identify some issues that the Glickenhaus crew missed. But those are usually smaller items that are easily worked around with a re-designed part that SCG will push out to owners as they devise a fix. Our problem is that there is no more refining of the ACR-E because everyone has gone home and the lights have been turned off.

[Arizona Vipers]

I drive my 9 liter extreme on the track only and love it. No issues after about 5 track weekends so far. The car has been breaking NasaProRacing.com TTU time trial records

[Whitey]

^^^Calling Whitey^^^...hehehe

Callout received Space Truckin!

I have one for you. How about you post some pictures and provide an update on your 9L hotrod! You have one of the best ACR’s made!

I usually don’t comment on the future value of Viper threads and my “blue Viper” is worth more than your “orange Viper” speculation. I don’t have any current plans to sell my Viper so I may have a different perspective. When I consider where I can get a naturally aspirated V10 with 810bhp and a manual transmission, I plan on and hope I can keep my GTC forever! For those selling your cars, I wish you all the best with your sale. In my opinion, market supply/demand and the one buyer that writes a check is what your car will be worth. Anything before that is pure speculation.

Back to the OP, I have a Prefix 9LX conversion with 2,000 miles on it. I am very happy with the conversion. I have been doing roll racing and runway events. I have multiple pulls well past 170 mph and one at 197 mph. For a naturally aspirated motor, the top end is very strong. Wide open throttle in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears will circulate your blood faster – guaranteed!

I had one of the first 9LX conversions and had some initial perturbations, but those were worked out. I posted a thread here.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...rney+continues

In the thread I mentioned … “… modifications come with issues and perturbations. These issues may occur and that has to be accepted. I know this isn’t right for everyone. I accept those risks and enjoy the rewards”.

Modifying your Viper is a personal decision. It comes with risks and rewards… and… it costs money. There are many considerations (e.g. goals for the car, money, reliability, build quality, ownership term, emissions, warranty etc...) All of these considerations are personal and you get the privilege of making the decisions.

In my opinion, the 9LX conversion is a great upgrade. Prefix does a great job on all their conversions (H/C, 9L and 9LX). One of the pro’s for the 9L and 9LX conversions is you get essentially a new motor. Give Scot at Prefix a call and he can discuss your goals, budget and considerations so you get a solution you will be happy with. You can also send me a PM if you want to talk off-line.

Good luck with your modifications. I hope you are enjoying your Viper as much as I am.

https://youtu.be/1LQTQMY2Klo

Go Viper! V10 Power!


20190126_123809.jpg

[Redx]

Callout received Space Truckin!

I have one for you. How about you post some pictures and provide an update on your 9L hotrod! You have one of the best ACR’s made!

I usually don’t comment on the future value of Viper threads and my “blue Viper” is worth more than your “orange Viper” speculation. I don’t have any current plans to sell my Viper so I may have a different perspective. When I consider where I can get a naturally aspirated V10 with 810bhp and a manual transmission, I plan on and hope I can keep my GTC forever! For those selling your cars, I wish you all the best with your sale. In my opinion, market supply/demand and the one buyer that writes a check is what your car will be worth. Anything before that is pure speculation.

Back to the OP, I have a Prefix 9LX conversion with 2,000 miles on it. I am very happy with the conversion. I have been doing roll racing and runway events. I have multiple pulls well past 170 mph and one at 197 mph. For a naturally aspirated motor, the top end is very strong. Wide open throttle in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears will circulate your blood faster – guaranteed!

I had one of the first 9LX conversions and had some initial perturbations, but those were worked out. I posted a thread here.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...rney+continues

In the thread I mentioned … “… modifications come with issues and perturbations. These issues may occur and that has to be accepted. I know this isn’t right for everyone. I accept those risks and enjoy the rewards”.

Modifying your Viper is a personal decision. It comes with risks and rewards… and… it costs money. There are many considerations (e.g. goals for the car, money, reliability, build quality, ownership term, emissions, warranty etc...) All of these considerations are personal and you get the privilege of making the decisions.

In my opinion, the 9LX conversion is a great upgrade. Prefix does a great job on all their conversions (H/C, 9L and 9LX). One of the pro’s for the 9L and 9LX conversions is you get essentially a new motor. Give Scot at Prefix a call and he can discuss your goals, budget and considerations so you get a solution you will be happy with. You can also send me a PM if you want to talk off-line.

Good luck with your modifications. I hope you are enjoying your Viper as much as I am.

https://youtu.be/1LQTQMY2Klo

Go Viper! V10 Power!

What did your car do in the 1/2 mile Whitey? I plan on hitting some 1/2 mile and 1/4 mile events this year, curious of numbers. 9xtreme.jpg

[est8esq]

Callout received Space Truckin!

I have one for you. How about you post some pictures and provide an update on your 9L hotrod! You have one of the best ACR’s made!

I usually don’t comment on the future value of Viper threads and my “blue Viper” is worth more than your “orange Viper” speculation. I don’t have any current plans to sell my Viper so I may have a different perspective. When I consider where I can get a naturally aspirated V10 with 810bhp and a manual transmission, I plan on and hope I can keep my GTC forever! For those selling your cars, I wish you all the best with your sale. In my opinion, market supply/demand and the one buyer that writes a check is what your car will be worth. Anything before that is pure speculation.

Back to the OP, I have a Prefix 9LX conversion with 2,000 miles on it. I am very happy with the conversion. I have been doing roll racing and runway events. I have multiple pulls well past 170 mph and one at 197 mph. For a naturally aspirated motor, the top end is very strong. Wide open throttle in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears will circulate your blood faster – guaranteed!

I had one of the first 9LX conversions and had some initial perturbations, but those were worked out. I posted a thread here.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...rney+continues

In the thread I mentioned … “… modifications come with issues and perturbations. These issues may occur and that has to be accepted. I know this isn’t right for everyone. I accept those risks and enjoy the rewards”.

Modifying your Viper is a personal decision. It comes with risks and rewards… and… it costs money. There are many considerations (e.g. goals for the car, money, reliability, build quality, ownership term, emissions, warranty etc...) All of these considerations are personal and you get the privilege of making the decisions.

In my opinion, the 9LX conversion is a great upgrade. Prefix does a great job on all their conversions (H/C, 9L and 9LX). One of the pro’s for the 9L and 9LX conversions is you get essentially a new motor. Give Scot at Prefix a call and he can discuss your goals, budget and considerations so you get a solution you will be happy with. You can also send me a PM if you want to talk off-line.

Good luck with your modifications. I hope you are enjoying your Viper as much as I am.

https://youtu.be/1LQTQMY2Klo

Go Viper! V10 Power!


20190126_123809.jpg

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and agree with you. Years ago, I built up a Nissan GT-R to 1000 hp and when it ran it was a beast. Unfortunately, the heat soak issues had me on a first name basis with every tow truck at every track I ever visited and since then have established my parameters of reliability FIRST.

My "bolt ons" are great and now seem to be chasing once again for the next level, but your comments brought it home for me, thanks.

I think all you "cheaters" out there w/ these mods should be required to put big bright "X's" on your hoods, so the rest of us know to get the hell out of the way...

[Space Truckin]

Here you go..

20190126_123809.jpg

[Nth Moto]

Callout received Space Truckin!

I have one for you. How about you post some pictures and provide an update on your 9L hotrod! You have one of the best ACR’s made!

I usually don’t comment on the future value of Viper threads and my “blue Viper” is worth more than your “orange Viper” speculation. I don’t have any current plans to sell my Viper so I may have a different perspective. When I consider where I can get a naturally aspirated V10 with 810bhp and a manual transmission, I plan on and hope I can keep my GTC forever! For those selling your cars, I wish you all the best with your sale. In my opinion, market supply/demand and the one buyer that writes a check is what your car will be worth. Anything before that is pure speculation.

Back to the OP, I have a Prefix 9LX conversion with 2,000 miles on it. I am very happy with the conversion. I have been doing roll racing and runway events. I have multiple pulls well past 170 mph and one at 197 mph. For a naturally aspirated motor, the top end is very strong. Wide open throttle in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears will circulate your blood faster – guaranteed!

I had one of the first 9LX conversions and had some initial perturbations, but those were worked out. I posted a thread here.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...rney+continues

In the thread I mentioned … “… modifications come with issues and perturbations. These issues may occur and that has to be accepted. I know this isn’t right for everyone. I accept those risks and enjoy the rewards”.

Modifying your Viper is a personal decision. It comes with risks and rewards… and… it costs money. There are many considerations (e.g. goals for the car, money, reliability, build quality, ownership term, emissions, warranty etc...) All of these considerations are personal and you get the privilege of making the decisions.

In my opinion, the 9LX conversion is a great upgrade. Prefix does a great job on all their conversions (H/C, 9L and 9LX). One of the pro’s for the 9L and 9LX conversions is you get essentially a new motor. Give Scot at Prefix a call and he can discuss your goals, budget and considerations so you get a solution you will be happy with. You can also send me a PM if you want to talk off-line.

Good luck with your modifications. I hope you are enjoying your Viper as much as I am.

https://youtu.be/1LQTQMY2Klo

Go Viper! V10 Power!

Glad you are enjoying your car Michael! You are truly an enthusiast and your words should serve many well out there to read and understand.

Be well!

[Bruce H.]

I think you'll find that adding N/A horsepower is quite a bit more expensive that adding FI horsepower. That said, I've always viewed the 9L option as a very cost effective mod for a G5. You get basically more than you can handle on the street, it remains track-able since it's not FI with crazy hp and a wild powerband, and is apparently very drivable and reliable. It's almost the car that should have been, which is a theory that I've had -- that FCA gave us an overengineered race car in the ACR and left it to us to handle the easy part (install what is basically an OEM quality race kit). Nothing else really explains the way, way overengineered aero and why this car has 1,700 lbs. of downforce but no more hp than a standard Viper. Moreover, everyone who tracks the car agrees that it could easily handle quite a bit more hp to work through, and take best advantage of, all of the downforce (especially Luca Stolz).

Why would they do that? Because it is far easier for us to add the power than for them to do it (with regs, emissions, etc.).

I think it's a bit dangerous to suggest that the ACR is set up for racing, or that it was engineered to handle much more power by owners for track use, or that the wing's function somehow supports that belief.

The ACR is a street car that's incredibly capable doing track days, but a long ways from being outfitted to handle racing or much more power. Ralph invited me to SRT Motorsport's final race at Mosport where it ended with all 3 GTLM and GTD drivers on the podium. Kuno's crew chief, Matt L., took me on a full tour under and over the race cars and pointed out the extensive differences between the street and race cars. I can't remember much it anything that wasn't changed and substantially beefed up. The race cars run much faster lap times with power restricted to just 500 hp, and had vastly improved cooling of engine, brakes, tranny, and diff to be able to do it, and that was just the start.

Cooling is the first obvious challenge when adding more power to an ACR driven aggressively on track for full sessions as opposed to for just a few hot laps. Not an issue for street use though.

[blingnoring]

Callout received Space Truckin!

I have one for you. How about you post some pictures and provide an update on your 9L hotrod! You have one of the best ACR’s made!

I usually don’t comment on the future value of Viper threads and my “blue Viper” is worth more than your “orange Viper” speculation. I don’t have any current plans to sell my Viper so I may have a different perspective. When I consider where I can get a naturally aspirated V10 with 810bhp and a manual transmission, I plan on and hope I can keep my GTC forever! For those selling your cars, I wish you all the best with your sale. In my opinion, market supply/demand and the one buyer that writes a check is what your car will be worth. Anything before that is pure speculation.

Back to the OP, I have a Prefix 9LX conversion with 2,000 miles on it. I am very happy with the conversion. I have been doing roll racing and runway events. I have multiple pulls well past 170 mph and one at 197 mph. For a naturally aspirated motor, the top end is very strong. Wide open throttle in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears will circulate your blood faster – guaranteed!

I had one of the first 9LX conversions and had some initial perturbations, but those were worked out. I posted a thread here.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...rney+continues

In the thread I mentioned … “… modifications come with issues and perturbations. These issues may occur and that has to be accepted. I know this isn’t right for everyone. I accept those risks and enjoy the rewards”.

Modifying your Viper is a personal decision. It comes with risks and rewards… and… it costs money. There are many considerations (e.g. goals for the car, money, reliability, build quality, ownership term, emissions, warranty etc...) All of these considerations are personal and you get the privilege of making the decisions.

In my opinion, the 9LX conversion is a great upgrade. Prefix does a great job on all their conversions (H/C, 9L and 9LX). One of the pro’s for the 9L and 9LX conversions is you get essentially a new motor. Give Scot at Prefix a call and he can discuss your goals, budget and considerations so you get a solution you will be happy with. You can also send me a PM if you want to talk off-line.

Good luck with your modifications. I hope you are enjoying your Viper as much as I am.

https://youtu.be/1LQTQMY2Klo

Go Viper! V10 Power!


20190126_123809.jpg

thanks for the info Whitey, awesome setup

[stradman]

I think it's a bit dangerous to suggest that the ACR is set up for racing, or that it was engineered to handle much more power by owners for track use, or that the wing's function somehow supports that belief.

The ACR is a street car that's incredibly capable doing track days, but a long ways from being outfitted to handle racing or much more power. Ralph invited me to SRT Motorsport's final race at Mosport where it ended with all 3 GTLM and GTD drivers on the podium. Kuno's crew chief, Matt L., took me on a full tour under and over the race cars and pointed out the extensive differences between the street and race cars. I can't remember much it anything that wasn't changed and substantially beefed up. The race cars run much faster lap times with power restricted to just 500 hp, and had vastly improved cooling of engine, brakes, tranny, and diff to be able to do it, and that was just the start.

Cooling is the first obvious challenge when adding more power to an ACR driven aggressively on track for full sessions as opposed to for just a few hot laps. Not an issue for street use though.

Agree with pretty much everything you say Bruce. If you plan on tracking heavily then you defo need to upgrade things in particularly cooling and even then you'll never be quite as good as a proper race car. From my perspective that's why I added both Tranny and diff coolers as well as opened up the radiator grill opening as much as possible to give that Rad some good flow. May need some added brake ducts in due course too.
radiator opening.jpg

[Snakebit10]

What happened to your stripe on the front bumper? Weight savings?

[stradman]

What happened to your stripe on the front bumper? Weight savings?

Lol! Never had one as it is a non stripe car. I've added those stripes myself. I know not perfect but will probably change around again with another design later in the year.

[Steve M]

What did your car do in the 1/2 mile Whitey? I plan on hitting some 1/2 mile and 1/4 mile events this year, curious of numbers. 9xtreme.jpg

Are you planning on putting that thing into orbit?