Viper resales

[Gary12000]

Dear Sirs,

I am an aspiring Viper owner, i am looking at the sub $90K price point but hoping for sub $80k, value seems difficult to ascertain, i have read this post and i don't feel qualified to talk on the finer points of all models, i am only interested in GenV as i desire the extra sophistication and safety of that generation, i have had and currently have a Hellcat for more than two years, my question is is $78k a good retail price for a 2014 base SRT with 17,000 miles and excellent condition, the car has no options, black painted rims, basic sport tires, race yellow, black interior, they would likely take my low mileage HC in as a trade which is definitely useful for tax and simplicity, Your advice would be appreciated.

[serpent]

Dear Sirs,

I am an aspiring Viper owner, i am looking at the sub $90K price point but hoping for sub $80k, value seems difficult to ascertain, i have read this post and i don't feel qualified to talk on the finer points of all models, i am only interested in GenV as i desire the extra sophistication and safety of that generation, i have had and currently have a Hellcat for more than two years, my question is is $78k a good retail price for a 2014 base SRT with 17,000 miles and excellent condition, the car has no options, black painted rims, basic sport tires, race yellow, black interior, they would likely take my low mileage HC in as a trade which is definitely useful for tax and simplicity, Your advice would be appreciated.

Gotta use all the car websites (cargurus, autotrader, ebay, craigslist, etc). Theres a '14 SRT with under 2k miles for sale at 79k. That would be the car to get with such low miles.

[Gary12000]

I have found in the last 3 months that (i believe) some dealers advertise cars that they don't really have, "Bait & Switch", either i am correct on that or the sales staff are so poor at communicating that i cant get pictures or information from them, two cars were advertised for a month and when i called they said" oh those are at our other location contact them", when i contacted them i was sent a list of available cars and those cars were not on the list, only more expensive models. Another dealership sent me pictures only of the more expensive of the two vipers they had, the other car which is still advertised i could not get any information on it, yet it is still on autotrader even now, i escalated my request higher and higher within the dealership hierarchy and was polite enough that i should have gotten a response, i got one short apology then 2 pictures of the more expensive car shown dirty, no service history and then no further information or contact despite polite reminders.
my point for this rant is, remote purchases are a challenge, based on how trustworthy i feel as a buyer with someone i don't know, so far i have been very disappointed, maybe a local car is better for trade purposes, and as long as the price is reasonable and not too far in excess of true value it could be my best option. i have not seen any GenV viper under $79K yet. edit, on cargurus there are a couple a bit less than $79K.

[Purple Haze]

Agreed IMO if you see a Gen V Viper under 80-85K K it's either got a problem, owner has no ideas on values, or higher miles on it...It should only go up from here...

[commandomatt]

Everyone always wants to get the best bang for the buck....that's understandable.

However, when you are just focused on the lowest possible price, then know that you are scraping the bottom of the barrel and with that, a lot of crap shows up.

[Scott_in_fl]

Gary, you've heard some very good advice from real enthusiasts that know this market well.

I'll only add that you generally get what you pay for and if I were purchasing sight unseen, I would only be purchasing from the most reputable Viper dealers -- those are Woodhouse, Roanoke, Gerry Wood, and Viper Exchange. You should be able to get on the phone with any of them and feel comfortable right away that you're dealing with great people who will find you the car you want.

Good luck with the search!

[USAFPILOT]

Dear Sirs,

I am an aspiring Viper owner, i am looking at the sub $90K price point but hoping for sub $80k, value seems difficult to ascertain, i have read this post and i don't feel qualified to talk on the finer points of all models, i am only interested in GenV as i desire the extra sophistication and safety of that generation, i have had and currently have a Hellcat for more than two years, my question is is $78k a good retail price for a 2014 base SRT with 17,000 miles and excellent condition, the car has no options, black painted rims, basic sport tires, race yellow, black interior, they would likely take my low mileage HC in as a trade which is definitely useful for tax and simplicity, Your advice would be appreciated.

I bought a real nice 2015GT with 5100 miles for 78.5. They are out there. Mine is standard black on black with the track package. I added the 18 spkr stereo and am just loving this thing. No issues.

[Stealth78]

I bought a real nice 2015GT with 5100 miles for 78.5. They are out there. Mine is standard black on black with the track package. I added the 18 spkr stereo and am just loving this thing. No issues.

Well hello!

[Gary12000]

Thanks gentlemen, i don't want to bash any company that people think highly of as my experience may be not the norm... but lets just say that one of the places you mentioned was who i referred to about bait and switch. I mean anyway you cut it, if you advertise two brand new vipers at around 107k then when i call you refer me to your other store, and they don't have it, that smells funny.

In regards to a viper [riced at around 80k, i think there are some cars coming back in to Dodge dealers with reasonable mileages, sub 20,000 miles that are relative bargains, these may well be low spec SRT(base) cars, but i would be surprised to find that they are all garbage.

[ViperJon]

Thanks gentlemen, i don't want to bash any company that people think highly of as my experience may be not the norm... but lets just say that one of the places you mentioned was who i referred to about bait and switch. I mean anyway you cut it, if you advertise two brand new vipers at around 107k then when i call you refer me to your other store, and they don't have it, that smells funny..

I'm not surprised in the slightest. Now that they don't have any big ticket new Vipers to sell they are all just used car salesman with all the good and bad that implies. I think it's only slightly worse than aluminum siding sales people. Being a (previous) big Viper dealer is sort of meaningless now. There's no MSRP to work off it's all just subjective used car values.

[Scott_in_fl]

Maybe so, but I've dealt with several of them and there are some good people. That said, if I were to pick the one that Gary is referring to, my guess is that it starts with V.

[Gary12000]

Maybe so, but I've dealt with several of them and there are some good people. That said, if I were to pick the one that Gary is referring to, my guess is that it starts with V.

Hmmmmmm!! maybe...lol

[commandomatt]

i would be surprised to find that they are all garbage.

This may be somewhat of a response to what I mentioned. Just to be clear, not all low dollar Vipers are bad but when you are searching at that level, you are bound to come across some of those cars and just be careful. These are expensive cars to work on and parts will be harder and harder to find down the road.

While this advice doesn't work for everyone, I have always thought it better to decide on what you want (generation/year, model, color(s), options) and then look for it. Give yourself a reasonable budget with the specs in mind and if it takes a little longer to find it...no big deal. You get what you want. Hopefully you are intending to keep it for some time and its important that your didn't compromise when buying it.

This as opposed to saying I want a Viper for 78K, or anything cheaper and whatever comes up for that price.....is it.

Just my take

[Bruce H.]

And I'd add to that good advice that you're better to potentially spend a little too much than too little. If you pay a little more than what you think you should have after hearing about cars you never saw on the other side of the country all you'll potentially be out is a few dollars that you'll soon forget...as opposed to settling for something you could seriously regret. If shopping locally and being able to check a car out thoroughly work out than that's a really good way to go. Good luck!

[Vipermann]

no way those early cars are gonna be worth anything, the gen 4 cars and gen v act cars are gonna be it, like a midyear corvette

I have collected (bought and sold) many collector cars over the past 15 years, and I tend to agree. I would say Gen 4 roadsters and Gen 5 will be most prized (JMO).

IMO, this is for a couple of reasons. First, as Vipers become collector cars (10-15 years from now), it will become more about car shows and Sunday drives. Second, these cars won't be competitive with the technology of 10 years from now, and parts will be much harder to find - so today's racing/track appeal will fade as the car ages into becoming a collector. As that happens, as with most collectible cars today, the convertibles also become worth more. And I wouldn't hang my hat on Gen 5 'technology' as a driver of future appeal. It also will be dated 10 years from now, and then collectively becomes more about the trip down memory lane...

Have owned as older collectibles (toys):
'69 Mach One Mustang
'67 K-code Fastback Mustang
'69 SS350 Camaro Convertible
'67 Chevelle SS396 Convertible
'65 Shelby GT350R Clone
'73 Triumph GT6
'70 Olds Cutlass Supreme Convertible (for sale)

[Vipermann]

I wonder if viper prices will plummet when everyone jumps on the C8 mid engine band wagon later this year.

I'm looking at Vettes right now, and some of the large Vette dealers are saying rumor is that C7 carries into 2020 and the C8 doesn't show up until Spring 2020 as a 2021 MY (e.g. just in time to be an Indy 500 Pace Car and compete at LeMans in 2020).

[Scott_in_fl]

I have collected (bought and sold) many collector cars over the past 15 years, and I tend to agree. I would say Gen 4 roadsters and Gen 5 will be most prized (JMO).

IMO, this is for a couple of reasons. First, as Vipers become collector cars (10-15 years from now), it will become more about car shows and Sunday drives. Second, these cars won't be competitive with the technology of 10 years from now, and parts will be much harder to find - so today's racing/track appeal will fade as the car ages into becoming a collector. As that happens, as with most collectible cars today, the convertibles also become worth more. And I wouldn't hang my hat on Gen 5 'technology' as a driver of future appeal. It also will be dated 10 years from now, and then collectively becomes more about the trip down memory lane...

Have owned as older collectibles (toys):
'69 Mach One Mustang
'67 K-code Fastback Mustang
'69 SS350 Camaro Convertible
'67 Chevelle SS396 Convertible
'65 Shelby GT350R Clone
'73 Triumph GT6
'70 Olds Cutlass Supreme Convertible (for sale)

Interesting thought about convertibles and why they become more prized the older they get.

[ViperSmith]

I have to agree. Younger people today who have never known life without the Internet, Bluetooth, Navigation etc are going to want a rudimentary kit car like a Gen 1?
And create a groundswell of demand required to drive prices higher? No way. 27 years later and flat lined as ever.

You are correct, but I think the "Modern" cars with fancy gadgets are going to pose long term problems for the Viper. When touch screens start dying, electronics go dead, locked ECU, these cars aren't going to be easily fixable. I see the maintainability of the more advanced electronics as a huge inhibitor in the future for cars of this decade.

[swexlin]

You are correct, but I think the "Modern" cars with fancy gadgets are going to pose long term problems for the Viper. When touch screens start dying, electronics go dead, locked ECU, these cars aren't going to be easily fixable. I see the maintainability of the more advanced electronics as a huge inhibitor in the future for cars of this decade.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And this is true of all modern vehicles, not just Vipers. Mechanically, engines and powertrains are very reliable, and with care, will last years (again, not just Vipers). But it's the electronics - sensors, ECUs, etc. 15 years from now, if a sensor goes, and you can't start or drive the car - you have a very reliable....paperweight. So 30 years from now (I'll be dead) you'll still see cars from 1970 at shows, but many of today's cars may be sitting in a garage, not driven, due to some computer/electronic issue, not fixable due to outdated tech.

[TOMBOTT2014]

If it becomes a Indy Pace car would it be hitting any walls ?

[Scott_in_fl]

Couldn't have said it better myself. And this is true of all modern vehicles, not just Vipers. Mechanically, engines and powertrains are very reliable, and with care, will last years (again, not just Vipers). But it's the electronics - sensors, ECUs, etc. 15 years from now, if a sensor goes, and you can't start or drive the car - you have a very reliable....paperweight. So 30 years from now (I'll be dead) you'll still see cars from 1970 at shows, but many of today's cars may be sitting in a garage, not driven, due to some computer/electronic issue, not fixable due to outdated tech.

I think you'd be surprised at what people can fix who repair those types of things.

[ViperSmith]

I think you'd be surprised at what people can fix who repair those types of things.

Gen V's are so dependent on the factory. From the scanners only dealers have access to, to requiring a connection back to the factory to "verify" aspects of the car. Dodge is under no commitment to keep those data services running forever.

I wouldn't count on the viability of any of these "connected" cars from this generation. I feel that in 25 years virtually everything from this generation will be off the road because they have no long term sustainment plans to keep them on the road. It is a huge risk for buyers.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that encrypted ECU's means you are at the behest of Dodge to continue to make ECU in 20 years for the Viper. Will they?

If I was a "investing" in cars it would be analog cars for sustainability reasons.

[cubeman]

Gen V's are so dependent on the factory. From the scanners only dealers have access to, to requiring a connection back to the factory to "verify" aspects of the car. Dodge is under no commitment to keep those data services running forever.

I wouldn't count on the viability of any of these "connected" cars from this generation. I feel that in 25 years virtually everything from this generation will be off the road because they have no long term sustainment plans to keep them on the road. It is a huge risk for buyers.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that encrypted ECU's means you are at the behest of Dodge to continue to make ECU in 20 years for the Viper. Will they?

If I was a "investing" in cars it would be analog cars for sustainability reasons.

Right to repair laws will continue to be passed requiring Car manufacturers to keep the software available even after support is over. The good thing about Gen V's is Dodge never put the additional security requirements that 2015+ Challengers and Chargers have which requires mailing a PCM to be unlocked or an additional tool to bypass like on 18+'s now. The way dealerconnect/serviceconnect or whatever it's called is setup is that they don't need to maintain hardware anymore or push out updates to separate peices of equipment. You plug into OBD2 and the same answers and diag are there just like if you plugged in some mid 2000's regular Chrysler product.

For parts? That's the major issue, but at that point it's across all cars. MOTEC will always be an option.

[Scott_in_fl]

MOTEC is there and so would lots of others be if the "brain" devices of all current cars were somehow unsupported at some point. There is something like a trillion dollars worth of current gen cars on the road in the United States alone. That's a pretty decent sized market for engine controller entities to crop up and reverse engineer vintage ECU's into something that can keep an ICE firing all cylinders and running smoothly. As long as it's generally computer code, why can't that be easily maintained/copied forever?

Hardware is harder to copy/maintain forever especially as it becomes more complex. Sensors will be difficult, but they are generally shared across numerous product lines and thus should be available for some time. If there are any Viper specific sensors or unique hardware items, those would be the ones to collect now. I recall Mark Jorgensen putting together a list a while back about such things. It was fairly limited if I recall, as most items are available on other FCA products.

Edit: I found the prior thread: https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...t=crank+sensor

I also took a quick look at items on eBay, and most of the compiled list in the aforementioned thread are shared items. I did however find a used MAF sensor (that looks Viper specific) for $20 and bought it Crank and cam sensors seem shared. Wheel speed sensors might not be, that seems odd.

Someone should try to put together a spreadsheet of the items identified so far, with the part numbers, current MSRP, and which other FCA products share the part.

Like others, I'm not so interested in things like carbon parts or wheels, as those will not keep our cars from running and can be sourced from plenty of aftermarket places. I'm mainly interested in items in which the OEM is the only source and the car cannot run without it (which again, I don't think is many, but would be interested in knowing).

[ViperSmith]

Right to repair laws will continue to be passed requiring Car manufacturers to keep the software available even after support is over. The good thing about Gen V's is Dodge never put the additional security requirements that 2015+ Challengers and Chargers have which requires mailing a PCM to be unlocked or an additional tool to bypass like on 18+'s now. The way dealerconnect/serviceconnect or whatever it's called is setup is that they don't need to maintain hardware anymore or push out updates to separate peices of equipment. You plug into OBD2 and the same answers and diag are there just like if you plugged in some mid 2000's regular Chrysler product.

For parts? That's the major issue, but at that point it's across all cars. MOTEC will always be an option.

The assumption is "right to repair" will be retroactive, it won't. I (sadly) think we are in an era where all these awesome cars will be useless in 20 years. Policy (federally) hasn't caught up to the technology. There is no reason for Dodge to maintain dealer connect at this point for the Viper (lets be honest) other than good will. Not that I see them killing it anytime soon.

Hell, when I added the HK aftermarket sound to my 2015, when they enabled the option in dealer connect it virtually bricked the car. Imagine having to do that in a decade and there is no one left to support it.

Ideally, once a car is "discontinued" all firmware should be open sourced. The Vipers ECU is closed source and Dodge doesn't even have the ability to do so.

Not trying to be a debbie downer, but there are huge hurtles with modern electronics and keeping them on the road. I don't think it will be figured out, because the incentive doesn't exist.

I'd love to be proven wrong.