Viper resales

[SharpMan]

I was going to weight in on the value conversation as I do find it somewhat interesting but instead I'll advance that if you don't enjoy the drive then buy something else. Cars generally suck as investments...even the ones that appreciate.

Here I go...I do think a 2017 ACR-E will be something coveted one day. When and how much? Anybody's guess. In the interim I will only be happy if it's something I enjoy driving and owning. So I plan on keeping my Viper as I love it...not because it may or may not hold its value or even go up in value over however many years...

[Coloviper]

You never know what a car will be or sell for. If I was smart, years ago I should have pulled the trigger on a great low mile 360 Challenge Stradale but I didn’t. They shot up in price big time at about $50k increase. A couple years ago I should have pulled the trigger on a low mile 08’ Aston Martin DBS, Casino Royale and Manual. Didn’t and they have shot up about $25k in last year as it gets closer to JB 25. You just never know, even when you suspect and think you know.

Drive what excites you and brings passion in your life. There are no guarantees in life. Vipers go up and Vipers go down. Hell Viper Exchange will bounce the price on the same car $20k between ups and downs in the same month.

The thing that turns potential owners off are massive, massive mods and questionable history. It turns me off. Time will tell how Viper does but if you have one, any Gen, just enjoy it. Nobody who lost a little money or broke even on a sale of their car said man am I glad I didn’t drive it more. There will always be regret. In the future none of these cars may be worth anything. Then again I believe if they sell for their original MRSP they will do awesome. The most they will ever, ever sell for is 50% to 100% of their MRSP in the future. This is not a $7k MRSP 70 Hemi Cuda now selling for $250k. We will never see that appreciation ever again in current car collecting with current cars. Gen 5s will do a slowed new car depreciation for awhile but should do well over time. Older Gens are appreciating but is supply and demand. A lot of young people don’t even care to drive these days so demand may just not be there for any combustion vehicle. I will hopefully be below grade when that happens and my kids will be in the minority of young adults that actually want to drive. Should be exciting for them as no demand, they will be able to cherry pick some awesome rides if they land a good paying job.

[Murpowa]

Winner. As with most things in life, it's all about timing. During any given month, on any given year, average selling prices will fluctuate. Are average prices a shade lower this month (at the height of winter) than they were 6 months ago? Perhaps. Does it say anything about average prices 6 months from now, or 6 years from now? Of course not. If anyone thinks otherwise, then they clearly do not own any investments.

That said, prices are going up over the mid to longer term. We've talked about the reasons for this ad nauseam (increasing size of global market wants a piece of Americana, increased wealth among elites, increased shift to collectible cars as store of value, limited production volume, end of naturally aspirated V10 and manual shift cars, end of fossil fuel burners, noteworthy hisstory, lap records, etc., etc., etc.).

Notable American cars from the '60's and '70's in original condition and in mint shape are already in the stratosphere. '80's and '90's cars are moving now -- go look for a clean '92 or a '96 b/w and you'll see that you'll be paying more this year than a few years ago. Scoop one while you still can. '00's and '10's will be next. The more limited the production and the more rare the build, the quicker and greater the rise in market prices. That's actual history that you can verify right now -- not some wild speculation.

(READ: Scott still remains confident that ACR's will be the next Ford GT worth $500k price tags)

[SharpMan]

(READ: Scott still remains confident that ACR's will be the next Ford GT worth $500k price tags)

The Ford GT values puzzle me more than a bit. I mean they made 3,000 of them and the cheapest one on Cars.com right now has an asking of $240,000...

[ACRSNK]

The Ford GT values puzzle me more than a bit. I mean they made 3,000 of them and the cheapest one on Cars.com right now has an asking of $240,000...

Actually they built 4038 between 2005 & 2006. They built 4X more of those than Gen V ACR's, but I would still love to have one.

[Gen3CoupeTX]

Mark, if you're so certain of your position, perhaps you're interested in selling me a 10-year call option on SE's with an MSRP strike?

The deal, if I elect to exercise the option anytime before Jan 2029, would require you to source an SE car with less than 10k mi. (in condition befitting of the mileage) and sell it to me at the 2017 window MSRP. For that, I'm willing to put $5k in your pocket today. Sound good?

Now here is a person who knows a thing or two about Options trading! That's almost as exciting as driving a Viper ... Can't afford to be fuzzy-headed while doing either.

[ViperJon]

The Ford GT values puzzle me more than a bit. I mean they made 3,000 of them and the cheapest one on Cars.com right now has an asking of $240,000...

There's always a bunch of FGT's for sale. I doubt there are too many changing hands at those figures. They seem to have peaked price wise unless it's a very special one and buying in now is wayyyyy late to the party.

[Scott_in_fl]

The Ford GT values puzzle me more than a bit. I mean they made 3,000 of them and the cheapest one on Cars.com right now has an asking of $240,000...

I think it has to do with the design of the car and the public admiration that it eventually garnered. When it came out, just like the NFGT today, it was an absolute show stopper. People literally followed those cars into parking lots to take pics, or slammed an illegal u-turn in the middle of traffic to pursue one for a closer look. That genuine "wow" factor is something we all remember, it was a dream car for its era, and now that halo image has remained regardless of its age. We thus perceive it to be an object of everyone's desire.

The '92 Viper had that impact when it came out, but it quickly became trashed by the media and labeled as dangerous, poor driving, cheaply constructed, etc. The middle years did nothing to address the negative perception, Corvette improved their game and brand (especially with Corvette Racing) and started to provide what the public perceived to be a much better product.

Thus, I think Gen V is somewhat hindered by its past. Had FCA only released Gen I for '92 and '93 (i.e. a 2-year run like the FGT in '04 and '05), and then waited 25 years to release only the Gen V ACR for '16 and '17, then I think we'd be looking at a very different value proposition.

Going forward, as the market for these cars becomes driven more by enthusiasts and collectors (rather than speculators), we will see the cars become locked down and unavailable. The volume is low enough (800 total ACR's) that these cars will become extremely rare and difficult to purchase at some point.

[Vegaskid]

I may be putting my car up for sale shortly so I can let everybody know how much money I've lost...

The one thing I won't lose is the joy of driving my car instead of letting it sit in the garage collecting dust

[simon455]

It’s like saving the gf for the next guy...lol
I think these will eventually fetch some decent coin but at that time we won’t be much interested in them anymore, there will be another viper or a Chrysler family product aimed at us, maybe even a few, we will move on to them. At that point some younger generation will playing around with them and paying few bucks for them.

[Matt Dillon]

Seriously I turned down $135K on mine just today from a guy that approached me.

You Probably should have took that offer! JMO!

[Shooter]

Considering the cars are 2 years old now, and that you can still get MSRP, is pretty outstanding. Show me other cars in this category that will hold like that.

While I don't have a dog in this hunt reference the ACR price discussion, you apparently have never seen the ludicrous prices used GT3 RS's regularly bring. And it sucks because I want one in the worst way, but not $200-300k over original MSRP.

[commandomatt]

While I don't have a dog in this hunt reference the ACR price discussion, you apparently have never seen the ludicrous prices used GT3 RS's regularly bring. And it sucks because I want one in the worst way, but not $200-300k over original MSRP.

You are right. The Porsche isn't just holding but pricing is going strong. I should have said, with the exception of a selective few, most cars in this category tank in value

[chris_lee]

You never know what a car will be or sell for. If I was smart, years ago I should have pulled the trigger on a great low mile 360 Challenge Stradale but I didn’t. They shot up in price big time at about $50k increase. A couple years ago I should have pulled the trigger on a low mile 08’ Aston Martin DBS, Casino Royale and Manual. Didn’t and they have shot up about $25k in last year as it gets closer to JB 25. You just never know, even when you suspect and think you know.

Drive what excites you and brings passion in your life. There are no guarantees in life. Vipers go up and Vipers go down. Hell Viper Exchange will bounce the price on the same car $20k between ups and downs in the same month.

The thing that turns potential owners off are massive, massive mods and questionable history. It turns me off. Time will tell how Viper does but if you have one, any Gen, just enjoy it. Nobody who lost a little money or broke even on a sale of their car said man am I glad I didn’t drive it more. There will always be regret. In the future none of these cars may be worth anything. Then again I believe if they sell for their original MRSP they will do awesome. The most they will ever, ever sell for is 50% to 100% of their MRSP in the future. This is not a $7k MRSP 70 Hemi Cuda now selling for $250k. We will never see that appreciation ever again in current car collecting with current cars. Gen 5s will do a slowed new car depreciation for awhile but should do well over time. Older Gens are appreciating but is supply and demand. A lot of young people don’t even care to drive these days so demand may just not be there for any combustion vehicle. I will hopefully be below grade when that happens and my kids will be in the minority of young adults that actually want to drive. Should be exciting for them as no demand, they will be able to cherry pick some awesome rides if they land a good paying job.

Man, everything you just said is spot on! I also agree with the point about the current youth. My son is 17 and we basically had to force him to get a drivers license. Now, when I imagine myself at 16 years old and my dad has a Viper sitting in the garage that I could potentially drive... I WOULD BE ALL OVER THAT SHIT. Nope, now it's living vicariously through instagram with no life experiences. But yea, I can see the market potentially being hard to predict 10 years from now when these kids care even less about this stuff.

I think the Twin Turbo supra is going to be a good analog for these cars. Low production, easy to maintain, manual tranny, very unique. Lotus Exige is also a similar analog. It's the perfect combination for "at least" very slow depreciation. I bought my Gen V almost one year ago and since then I have not seen any better deals. Same thing happened to the Supra and Exige when prices started to bottom out.

I kept the miles off my last car and when I went to sell it, that got me about 5k more... should have just drove the piss out of it. Only live once so enjoy it while you can. Look what happened to baseball cards when the next generation didn't give a shit about them... Long term it's going to be hard to predict, but I don't see these cars going down until guys like me "40" get too old to buy their dream car. There is just not enough of them around.

[FrankBarba]

I hear you Chris_Lee...When I was 15 my dad had a 69 Corvette. I dreamed of driving this every day.
I washed it, waxed her, cleaned her up every time my dad went for a drive. The day I turned 16 and
came home with my drivers license the Corvette was gone. He sold it. I was so pi$$ed.

[dewilmoth]

While I don't have a dog in this hunt reference the ACR price discussion, you apparently have never seen the ludicrous prices used GT3 RS's regularly bring. And it sucks because I want one in the worst way, but not $200-300k over original MSRP.

3RS have done well, but not $2-300k over MSRP well. Unless maybe you’re talking about the 2011 4.0, but that’s a special case. 991.1 are easy to find under MSRP now, and I suspect 991.2 will be in less than a year.

[Creatre]

I'm not one to sit on cars for resale, but do think the Vipers will do well with time. There just is not another raw car that offers sidepipes and a topless experience. I personally think the Gen 1 and Gen 3 will do the best in the future.

I think they will track similar to the NSX, where it took a good bit of time after the end of production until people realized, oh...there isn't going to be another one of these or any car with this experience. Supra was influenced by media with Fast and Furious and the tuner crowd, I don't think the car would have done so well otherwise. Hell, the car appreciated by about $10k when Paul Walker died. I know this from experience because I owned a MK4 and made a $10k profit and owned the car about 10 months.

[ACRSNK]

I'm not one to sit on cars for resale, but do think the Vipers will do well with time. There just is not another raw car that offers sidepipes and a topless experience. I personally think the Gen 1 and Gen 3 will do the best in the future.

I think they will track similar to the NSX, where it took a good bit of time after the end of production until people realized, oh...there isn't going to be another one of these or any car with this experience. Supra was influenced by media with Fast and Furious and the tuner crowd, I don't think the car would have done so well otherwise. Hell, the car appreciated by about $10k when Paul Walker died. I know this from experience because I owned a MK4 and made a $10k profit and owned the car about 10 months.

I understand the argument that Gen I's may be worth something in the future, but Gen 3?....not so much.

[SharpMan]

I understand the argument that Gen I's may be worth something in the future, but Gen 3?....not so much.

Although it's often the ones that were unloved in their era that shoot up later...Yenko Camaro, 996 GT3, Porsche 964, 348s are on the rise but that's an "all ships rise with the tide" scenario I think...

A nice Mamba or First Edition GENIII will probably experience some of the 348 type appreciation in time...assuming the rest of Vipers go up in Value. That said, I would agree that the GENIII offers nothing uniquely appealing vs a GENIV.

[Scott_in_fl]

I think it's Gen I and then Gen V. Both are notable, but for different reasons. Gen I was a true story car re: how it came to exist and how a company took a big gamble and won.

Gen II, III, IV were more of a "hey, we have the tooling, let's keep making cars" approach even though the market really wasn't interested.

Gen V came on the stage like an awesome band that shows up after the audience has already gone home because they lost interest with the openers. It put on an amazing show, and now the people who missed it want them to come back and play it again one more night.

Luckily, a few of us were there for the late night show, rocked out, and took home an amazing souvenir.

[bluesrt]

no way those early cars are gonna be worth anything, the gen 4 cars and gen v acr cars are gonna be it, like a midyear corvette

[ViperJon]

no way those early cars are gonna be worth anything, the gen 4 cars and gen v acr cars are gonna be it, like a midyear corvette

I have to agree. Younger people today who have never known life without the Internet, Bluetooth, Navigation etc are going to want a rudimentary kit car like a Gen 1?
And create a groundswell of demand required to drive prices higher? No way. 27 years later and flat lined as ever.

[ACRSNK]

I'm pretty sure some of the Gen II's will be worth something someday. The styling for the Gen V is a throwback to the Gen II, which to many is Viper perfection. Nothing like a Gen II ACR to keep the Gen V ACR company, except maybe a Gen IV ACR.

[Matt Dillon]

For reference, you are correct that no one has given me an offer I'm willing to accept. I'm pretty firm on price, don't need to sell and think the car is worth way more anyways. I just don't like cars sitting around. I have had a total of 5 offers (including 2 dealers) willing to buy the car right at $135k or more, but I've turned them all down. I've also had a few dozen offers below 135k. Everyone buying right now is looking for a deal. If they want an incredible deal, they can go get one that isn't in as good of condition. 2016 models, more miles, not custom, stories... those are the only ones that those buyers will end up with. I have been watching the 2017's for sale in the last couple months, and of the 3 listed at 140k or lower, they have all sold almost in a matter of a couple weeks. I know that one sold for `138k and a non-custom sold for 137k. I also know that someone is buying the competition blue 2017 at Viper Exchange which is listed at 149k, but not sure what they are paying.

Anyways, hope that gives you some insight. I did take my nephew out in it around the block the other day, but he was more interested in my Mclaren--he's 10 and still learning.

WOW, a OneofOneViper AND a McLaren! I'm Impressed

[Matt Dillon]

I have to agree. Younger people today who have never known life without the Internet, Bluetooth, Navigation etc are going to want a rudimentary kit car like a Gen 1?
And create a groundswell of demand required to drive prices higher? No way. 27 years later and flat lined as ever.

I also Agree Jon, though Not So Much about the Gen 4 cars, but IF you've ever driven a Gen V there's NO Comparison with the other Gen's, not to mention the Bluetooth, Navigation, etc....! Just a Different Car all together JMO