take a 9 0 liter ACR to nurburgring

[Jprince]

I just finished reading the long thread over on corvette forums about the attempt at the record with LG motorsports car. The list of mods on the car was unreal but they insisted that it was all fair and ALL other brands turn up their cars and even the viper were NOT stock. I could not believe all the BS that was said over there. There attempt had a lot of problems, mostly being too loud and getting kicked off the track multiple times, which does not surprise me after going to the 1/2 mile event and hearing how obnoxiously loud the corvettes were. There best lap wound up with a 7:35. Of course the excuses rolled out and lack of power and traffic were the main 2. They had modded a motor to make well over 700rwhp but had to knock it back down with exhaust but they still admitted it was still more than stock.
If they can take a car over there that has been modded to that extent and say its within stock parameters. I would love to be able to see a funded attempt to take a 9 liter setup with whatever tires, suspension it takes to just see what the viper has potential to do. The corvette guys commented that the viper attempt was maxed out but they weren't even close. lol
After seeing all the cars at the 1/2 mile event, I can tell you that the viper is hands down the most impressive there being able to run the speed that it does and be so docile and with full street tires and street capabilities. I know that is a different setup, but its just another thing the viper has proven to do well.
Any of you big track guys ever think about taking your built viper to the ring?

[TrackAire]

If I'm understanding your post, you need to know it was never meant to be a "production car" record attempt. LG knows that there is a lot of cheating by manufacturers claiming stock cars....they are in the business of selling aftermarket parts and were trying to market this attempt to gain more business. The Z06 modded by LG Motorsports was never meant to be stock, take a stock production record or anything like that. It started as more of a tuner challenge here in the USA and became a shit show once it started. The promise of Ring track time, free shipping to Germany, etc is what got LG committed.

The goal was to try to be the first to get the new C7 below the 7 minute mark since GM has failed the Corvette yet did a stellar job with the new Camaro ZL1 1LE at the Ring. There are thousands of posts on the corvetteforum arguing about C7 Ring times, if they matter, if they don't, if they cheat, if others cheat, etc, etc. Welcome of the beer google world of Vette owners. 99% of Vettes sold will never be taken to the track....But the owners think a spirited mountain road drive makes them experts on the track and what the car is capable of. Being the corvetteforum, you will get all sorts of opinions, stupidity, excuses, etc. etc.

I truly believe that a stock ACR-E could have gone under 7:00 minutes with the right conditions. A modded Viper might be 5 to 8 seconds faster due to the better acceleration curve, especially on the long straight. I don't think added power will be as measurable on the curves, etc where downforce and especially tire grip (and life) are key. I would love to see somebody try with a modded Viper and am also willing to contribute to the attempt as we did a couple of years ago.

[Jprince]

It was actually Lou that made the comment that the vipers used were NOT straight off the production line. He is also the one that made the comment several times that the corvette they built was NOT beyond what they considered a stock ZR1. He had also pointed out that the corvette was not in the lineup of production car lap times at the ring and he was trying to change that, which I did not understand how they could consider that to be a comparison at all. All the other idiots that always make comments of how nothing can EVER beat a corvette, all I can do is lmao. I don't have a problem with the corvette, just the attitude that a lot of the owners and enthusiast have and the lack of knowledge of what other cars out there can do. There is a long list of cars that I would love to have,(not a corvette) but I would not get rid of my viper to have one.

[FLATOUT]

Maybe I should call Lou and set him straight. The Viper record attempt was one of the most, if not the most accessible record run for media members ever. We had magazines basically imbedded with the group the entire time. We also had to do almost ALL of our testing during industry pool hours which meant Porsche, Aston, Bugatti, Toyota, and Lotus all had the opportunity to look our cars over and we welcomed it.

The Viper ACR attempt of 2017 was one of the most legitimate attempts done in the last 5 years or so.


Andy

It was actually Lou that made the comment that the vipers used were NOT straight off the production line. He is also the one that made the comment several times that the corvette they built was NOT beyond what they considered a stock ZR1. He had also pointed out that the corvette was not in the lineup of production car lap times at the ring and he was trying to change that, which I did not understand how they could consider that to be a comparison at all. All the other idiots that always make comments of how nothing can EVER beat a corvette, all I can do is lmao. I don't have a problem with the corvette, just the attitude that a lot of the owners and enthusiast have and the lack of knowledge of what other cars out there can do. There is a long list of cars that I would love to have,(not a corvette) but I would not get rid of my viper to have one.

[TrackAire]

Maybe I should call Lou and set him straight. The Viper record attempt was one of the most, if not the most accessible record run for media members ever. We had magazines basically imbedded with the group the entire time. We also had to do almost ALL of our testing during industry pool hours which meant Porsche, Aston, Bugatti, Toyota, and Lotus all had the opportunity to look our cars over and we welcomed it.

The Viper ACR attempt of 2017 was one of the most legitimate attempts done in the last 5 years or so.


Andy

I think of Lou as the Archie Bunker of the aftermarket tuner world.

I believe Lou really does live in his own world and it's either his way or the highway. After reading a lot of his posts and rants on the corvetteforum, IMO he seems to be a bit of a dick. He lost his shit when another vendor started doing mono ball A-Arms.....Lou felt since he already sold them nobody else should be able to, lol. Having said that, I am a customer of LG Motorsports because he does make certain products for my track car that nobody else does (like billet drop spindles).

Regarding setting Lou straight, I posted exactly what you just said and also posted both of Dale Lomas' videos regarding all the cheating that goes on at the Ring regarding "production car" attempts and how impressed he was with the ACR-E attempt and it truly being a factory production car on the corvetteforum months ago. I explained that it was probably the most transparent Ring attempt ever done. Nobody would comment on the video's done by an expert that pretty much lives at the Ring that the ACR-E attempt was as factory as it gets. Some Vette owners get it, the majority have their head in the sand.

[Arizona Vipers]

I think of Lou as the Archie Bunker of the aftermarket tuner world.

I believe Lou really does live in his own world and it's either his way or the highway. After reading a lot of his posts and rants on the corvetteforum, IMO he seems to be a bit of a dick. He lost his shit when another vendor started doing mono ball A-Arms.....Lou felt since he already sold them nobody else should be able to, lol. Having said that, I am a customer of LG Motorsports because he does make certain products for my track car that nobody else does (like billet drop spindles).

Regarding setting Lou straight, I posted exactly what you just said and also posted both of Dale Lomas' videos regarding all the cheating that goes on at the Ring regarding "production car" attempts and how impressed he was with the ACR-E attempt and it truly being a factory production car on the corvetteforum months ago. I explained that it was probably the most transparent Ring attempt ever done. Nobody would comment on the video's done by an expert that pretty much lives at the Ring that the ACR-E attempt was as factory as it gets. Some Vette owners get it, the majority have their head in the sand.

LOL on the archie bunker comment! So what do the vette guys think? That we cheated? How? Running heads/cam? It would be very hard to take weight off the ACR without anyone seeing it.

[Racingswh]

I am not sure why Lou thought it was a good idea to try a Ring attempt? Doesn't seem to me like the return on investment math would work.

I like both cars although I am not a fan of the new ZR1 aesthetically. I don't like the front and I don't like the wing. In contrast everything about the ACR-E just looks incredible to me.

While cool I am not sure what the financial benefit would be to taking a 9.0 over? It's an extremely expensive endeavor and in order to put down a fast time you need the right driver, good weather and no traffic. A 9.0 owner without Ring experience would have a hard time putting down a competitive time there.

I think Stradman will experience it at some point but it's doubtful, even if his driving skill and car can manage it, that he would get a lap clear enough to put down a time that starts with a 6.

[Terminator02]

IIRC blowing out the stock tires was the issue likely secondary to down force. The tires would get slaughtered on a 9.0L I would imagine

[Jprince]

LOL on the archie bunker comment! So what do the vette guys think? That we cheated? How? Running heads/cam? It would be very hard to take weight off the ACR without anyone seeing it.

According to what most vette guys think, there is no way a viper can beat their corvette. Or any car for that matter. They will do whatever they can to win. The funniest thing is the verbal horsepower war. I have more power than you so I must be faster. LOL. I hear it all the time. Just go to the wannagofast website and look at some of the HP claims versus how fast they actually ran Its quite funny. But most of the guys claiming the big numbers will never go run somewhere to prove it.
I would just love to see the viper show its full potential at the ring with some mods and the best tire available.

One of the other things that Lou said was that he already set records here in the US that still stand. I'm not sure what track and if that record is just against other vettes or would include all cars.

[TrackAire]

LOL on the archie bunker comment! So what do the vette guys think? That we cheated? How? Running heads/cam? It would be very hard to take weight off the ACR without anyone seeing it.

I equate most modern Vette owners who are on the forums to dealing with a very drunk girl at a party. No matter what you explain, no matter how logical your debate is they just live in their own world and are impossible to reason with. You get ridiculous responses, rambling, thoughts of grandeur and assumptions based on a Corvette brochure.

There are a lot of Vette owners that track, race and understand the laws of physics and get it, lots of good guys over there...but due to the shear volume of Vette owners on the forum it's a small number. The majority want to argue and brag about lap records or magazine reviews when the Vette does good but argue that a Ring time doesn't matter since GM obviously doesn't believe anybody that buys a Vette cares about Ring times. Yet the Camaro team does Ring attempts and is impressive there.

A lot of the Vette guys made numerous excuses as to why the ACR-E is so fast,.....cheater tires, front splitter extension that is not road legal, giant wing that looks stupid, SRT did "special" mods to the cars, etc, etc.

I'm not brand loyal and love the majority of high performance cars out there....I don't have blinders on and look at cars that are measurably better as ways to improve other cars. Competition is great. A lot of Vette owners don't agree with me, lol.

[serpent]

If anything Dodge should have worked closely with Michelin to produce a tire that is head and shoulders above the rest. Aka the tires on the GT2RS and GT3RS both of which run sub 7 min times at the ring. But honestly you cannot expect to beat the German cars at their own turf, especially if they have 100% access to the track while everyone else has to get an okay-go/no go.

[TrackAire]

If anything Dodge should have worked closely with Michelin to produce a tire that is head and shoulders above the rest. Aka the tires on the GT2RS and GT3RS both of which run sub 7 min times at the ring. But honestly you cannot expect to beat the German cars at their own turf, especially if they have 100% access to the track while everyone else has to get an okay-go/no go.

Dodge left Michelin hanging and owing them money when the government stepped in to bailout Dodge around 2009. There is no way Michelin is going to spend time and money developing a very small quantity and odd size tire for a company that screwed them and didn't pay their bills. I'm not sure if the relationship between FCA and Michelin has been repaired.

Ever wonder why Pirelli was the tire supplier for the Gen 5?......they're Italian, Fiat's Italian, Fiat owns Dodge.....

[13COBRA]

Dodge left Michelin hanging and owing them money when the government stepped in to bailout Dodge around 2009. There is no way Michelin is going to spend time and money developing a very small quantity and odd size tire for a company that screwed them and didn't pay their bills. I'm not sure if the relationship between FCA and Michelin has been repaired.

Ever wonder why Pirelli was the tire supplier for the Gen 5?......they're Italian, Fiat's Italian, Fiat owns Dodge.....

Exactly. It's unfortunate, but true.

Not to mention, there isn't a tire manufacturer in the world that would strap on some heavy R&D expense for an odd ball sized tire, that the majority of cars they will fit are not being produced any more.

[viperBase1]

I equate most modern Vette owners who are on the forums to dealing with a very drunk girl at a party. No matter what you explain, no matter how logical your debate is they just live in their own world and are impossible to reason with. You get ridiculous responses, rambling, thoughts of grandeur and assumptions based on a Corvette brochure.

+1

For the last 9 months I've been on the Corvette Forum researching everything I can about the C7 Grandsport w/A8 Transmission.
I got harangued a little bit for "Doing Research" and asking questions about my findings (which weren't good).
They drank the kool-aid and got their heads in the sand over there.

A little off topic..
but I learned about a L-O-N-G list of problems with the C7 (and particularly with the A8 Tranny). N' GM doesn't seem to give a shit.
With what I learned, I wouldn't even consider the C7 or the new C8 mid engine for years to come.

More than that, the Porsche Cayman S (987.2, 981 & maybe the 718) is a great answer to all of the issues with the C7 and C8.

[Heysie]

Is the claim for 100 HP loss with the dB killer they mounted on Lou's Corvette not a bit high?

[Arizona Vipers]

Is the claim for 100 HP loss with the dB killer they mounted on Lou's Corvette not a bit high?

[06SRTCoupe]

A 9.0L Extreme ACR-E with a better tire (R888R?) would be down in the 6:25 - 6:30 range....maybe even lower. This is a hypothetical to include a pro driver in the seat, testing time, and the full compliment of a funded couple weeks out there. Heck even on the stock Kuhmo's, the E would still be in the 6:40's...or quicker.

[TrackAire]

+1

For the last 9 months I've been on the Corvette Forum researching everything I can about the C7 Grandsport w/A8 Transmission.
I got harangued a little bit for "Doing Research" and asking questions about my findings (which weren't good).
They drank the kool-aid and got their heads in the sand over there.

A little off topic..
but I learned about a L-O-N-G list of problems with the C7 (and particularly with the A8 Tranny). N' GM doesn't seem to give a shit.
With what I learned, I wouldn't even consider the C7 or the new C8 mid engine for years to come.

More than that, the Porsche Cayman S (987.2, 981 & maybe the 718) is a great answer to all of the issues with the C7 and C8.

If I had to by a C7 for a track car, I would only by the Grand Sport with the manual.....hard to beat that combination with a few upgrades. I would only consider an auto if it was a DCT and proven to work. GM just doesn't have a traditional slush box that works on the track. Having said that, if I wanted a very fast track car that was disposable, you can't beat a C6 Z06 with some minor upgrades. Cheap, tons of aftermarket support and if it goes into the tire wall, oh well, just buy another one and transfer the aftermarket parts that weren't damaged. You can pretty much buy two C6 Z06's with decent upgrades for the price of one brand new loaded C7 Z06.....and be faster.

[Bryan Savage]

I just skimmed through all of the Corvette Forums post and let me get this straight...

Lou at LG Motorsports thought he was going to rock up to the Nurburgring with an extensively modified Corvette, set a sub-seven-minute lap time during a public session and put his car on the leaderboard for fastest factory cars?

No.

Just no.

I don't doubt Lou's talent. He's definitely faster than I'll ever be, and he got his car there and on track, which is awesome, but I can't get behind his justification for modifications saying things to the tune of "well, the Viper has a big wing and stuff, so my mods are still factory". Or, "Look, the 599XX is a 'factory tuned' car, so that's what I'll compete for too" thought process.

He should have just said "Hey Community, I've been making a bunch of cool parts for years and now I'm going to take a car to the Ring and run some fast laps for no record of any kind, but just because it's awesome." I'm fully for that. But don't compare your crazy 800hp Corvette to an OEM anything and say they're in the same class.

On the same token, taking a 9-liter Viper there would be awesome... for no other reason except it's awesome. But for any kind of official record? Nope.

[viperBase1]

If I had to by a C7 for a track car, I would only by the Grand Sport with the manual.....hard to beat that combination with a few upgrades.

Just don't take it the dealer for service. The Service Techs don't know how to drive a manual. They'll drive it into the wall, or back into a door, or have it stolen from the service bay, or (if A8) take it on a joy ride and blow the engine. I'm serious. Stories I've heard on the Corvette Forum.

I would only consider an auto if it was a DCT and proven to work. GM just doesn't have a traditional slush box that works on the track. Having said that, if I wanted a very fast track car that was disposable, you can't beat a C6 Z06 with some minor upgrades. Cheap, tons of aftermarket support and if it goes into the tire wall, oh well, just buy another one and transfer the aftermarket parts that weren't damaged. You can pretty much buy two C6 Z06's with decent upgrades for the price of one brand new loaded C7 Z06.....and be faster.

+1 again. My intention was to Track the crap out of it.

Cayman S in my not too distant future.

[Jprince]

I just skimmed through all of the Corvette Forums post and let me get this straight...

Lou at LG Motorsports thought he was going to rock up to the Nurburgring with an extensively modified Corvette, set a sub-seven-minute lap time during a public session and put his car on the leaderboard for fastest factory cars?

No.

Just no.

I don't doubt Lou's talent. He's definitely faster than I'll ever be, and he got his car there and on track, which is awesome, but I can't get behind his justification for modifications saying things to the tune of "well, the Viper has a big wing and stuff, so my mods are still factory". Or, "Look, the 599XX is a 'factory tuned' car, so that's what I'll compete for too" thought process.

He should have just said "Hey Community, I've been making a bunch of cool parts for years and now I'm going to take a car to the Ring and run some fast laps for no record of any kind, but just because it's awesome." I'm fully for that. But don't compare your crazy 800hp Corvette to an OEM anything and say they're in the same class.

On the same token, taking a 9-liter Viper there would be awesome... for no other reason except it's awesome. But for any kind of official record? Nope.

My thoughts exactly. He was making no sense on the thinking it should be considered stock. Apparently when the ACR was introduced, it was cheating, obviously because the corvette couldn't beat it, LOL

i just thought it would be really cool to have all the best mods available for a badass ACR and take it back to the ring and just see what it can do. The viper has proven to do a lot of things extremely well so far.

[Racingswh]

Just don't take it the dealer for service.

Cayman S in my not too distant future.

I for whatever reason have always had great success with both Dodge and GM regarding service.

The ACR-E and the service support that has come with it has been just amazing. Currently the right rear shock has started leaking. It's being replaced under warranty without hesitation.

My Wife had an M7 GS and we drove it at about 30 PCA track days last season. It was a fun car. Service was always fantastic. Cheap oil changes, track alignment done by the dealer who went out and bought the rear caster tool so they could align her car properly. They would discuss what service they thought I should consider and were happy to prepare her car for track events. They thought that was really cool actually.

I am not very fast but it really was a lot of fun for a reasonably priced street car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDmHxukhvI&t=512s

In the end my Wife still liked her C6Z track car better which was down last season receiving a new engine build and just couldn't get very excited about the C7GS so I got rid of it She likes kinda loud and a little scary and the C7GS certainly was not that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzvUE0KFwcM

I think Bryan is right as far as the Ring deal goes. For Lou just say you're doing it to show how durable, high quality and capable your parts are or something like that.

I think it's cool to make the trip and get some laps there. As soon as I can fit it into my schedule I would like to do the SPA and Ring track days. If I can go sub 10 at the Ring I will be happy!!

[viperBase1]

I for whatever reason have always had great success with both Dodge and GM regarding service.

Glad to hear of a more positive experience with a Chevy Dealer Service Dept.. I've heard SO many horror stories.

Apologies to the OP for this tangent on the thread... all my fault.

Yesterday GM announced a sizable lay-off and discontinuing production of 6 models.

IMHO, this is due to the huge list of problems (known & unknown) with the A8 Transmission.
They put the A8 transmission in 11 different production cars (including the C7 Corvette).
I'm predicting a huge recall that is going to be extremely expensive. Thus, the preemptive cost cutting measures.
Just my arm chair speculation on the matter.

[Racingswh]

Glad to hear of a more positive experience with a Chevy Dealer Service Dept.. I've heard SO many horror stories.

Apologies to the OP for this tangent on the thread... all my fault.

.

This thread has never really been about a specific point anyway I don't think other than a professionally driven 9.0 liter would be fast as hell at the Ring!

People with problems are often times more vocal. People like to complain about whatever. I imagine there are plenty of great service experiences you don't hear about regardless of marque.

[06SRTCoupe]

Can someone post the link to this thread on the Corvette Forum?