Gen V Stock Belanger Arrow Stage 1

[Bryan Savage]

Whelp, tomorrow is my dyno appointment, but it looks like the forecast temperature at 2pm is going to be around +25°F. I'm a little concerned about my Sport Cup 2s having any kind of roller grip in those temperatures. The dyno bay is next to the shop garage door, so it might be open during the test. Ain't no exhaust hoses gonna fit, you know?

Half of me wants to call it off and wait until the temps are warmer, but the other half just wants some results.

Anyone have any experience in cold-temperature dyno runs?

[Martin]

The one time I felt the dyno roller to see how warm it was, it was much warmer than the ambient temperature. Not sure if there's a difference dyno to dyno, but all that horsepower has to go someplace, and that's heat. Unless they are venting everything to the outside, the roller is going to experience heat soak and get nice and toasty. At least it did when I was in the shop.

[Vipes]

Have a fat guy sit in the trunk, problem solved.

[Gen5snake]

Anyone have any experience in cold-temperature dyno runs?

Yes, Nice cold dense air. The rollers should be fine as long as they aren't wet. Your tires/rollers will heat up after a couple runs...and of course there's Vipes solution.

[sadil]

The straps should help you out too. Not sure if there are some techniques to strapping that help during cold weather. Can always sit inside trunk, that’s what it’s for. I use mine to tailgate, makes an awesome lawn chair for two.

[Jack B]

Here are issues:

1. The viper's abrupt torque can cause some slippage.

2. If the straps are horizontal, that is worst case scenario. If the dyno is above ground, you can usually get some angle on the straps.

2. All rollers are not the same, as they get used, over time, the rollers can be worn smooth, that is not good.

3. A little trick is to lock the car down so the tire contact point is at 10 o'clock on the roller. If you get up around 12, you are more apt to slip.

4. Do not start the pull under 3000, the lower you start the more apt you are to slip.

As we discussed make sure you get a plot or can plot speed vs rpm, this will tell you if you are slipping since you will not always know you are slipping, however, it will show up as low hp/tq.

[cashcorn]

I can't imagine the the tires spinning on the dyno in 4th under 3k rpm.^^^^ Maybe, warm up the tires & car. Then hammer down at 4k rpm in 4th. Thats my kill zone! cheers. Looking forward to your results!

[Jack B]

I can't imagine the the tires spinning on the dyno in 4th under 3k rpm.^^^^ Maybe, warm up the tires & car. Then hammer down at 4k rpm in 4th. Thats my kill zone! cheers. Looking forward to your results!

I have been on four different dyno's and I have had varying degrees of slip on all four. In some cases you can be down 2-5% hp and not know it is slipping, especially if the dyno operator is not looking for the slip. I also think the reason the G5 some time does better on pull 3 and 4 is due to the tires heating up.

[Bryan Savage]

Well, here we are. Here are today's runs:
Day's Runs.jpg

And then today's runs overlaid with seven runs from the previous sessions. I guess they can only overlay ten runs at a time. Today's runs are #9, #10, and #11.
All Together.jpg

If you only compare the highest run from each session I rolled, Belanger headers with catless straight pipes and an Arrow Stage 1 Controller got me 13 hp and 32 ft-lbs.

We looked at graphs of rpm/mph and the lines were totally linear, implying no slippage. It was cold outside, but they ran the car inside with the doors closed. EVIC reading showed IAT at 80°F, but this reading was not logged.

Looking at the "all on one" graph, the aqua line was today's first run, when the car was coldest. I can see a healthy gain in both power and torque, all across the entire rev range. The next two runs dropped right into the mess of usual runs.

I also measured 120 dB as you can see in the below video.

All I conclude is what I was originally thinking... bolt-ons do very little.

[Gen5snake]

Being new to the viper scene, it looks to me like the stock equipment is optimized. If you added forced induction or modified heads/cam, I bet you would see good gains with the headers/exhaust. Thanks for posting your experience.

[parabs]

Interesting results Bryan, thanks for the detail in this and all your posts!

[cashcorn]

I had the same results with 1k miles on the car. Now is the time to do an hptune.. hptune tune with belangers/hi flows & stock mufflers after 1k miles 602rwhp/580rwtq.

[J TNT]

Good set of data collection points Bryan , thanks for sharing !

[Steve M]

[wakebum2507]

This is interesting, because your torque numbers are so low. I know every dyno is different, but the torque on my FBO gen IV with Belanger high flows is significantly higher. Just odd. 03EC24D7-C403-4168-ADF4-1548C412F08E.jpg

[Jack B]

Just a guess, the torque stops climbing at 4500, then, recovers, this is either a tune issue or slippage. It would look much worse if the smoothing was not so high.

[RedTanRT/10]

Wakebum, you have an unusual amount of trq to hp. Most every G4 I’ve seen (stock or with bolt-ons, porting) have 5% less trq then hp

[v10tt]

Bryan, you NEED a Custom TUNE.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...ighlight=v10tt

Well, here we are. Here are today's runs:

If you only compare the highest run from each session I rolled, Belanger headers with catless straight pipes and an Arrow Stage 1 Controller got me 13 hp and 32 ft-lbs.
IAT at 80°F, but this reading was not logged.

All I conclude is what I was originally thinking... bolt-ons do very little.

[Caldermw]

B - Thanks a TON for sharing this data with the forum. Your data set establishes a baseline for us all to work from when considering upgrades. You da man!!

[Bryan Savage]

Being new to the viper scene, it looks to me like the stock equipment is optimized. If you added forced induction or modified heads/cam, I bet you would see good gains with the headers/exhaust. Thanks for posting your experience.

LOL modifications are slippery slope. Cars are just so good anymore that you really have to drop a lot of coin to get more power.

Interesting results Bryan, thanks for the detail in this and all your posts!

Good set of data collection points Bryan , thanks for sharing !

B - Thanks a TON for sharing this data with the forum. Your data set establishes a baseline for us all to work from when considering upgrades. You da man!!

Fo sho!!

I had the same results with 1k miles on the car. Now is the time to do an hptune.. hptune tune with belangers/hi flows & stock mufflers after 1k miles 602rwhp/580rwtq.

Bryan, you NEED a Custom TUNE. https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...ighlight=v10tt

Custom tune seems the only way to fly.

This is interesting, because your torque numbers are so low. I know every dyno is different, but the torque on my FBO gen IV with Belanger high flows is significantly higher. Just odd.

Your torque numbers are high as balls! You sure you don't have a diesel? lol

Just a guess, the torque stops climbing at 4500, then, recovers, this is either a tune issue or slippage. It would look much worse if the smoothing was not so high.

The dyno tech and I looked at half a dozen runs and saw linear mph vs. RPM graphs. Dunno what to tell you.


All this information has been published before, but it's human nature to reinvent the wheel at every opportunity. The dealer with the dyno only charges $90 for three runs. I've offered them extra money so the tech gets compensated for spending more time on my car, since it requires more care than most, but they won't take it. Therefore, I know the tech is only getting paid an hour to work with me. I'm not going to make him spend four hours tweaking everything to my liking to get what I want.

I've not looked, but there's probably some place reasonably close to me that will charge me straight time to mess around, and that's what I need.

What I would also like to see is somebody with a completely stock Viper do a custom HP Tuners or Torrie tune and see what they get. I know my exhaust mods aren't worthless, but what is the actual stacked value in my efforts?

[dirtyboot]

Well, here we are. Here are today's runs:
Day's Runs.jpg

And then today's runs overlaid with seven runs from the previous sessions. I guess they can only overlay ten runs at a time. Today's runs are #9, #10, and #11.
All Together.jpg

If you only compare the highest run from each session I rolled, Belanger headers with catless straight pipes and an Arrow Stage 1 Controller got me 13 hp and 32 ft-lbs.
...
Looking at the "all on one" graph, the aqua line was today's first run, when the car was coldest. I can see a healthy gain in both power and torque, all across the entire rev range. The next two runs dropped right into the mess of usual runs.
...
All I conclude is what I was originally thinking... bolt-ons do very little.

Just a guess, the torque stops climbing at 4500, then, recovers, this is either a tune issue or slippage. It would look much worse if the smoothing was not so high.

I agree with Jack.

While first glance gets lost in the noise between your efforts, your runs average peak tq 13-17 higher than the others in your graph depending on if you count the first run as an outlier or not. Even when overlaid with your prior runs, the lowest dip in your torque curve from yesterday's runs only gets lost in the upper limit of the noise from prior runs at 4.2-4.7k rpm. You see the same dip into noise is true on your hp figures in that range. Otherwise, if you could highlight those 3 so they show vs the noise easier, you'll see they still show some limit of gain under the curve from your prior runs, then taper into the noise at the upper end. Average 0-5hp peak gain again dependent on the outlier, but carrying what appears to be ~13hp higher through the middle of the curve aside from that dip. It's not a lot in peak numbers, but going from good hfc to no-cat won't net you a ton in the first place. The real gain I see in your graph is 3.3-5.1k rpm, with a possible flaw from 4.2-4.7k. Hard to tell if that's human, tune, or mechanical error from it only being evident in run 11 to me.

[cubeman]

Haven't we done bolt on differences in earlier threads and there is a 20-30HP Gain with Arrow and more with HPTuners? It's what led me to leave Arrow. If the weather jumps into the 50's like it should next week here in NY I can see about also doing a Dyno with ARH Headers/Cats/Exhaust/HPTuners

[Jack B]

As we know, all dyno's are diff, if exclude a few high/questionable numbers, several carS have shown 590-600 hp with HPT.

[v10tt]

This from my Bolt on days:
Mods: Full Belangers headers with Cats and cat-back , KN filter, Ud pulley and smooth tubes.

Arrow tune vs HP tune, same day, same dyno, 3 hours apart.

torrie 1.jpg

Mid range gains from Arrow to HP tune.
torrie mid range.jpg

[cubeman]

This from my Bolt on days:
Mods: Full Belangers headers with Cats and cat-back , KN filter, Ud pulley and smooth tubes.

Arrow tune vs HP tune, same day, same dyno, 3 hours apart.

torrie 1.jpg

Mid range gains from Arrow to HP tune.
torrie mid range.jpg

This was what leaned me to begin with not only when getting off arrow, but go HPTuners.