Who makes sells the nice stone gaurds

[SA Heat]

You should go check the Viper Alley out.

This... the sensitive types wouldn't last 10 minutes over there.

[SilverACR]

You should go check the Viper Alley out.

Do vendors belittle potential or existing customers over there? I’m blown away that a customer had to apologize and be the bigger person here. The vendon should have simply stated “hey, we make a fantastic part and we have a lot of time and work in it, so I’m sorry you find the cost a little high. We’ll see what we can do in the future while maintaining a high standard and exceptional customer experience.” Yep maybe BS, but at least it doesn’t put off potential customers...

[06SRTCoupe]

This... the sensitive types wouldn't last 10 minutes over there.

Amen brother.

Do vendors belittle potential or existing customers over there? I’m blown away that a customer had to apologize and be the bigger person here. The vendon should have simply stated “hey, we make a fantastic part and we have a lot of time and work in it, so I’m sorry you find the cost a little high. We’ll see what we can do in the future while maintaining a high standard and exceptional customer experience.” Yep maybe BS, but at least it doesn’t put off potential customers...

So customers should be allowed to just bash a statement by a vendor with a condescending attitude and laugh at them for it...and not expect a response? That and this guy brought up a private matter between said vendor and blasted it all over this forum. Get a clue...the vendor was not in the wrong here.

[SilverACR]

I got a clue and I’m not saying the customer is right in either of the last two threads that died this way, but WTF... I can picture the dealings with a vendor like this on something more important than mudflaps...

[SilverACR]

To try and add value to this thread OP. While you are investigating which stone gaurds to get you can double up painters tape on the wheel well lip when you are tracking, autocrossing, drag racing, or what ever. I have seen both the carbon fiber ones from Parts rack and the ones Dans made. Both look good and protect the sill paint. In my opinion the smaller ones Dan offers look better, but a lot of people like the carbon fiber look, so it comes down to your preference. I have seen viper owners tape their wheel wells just to go on a long highway drive. Not pretty, but it’ll get you by until you get your gaurds. I have clear bra on my sills and that works great for the parts you can easily see, but the lip inside gets the heck beaten out of it and I too am considering gaurds.

[Viper Specialty]

Sorry for the delay... big stuff to do. Big stuff. :P

Do vendors belittle potential or existing customers over there? I’m blown away that a customer had to apologize and be the bigger person here. The vendon should have simply stated “hey, we make a fantastic part and we have a lot of time and work in it, so I’m sorry you find the cost a little high. We’ll see what we can do in the future while maintaining a high standard and exceptional customer experience.” Yep maybe BS, but at least it doesn’t put off potential customers...

Where exactly did I belittle this customer? If anything, the customer belittled me, and then apologized for it. No hard feelings on my end.

Maybe you dont know me, but I think just about anyone who has been around this market for a while knows that I say things like they are... I am not exactly known for hand-holding and nut-rubbing. But you know what? I solve problems and have a knowledge base that very few others do, and I help customers with problems that make other vendors queasy. If you are looking for a "Vendor-Hug", I am not your guy, and that's fine with me. I would rather solve your problem in ten minutes than jerk you off all day for a potential sale. I have other shit to do.

I got a clue and I’m not saying the customer is right in either of the last two threads that died this way, but WTF... I can picture the dealings with a vendor like this on something more important than mudflaps...

You can ask any of my customers who have spent more than ten bucks, and especially any of them who have had me build them something, that my customer service is beyond reproach. I regularly kill myself and go beyond for any of my "actual customers". But like anything, it has a disclaimer... don't expect 4 hours of my time on a Saturday afternoon unless you have bought something a little more than Stone Guards, unless I literally have nothing to do that day. Its a fact of life.


And for the record, the other thread was little more than me voicing my opinion on the topic, and someone taking something that had ZERO to do with them personally. I was put in a position where I know damn well I was not wrong, and was not going to stand down and pretend my opinion holds no weight because someone else chooses to ignore facts. And also for the record, one of the guys defending my position in *this* thread is one of the same guys I was arguing with in the other! Are we all not allowed to have opinions or stand our ground now...? I don't hold this stuff against any of you guys, and I would hope that someone who is completely uninvolved would not be getting their panties twisted over something not even directed towards them.

I would hate for some of you to debate politics with me or my friends... we would need to have a Tampon, Rope & Razor Grab Bag at the door. Sheesh.

[TheMadMachinist]

Dan,
I'm glade to hear there are no hard feelings as none where meant. What I so poorly attempted to do before was to put you on the spot about these R&D costs that you bring up. Yes they do exist and I wasn't trying to infer that that don't. Wouldn't you agree that the item we are discussing is not the most difficult to prototype. I know more often than not things as simple as this thing "looks" can get out of control for a myriad of reasons. Only to leave one thinking why I'm I doing this in the first place. It certainly isn't to get rich, right

You have on occasion made remarks about other products as being inferior to yours. But in many cases you don't mention why those other products are not as good as yours other than to just giving your opinion to that effect. If I'm in the market for a product or a service. I for one have no problem paying more for something that is truly a better value. But I need some facts to prove that one has more value than another. I don't believe this is unreasonable and I'm willing to bet you and most who read this would generally agree with this idea and no I'm not here asking you to waste any of your time trying to sell me a mud flap.

After reading what you wrote below and unless I'm missing something. I'm not seeing more value in your product. It seems more like you just having a little more than your share of the problems that are generally encountered with bringing a product to market. Do you really believe the customer should be the one to bear these costs? Please don't take this personal but maybe mud flaps are not your forte is all. You can't really believe your customers should have to pay for your miscalculations do you? Don't get me wrong if the market will bear it then more power to you and I mean that. I for one want you to be solvent as you and your business provide a needed service to the Viper community. At the same time being it is such a small market there isn't much competition to keep costs grounded.


So, the DAY I spent producing each prototype after multiple attempts of either over-cutting or not being happy, the ~4 versions it took to get the machining correct on each type, dealing with mistakes, accounting for fitment on a product that has a different material flexibility between proto and final, my shipping expenses for the product literally 8x across the state, a complete run of "OOOPS" I had to eat right at the start because of a version number/email oversight, the rear Coupe fascia I had to buy since customers wanted these in dead of winter while no coupes were available in Buffalo, my driving and gas expenses going back and forth all over the earth between different machine shops I deal with...

You also mentioned that you had people order and return your mud flaps after they clearly used them for templets. I would be as frustrated as you if I had that done to me. But just to be clear here are you saying that due to those situations it affected the price of your final product ? I would hope this would not be the case and if it was wouldn't a no refund policy on this item be a far better solution? Again no personal attack here and I'm not telling you how to run your business.

Dan to be honest I like your posts and there's nothing wrong with being confident and perhaps even a little cocky about ones ideas and products. But there needs to be some substance behind such an attitude. Would you not agree. It's this substance that I am questioning is all. Not you as a person and I am in no way questioning your character. But if I may be so bold you can be quite a character at times.

My apologies to the OP for derailing your thread

To 06SRTCoupe please just relax as the adults are trying to have a conversation.

[Viper Specialty]

You have on occasion made remarks about other products as being inferior to yours. But in many cases you don't mention why those other products are not as good as yours other than to just giving your opinion to that effect. If I'm in the market for a product or a service. I for one have no problem paying more for something that is truly a better value. But I need some facts to prove that one has more value than another. I don't believe this is unreasonable and I'm willing to bet you and most who read this would generally agree with this idea and no I'm not here asking you to waste any of your time trying to sell me a mud flap.

Dan to be honest I like your posts and there's nothing wrong with being confident and perhaps even a little cocky about ones ideas and products. But there needs to be some substance behind such an attitude. Would you not agree. It's this substance that I am questioning is all. Not you as a person and I am in no way questioning your character. But if I may be so bold you can be quite a character at times.

I do not see this to be the case at all, and I tend to beat people to death with details and information, except in some situations where specific information is exactly what I aim to NOT post. If you were to find an example, I can enlighten you further as to what the difference is, or why it is not specified. You have to remember, that especially when it comes to categories like tuning and software, it is both the ability to use the software at all, and also how well you know how to use it. My competition regularly ignores or is unaware of certain things in some of the tuning software, and drawing attention to those things specifically is contradictory to my success at being "better" at using it than they are. As long as I keep seeing them making the mistakes, why should I tell them how to fix it?

If by some chance you are referencing general "quality" comments or points, well, all I can say there is compare something we build to something another shop puts together. Look at the details. Everything is cleaned properly to the point of insanity here. Bolts are torqued properly, always, and protected/loctited where applicable. Everything is routed as cleanly as possible. We use the highest grade electrical equipment and practices, hoses, bolts, and gaskets available. We offer detail work and oddball products that nobody else does, because we view it as being the right way and cost be damned to make it right. You won't ever see something "can kicked down the road" come from my hands, and you won't see me sell you a product that causes more problems than it solves like so much of the aftermarket crap out there where you were better off leaving it alone. I have OCD when it comes to building things, and that is not an exaggeration. Anyone who has seen a car I have built can attest to it. And that... is the general difference. Its done right, every time... and at a level that you won't see from 99.999% of shops/builders out there. Hell, I have customers who I have asked to LET ME UPDATE things, and been told "NO!" on more than one occasion because they care far less about the fine details that don't truly matter than I do.

After reading what you wrote below and unless I'm missing something. I'm not seeing more value in your product. It seems more like you just having a little more than your share of the problems that are generally encountered with bringing a product to market. Do you really believe the customer should be the one to bear these costs? Please don't take this personal but maybe mud flaps are not your forte is all. You can't really believe your customers should have to pay for your miscalculations do you? Don't get me wrong if the market will bear it then more power to you and I mean that. I for one want you to be solvent as you and your business provide a needed service to the Viper community. At the same time being it is such a small market there isn't much competition to keep costs grounded.

So, the DAY I spent producing each prototype after multiple attempts of either over-cutting or not being happy, the ~4 versions it took to get the machining correct on each type, dealing with mistakes, accounting for fitment on a product that has a different material flexibility between proto and final, my shipping expenses for the product literally 8x across the state, a complete run of "OOOPS" I had to eat right at the start because of a version number/email oversight, the rear Coupe fascia I had to buy since customers wanted these in dead of winter while no coupes were available in Buffalo, my driving and gas expenses going back and forth all over the earth between different machine shops I deal with...

Again, I disagree, on both counts. How can you not see additional value in a more complicated, larger product that does a better job? Yes, it costs more, but its also a more complete final product. Just because someone else showed up with a cheaper, simpler product more than 6 years later, all of a sudden everything I have done needs to be revised? Nothing has changed for me, and if anything, my costs have gone up and I have left my prices exactly the same as they always have been. I think you are forgetting again that the other guy OWNS all of the equipment, and doesn't even have to absorb the second tier profit margin that I do. If anything, I think the situation has played out rather reasonably given the circumstance.

On the second topic, if I choose to make 4 revisions on something to make it a better product, that absolutely is part of the R&D costs, no different than a machined aluminum part with four revisions. The mistakes, with the exception of the e-mail, were NOT on my end, they were the machine shops getting a final product out of a new material to fit properly and/or not being happy with how it looked when installed due to a fitment alternation/blend that didnt work out. And the mistake on the e-mail was post group-buy, so the price was already set... and I got to eat it. It had no affect on anything other than how long it took me to recover a profit. And even in that case, why would that still not count towards a bottom line and profitability overall, the same as me having to buy a Coupe fascia to produce? Of course it should. I realize you are trying to "twist" this as nicely as possible, but these are all basic ideas behind design, business, and sales. They all come together to either make or lose money. If I am not making anything, why in the hell would I bother?

You also mentioned that you had people order and return your mud flaps after they clearly used them for templets. I would be as frustrated as you if I had that done to me. But just to be clear here are you saying that due to those situations it affected the price of your final product ? I would hope this would not be the case and if it was wouldn't a no refund policy on this item be a far better solution? Again no personal attack here and I'm not telling you how to run your business.

I was in no way suggesting it affected pricing, and it says right on the website that returns are not allowed on the product as a result, and it has said that for months. The price of this product has been the same since it was released post group-buy pricing.


And I also apologize to the OP that this has turned into an off-topic discussion.

[TheMadMachinist]

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

I wasn't twisting anything by the way, only asking just to clarify.

[RyanLS.GEN2]

We had some Gen2 headlight access panels come back 2 years ago with clay in the holes, and stuff smeared all over them and all the nut inserts removed......... ebay return as "not as described" so we ate freight both ways, guy pulled molds off them and returned them damaged basically by cutting the inserts off. Happens more than you think.