Exhaust side sill heat and my debate

[Topplayer]

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...l=1#post334245

Do a search on Scot rickford's posts, the discussion was about low 9L hp versus exhaust system changes.

thank you!

[serpent]

I'm in the same debate mode. Anyone who lives in California and has had to get tested recently knows that the smog check techs are looking out for modifications of any kind. I never had these kinds of problems before, but now, they will go as far as to crawl under the car and look for CARB numbers on anything that doesn't look "right". I got failed recently for a K&N filter that didn't show up in their computer as an approved modification. At another supposedly sympathetic smog station, I got flagged and sent to a referee station because the car "sounded loud" and the tech couldn't visually see the exhaust system without taking the sills off - so instant fail. The CA smog NAZI patrol is in full force these days. I might just keep my second cat, but gut it out and see what happens.

What will they find? the only part tha'ts exposed is the header transitioning into a single pipe. The secondary cats are hidden. They would have to unbolt the panel to see.

[ViperGeorge]

I'm in the same debate mode. Anyone who lives in California and has had to get tested recently knows that the smog check techs are looking out for modifications of any kind. I never had these kinds of problems before, but now, they will go as far as to crawl under the car and look for CARB numbers on anything that doesn't look "right". I got failed recently for a K&N filter that didn't show up in their computer as an approved modification. At another supposedly sympathetic smog station, I got flagged and sent to a referee station because the car "sounded loud" and the tech couldn't visually see the exhaust system without taking the sills off - so instant fail. The CA smog NAZI patrol is in full force these days. I might just keep my second cat, but gut it out and see what happens.

There's an easy answer - MOVE! California is going to the dogs anyway. Homeless everywhere, used needles on the streets and mass transit, taxes through the roof, sanctuary cities, etc. Why would anyone want to live there???

[catwood]

There's an easy answer - MOVE! California is going to the dogs anyway. Homeless everywhere, used needles on the streets and mass transit, taxes through the roof, sanctuary cities, etc. Why would anyone want to live there???

That's really SF. But reasons why

Family
Friends (going back on 40+ years)
jobs
community ties
Kids in school
Weather
lack of bugs
$$$ invested here.
I can drive the Viper 360 days a year if I choose.

[ViperTony]

High flows and belanger catback did it for me. It also stopped the side sill paint from yellowing which I noticed was happening when I removed the side sills.

[catwood]

High flows and belanger catback did it for me. It also stopped the side sill paint from yellowing which I noticed was happening when I removed the side sills.

After I visit the dealer that's probably the route I'll take.

[Martin]

What will they find? the only part tha'ts exposed is the header transitioning into a single pipe. The secondary cats are hidden. They would have to unbolt the panel to see.

Honestly, I haven't had to smog the Gen V yet - but on my Gen IV, they went in there with a mirror and flashlight and poked around all over the place. The Gen IV had vent holes under the cats in the sill, and he looked up there with both a mirror/flashlight and then a borescope. The Gen II was a nightmare - the referee station actually did make me remove the sills to see if the cats were still on the car. I have a Borla exhaust on that one, but never did anything with the cats - and the Borla system has a CARB number. So, they ended up passing me but it was a huge pain in the butt and massively time consuming. I won't even go into the hassle of my Grand Cherokee - I put a Kenne Bell supercharger on that (and it has all the CARB numbers all over it) and that one makes smog tech heads explode. One time I spent three full days trying to get it to pass visual - I kept having to call Kenne Bell, get them to send me documentation on the parts, and then give them to the smog guy.

Nowadays, they have a brand new system where they log into their computer and look up any modifications in their database. If the modification isn't listed in the database for your car, you're screwed plain and simple. All it take is one component anywhere from the air filter to the tailpipe to cause a visual inspection failure. It sucks super bad, and now I'm leery of doing anything that might get me red flagged in their system.

Also, nowadays, the BAR and other California smog control NAZI organizations are doing a ton of spot checks on the smog stations. They drive up in cars that have loud exhausts, etc., and they try to get passed even though they have some component that is a violation. If the smog tech passes them, they get a huge fine. If they pass one of the secret shoppers more than once, they lose their license and they have to close shop. As I mentioned, it sucks super bad right now to have a modified car - at least in my neck of the woods.

[BlueAdder]

Why are you insistent on keeping the catalytic converters? Just curious.

I'd go with headers and high flows over just adding insulation.

Because he's in California and you can't remove the CC. If you do, you ain't street legal no more.

[cubeman]

Honestly, I haven't had to smog the Gen V yet - but on my Gen IV, they went in there with a mirror and flashlight and poked around all over the place. The Gen IV had vent holes under the cats in the sill, and he looked up there with both a mirror/flashlight and then a borescope. The Gen II was a nightmare - the referee station actually did make me remove the sills to see if the cats were still on the car. I have a Borla exhaust on that one, but never did anything with the cats - and the Borla system has a CARB number. So, they ended up passing me but it was a huge pain in the butt and massively time consuming. I won't even go into the hassle of my Grand Cherokee - I put a Kenne Bell supercharger on that (and it has all the CARB numbers all over it) and that one makes smog tech heads explode. One time I spent three full days trying to get it to pass visual - I kept having to call Kenne Bell, get them to send me documentation on the parts, and then give them to the smog guy.

Nowadays, they have a brand new system where they log into their computer and look up any modifications in their database. If the modification isn't listed in the database for your car, you're screwed plain and simple. All it take is one component anywhere from the air filter to the tailpipe to cause a visual inspection failure. It sucks super bad, and now I'm leery of doing anything that might get me red flagged in their system.

Also, nowadays, the BAR and other California smog control NAZI organizations are doing a ton of spot checks on the smog stations. They drive up in cars that have loud exhausts, etc., and they try to get passed even though they have some component that is a violation. If the smog tech passes them, they get a huge fine. If they pass one of the secret shoppers more than once, they lose their license and they have to close shop. As I mentioned, it sucks super bad right now to have a modified car - at least in my neck of the woods.

Naziforina, Makes us in New York look like straight freedom.

[nwa_viper]

I removed my cat pipes and carried them to an exhaust shop. He cut off the secondary cat and replaced it with a straight pipe. Cost me all of $20. Problem solved.

[Martin]

I removed my cat pipes and carried them to an exhaust shop. He cut off the secondary cat and replaced it with a straight pipe. Cost me all of $20. Problem solved.

I'm thinking that the substrate inside the secondary cat might mysteriously come flying out of the cat and just leave an empty can behind....

[sharmut]

I removed my cat pipes and carried them to an exhaust shop. He cut off the secondary cat and replaced it with a straight pipe. Cost me all of $20. Problem solved.

Because some of us reside in California and have to contend with smog certification every 2 years after the initial 6 years. It gets more complicated after a certain number of years the smog must be performed at a STAR certified location.
One option is to remain with stock parts and gut the secondary CAT to pass visual inspection. Although the sill hides the 2nd cat, as martin mentioned earlier a mirror or scope will provide enough visual access to determine if the 2nd cat is present.

[Martin]

Because some of us reside in California and have to contend with smog certification every 2 years after the initial 6 years. It gets more complicated after a certain number of years the smog must be performed at a STAR certified location.
One option is to remain with stock parts and gut the secondary CAT to pass visual inspection. Although the sill hides the 2nd cat, as martin mentioned earlier a mirror or scope will provide enough visual access to determine if the 2nd cat is present.

Exactly - every time I get the "Smog Check Required" note on my registrations, it also says I have to do it at a STAR station. The STAR stations don't screw around... I've heard of some non-STAR stations doing a smog-check with a "service fee" of $300 cash and passing just about anything - but they seem to change ownership quite frequently. I got so fed up with having to deal with the tech at the STAR station that I took one of my cars to "a guy" that was recommended by a buddy of mine. He looked at my renewal slip and said "sorry dude, I can't touch it - this says you need to go to a STAR station."

I asked around, and what I heard is that things like hybrids and cheap eco-box cars almost never get sent to a STAR unless they got tagged as a gross polluter at one point. High performance cars that are on the "list" of ones that are likely to be modified almost always get sent to a STAR station.

Not that I could move away from CA, but sometimes I really want to. There are just too many restrictions on everything that I find fun.

[BlueAdder]

Because some of us reside in California and have to contend with smog certification every 2 years after the initial 6 years. It gets more complicated after a certain number of years the smog must be performed at a STAR certified location.
One option is to remain with stock parts and gut the secondary CAT to pass visual inspection. Although the sill hides the 2nd cat, as martin mentioned earlier a mirror or scope will provide enough visual access to determine if the 2nd cat is present.

That or you need to keep your stock parts and put them back on every two years. That's a pain but, that gives you the opportunity to check that your aftermarket stuff is doing good.
Still sucks donkey balls to deal with SMOG.

[cubeman]

So in Cali you go to a state center with state employees for Smog? Cause I can't believe regular shops can be bothered to check this stuff.

[serpent]

You guys with ACRs if you bought new in cali, don’t need to worry about smog for next what 5 years?

[Martin]

So in Cali you go to a state center with state employees for Smog? Cause I can't believe regular shops can be bothered to check this stuff.

Virtually all the shops are independently owned - and they generally charge people $50 just to hook into the OBDII port and check to see that there are no codes. That's what 90% of the tests are like now, and that's how these guys make their money. Some shops do repairs, so when you fail, they sell you on all kinds of stuff that you may or may not need, and their prices are generally extortionistic. Because the shops are independently owned, that's how the State has them by the balls. The State will send out secret shoppers to the test centes, and see if the shop will pass a car that has some bit of equipment on it that's not approved for California. If they pass a car that's in violation, it's a fine. If they do it again and get caught, they lose their license. Some of these shops cost a lot of money to set up - they have a dyno in the ground (not a real dyno - just the roller to put load on the engine), they have all kinds of computer hardware and software that needs to stay updated, and they need to go through all kinds of certification. Losing a license can bankrupt most of these guys - so they don't want to take a chance anymore. It used to be a nudge nudge, wink wink kind of business - but not anymore. Now, they hear a car drive up with a loud exhaust and they immediately get high blood pressure and start sweating.

[Martin]

You guys with ACRs if you bought new in cali, don’t need to worry about smog for next what 5 years?

I thought it was 4 years, or whenever the car gets transferred to a new owner, whichever comes first. I'd have to look at my paperwork - if it is six years, that would be a lot easier to deal with. But, from there onward, it's every two years no matter what.

[cashcorn]

6 years on new cars after 2010..

[nwa_viper]

Get an extra set of cat pipes to modify. It’s honestly not real hard to swap them out once you get the hang of it.

[catwood]

So, it would appear that this is now a warrenty claim. However, the side sills and insulation appear to come in one piece and are change together but the hinge covers are individual pieces. They are checking to see what else can be done. Fortunatly I am 100% stock on the exhaust or else this wouldn't be covered which seems to be a conumndrum. Stock exhaust causes the issue but ifnow you mitigate it, then it's not covered. Anyway, there are calls going on right now and I'll be informed shortly.

[Martin]

So, it would appear that this is now a warrenty claim. However, the side sills and insulation appear to come in one piece and are change together but the hinge covers are individual pieces. They are checking to see what else can be done. Fortunatly I am 100% stock on the exhaust or else this wouldn't be covered which seems to be a conumndrum. Stock exhaust causes the issue but ifnow you mitigate it, then it's not covered. Anyway, there are calls going on right now and I'll be informed shortly.

Definitely let us know what happens... I'm experiencing some issues with the passenger side sills - my Suntek wrap is already melted and bubbled up, and I'm thinking the nice Stryker Purple paint is going to be the next to go.

I have heard that the passenger side gets hotter for some reason. I think it has to do with the way the PCM manages the fuel trim, but that's way above my pay grade...

[catwood]

Passenger side is the issue on mine also.

[ClayR]

Yeah all these white GD cars are having the same issue. I am just going to order a new piece, paint it and keep the original for myself as an original piece of the car after I either go Heads and Cam or 9.0L. Good thing I kept that one stock for you Cat. Mine is 100% stock but not after this winter.

[BlueAdder]

The paint by the hinges is also turning yellow on my car too. I'll probably wait for a bit and get that replaced via the warranty. I got the 7 year warranty anyway, so may as well use it LOL