Turn Signal Wiring Problem

[ViperJP]

Question: Other than in the multifunction switch at the steering column, how or where else would pushing the brake mess with the turn signals from working properly on ONLY the passenger side.
1996 GTS

I have been working on adding LED bulbs to the taillights, back-up, and turn signals. I have been adding components one step at a time and solving any issue that arises with the flasher unit. My first step worked with the stock flasher unit in the fuse box under the steering column. My next set of components I needed to modify the stock flasher unit to work properly. My next step of components I needed to change to an electronic flasher unit. I had this setup all last summer working 100%. During the winter I decided to go another step forward and add more components and it was working during the mock up. All installed, with the electronic flasher relay and still working in the garage. Than I went for my first drive and I hit the brake as I had my right turn signal on and it shut off. Pushing the brake stopped my turn signal from working, if I let off the brake it would blink again.

The hazards work 100% even with hitting the brake or not.

I put the whole rear tails back to stock and left only the front and the brake messed with the right blinker still. I tried swapping the LEDs out from left side to right side and still the right was affected. I read the wiring diagrams because I wondered if the Third brake light was tied in to the right side, but from what I read it looked to splice in to the left and right side so technically both sides should be affected. The wiring looks to be fairly symmetrical unless I am missing something.

I even went back to my previous setup and it works 100%. I just have no idea why the brake is messing with only the right side. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[dave6666]

Clean your bulb sockets and grounds. And replace your multifunction switch if you suspect it. It's a 22 year old car. That's a $50 part. Should not be a difficult decision.

[AZTVR]

I would first suspect the ground return connections that Dave mentions since you were into those areas and could have affected or loosened a marginal connection. Particularly on a non-steel body car, bad ground returns can cause strange problems.

[ViperJP]

I have some updates but still same exact problem continues.

First I checked and cleaned all sockets. I also put all non-LED bulbs back in and everything worked perfect. I started changing out only 1 bulb to LED at a time. Only when it came to putting an LED in the passenger headlight turn signal did I get the problem. So than I have all non-LED bulbs in the car and only put LED in that 1 spot and still the problem. If I put a non-LED bulb it works fine.
Next step I tried was I unplugged 3rd brake light, taillights, drivers side, and passenger side marker. Only turn signal connected was the passenger headlight turnsignal. Non-LED worked perfect. Put in LED it would stop blinking while pressing the brake.
I even tried using just the turn signal and ground and used an extender so the bulb was out of the socket but connected for testing purposes. I than added a good ground directly to the ground circuit. Still non-LED worked but LED did not upon pressing the brake.
Now that I had tried every scenario setup I could think about I replaced the multifunction switch. Exactly the same thing happened.
Also still the hazards work 100% no matter what. The brake is not affecting the hazards. Based on the owners manual the hazard only ties in to the turn signal wires inside the multifunction switch. So if the hazards are working and the non-LEDs work than the wiring from the multifunction switch to the turns should all be fine I would think.

Any other ideas?

[AZTVR]

Any other ideas?

I couldn't follow all of those configurations and steps; but, it seems to be a load problem on the flasher unit. It sounds like you experimentally changed that as you changed the various load configurations. Have you tried a different manufacturer's flasher unit? Are there different unit ratings depending on number of LEDs? The only other thing is, perhaps your load on the left side is different. Have you tried swapping things like left and right front marker lamps and left and right turn signal indicator lamps? Perhaps same for the rears?

[ViperJP]

AZTVR sorry and thanks! I was attempting multiple configurations, steps, etc. Trying hazards and regular turns in every setup to try and see the exact problem.

Basically I took a stock lighting and started adding LED bulbs to back up lights. Than to taillights. Than rear turns. Than to front side marker. Than to the headlight turns.
Yes I went from stock flasher unit to than a modified stock flasher unit. This modified stock flasher unit worked with LED rear turns and side markers. Than when I changed the turns in the headlight the flasher would not flash. So I used an electronic flasher. I tried the Novita EP27 than the Novita LM470, both still nothing. I purchased a flasher from TheRetroFitSource which has a flash speed adjust. This flasher worked perfect with all LED. This is the flasher I am using now. But this does work and flash properly as long as I am not hitting the brake. The drivers side yes I hit the brake and it still works.

I did suspect the flasher unit but would need to try other brands but not sure where to purchase.

I did swap left and right bulbs, front and rears as well. I even put the taillight LED in the front turn LED. Literally they all work as long as I do not hit the brake. Only a non LED works with the brake on the passenger front. I can do a load resistor but I was trying to stay away from that.

[ViperJP]

I have a new piece of information that maybe you can help explain. AZTVR gave me the idea of load. I used an empty 3157 and ran the LED and the NonLED bulb in parallel to the same turn signal and same ground in the socket in the passenger headlight turn signal. The LED does not shut off when hitting the brake.

So I need more of a load for the brake to not affect the turn signal LED, but my question is what could cause this?

Odd because the drivers side can take the LED and work fine without the nonLED load.

I am trying to stay away from load resistors so I am trying to understand how and why so maybe I can find a better route. OR does anyone have any ideas how to get more load easier?

[dave6666]

You could have a bad set of contacts in the multifunction switch that is affecting just one side. Each side does have individual contacts. One side could be fine and the other not.

[ViperJP]

Dave6666 it could be coincidental that it is doing the same thing with the new multifunction switch I bought. But now that I have two I can open one up and play with it.
I am trying smaller bulbs, 194 than I tried a smaller 74 bulb in parallel with the LED and both seem to be working well. I would think the smaller bulb takes less load? That was my theory. It just seems to need a little load to work.

[AZTVR]

Dave6666 it could be coincidental that it is doing the same thing with the new multifunction switch I bought. But now that I have two I can open one up and play with it.
I am trying smaller bulbs, 194 than I tried a smaller 74 bulb in parallel with the LED and both seem to be working well. I would think the smaller bulb takes less load? That was my theory. It just seems to need a little load to work.

The 194 bulb is rated as 4.6Watt and the 74 is rated 1.4W, so, yes, the 74 draws less current than the 194

[Viper98]

VJP, don’t know if I can add much, if anything, but here goes:

1)😳Holy crikies, man, it sure reads like you know what you are doing. You got 3157 and the Nivita EP27 and the Retrofit thingy plugged into the electronic flasher unit thingy and reversed polarity on the space-time continuum and ..... holy crap, It sounds like Charlie Browns mom “Wa-wa-wa wa-wa wa wa-wa....” LOL. I have no idea what you did, but it sounds like YOU know what you are doing. LOL
Keep up the good work.

Maybe the damn flux capacitor is broken. LOL

Ok, I’m cool now.

2)after all this testing it’ll turn out to be something simple. 🙄

3)I recently replaced my side markers from amber to clear.
I started with the drivers side, leaving the other side stock amber. I tested the drivers side first and thought I had an added benefit; the clear LED marker and the untouched signal, in the headlight, were opposite one another. I thought “cool alternate flashing, I bet they can see my signal now.”
And then I installed the other clear LED marker and it went back to the way it’s supposed to work. Bummer!
I know that when I spoke with John Templeton he said he would have had the clear LED side markers ready sooner, but had some issue(s) with the “floating ground” that needed to be fixed. I remember he was specific about “be careful with the brain end. You don’t want to break it”, so, apparently, he had to add something?
Maybe John Templeton can help. Give him a call. Nice guy! He is one of our sponsors.

Good luck 🍀
Gremlins can be a b***h

[ViperJP]

Thanks guys again for the info. I did speak with John but unfortunately he had a different issue with the Side Markers which I did get with my first type of LED's but not my 2nd type.

I do have a new question as I am trying to see what the minimum threshold / requirement to not have my brake affect the turn signal. AZTVR mentioned the 4.6 watts for the 194 bulb and the 1.4 watts for the 74 bulb. Can these be turned in to resistors that I can potentially test in parallel to see how low I can go without the brake affecting my turn signal?

I know the load resistors they sell are overkill.

I have a bunch of those tan 4 band resistors from some LED projects I have worked on... Can someone with better electronics skills tell me if any of these could be used to mimic 194 or the 74 bulb and how do I determine smaller values to see how low I can go for testing purposes? This may help me determine a way to fix my dilemma.