Does the Gen 6 announcement affect everyone s inflated sense of worth on SE cars

[Policy Limits]

Funny. Where were you when the fifth generation debuted, struggled, had to temporarily close the plant and lay off workers? People like me whom purchased two (or more) brand new Gen V's did our part. But thanks for playing.

[Stealth78]

Funny. Where were you when the fifth generation debuted, struggled, had to temporarily close the plant and lay off workers? People like me whom purchased two (or more) brand new Gen V's did our part. But thanks for playing.

If you need to venture into my own personal finances... I was unfortunately not financially in the position to purchase one, wish I could have. I was doing my best to set my financial future up... bought a new home, recently bought more real estate, and also bought some construction equipment to aid my future plans. I have owned four Viper powered vehicles, two Viper's, two SRT-10 Rams. So please spare me on my dedication to aid in the Viper family.

[Policy Limits]

Congratulations. And btw, if they make a Gen 6, unlike people like you, I'll order one!

[ViperSRT]

Congratulations. And btw, if they make a Gen 6, unlike people like you, I'll order one!

Unless it doesn’t have the “trademark” V10 and manual transmission as you stated above.

Bottom line no matter if one was in the works or not no person can state unequivocally that one will not be built in the future. The future is a very long time.

[ek1]

I think quite a few of the "fake news" outcries are coming from people who bought their Vipers for "investment" and are waiting for them to start appreciating any day now. A very similar thing happened when G4 was announced as the last Viper and there was a feeding frenzy for last G4 cars going well over sticker. The hype eventually died down and went away completely after G5 was announced. The same thing will happen here. Of course the article might be bullshit, but several signs indicate otherwise. With Ford and GM having an good lineup of cars that can hold their own on a road course (Mustang Shelby, Camaro ZL1, Corvette), FCA is left with an aging Challenger, which was never meant to be a road course car / sports car to begin with. I am pretty sure FCA wants to have SOMETHING in the lineup, so there is a chance something will happen. Obviously the V10 won't be making a comeback and it's really sad, but think about all the positives. An aluminum/CF chassis with a new supercharged V8 making 700hp+, a good DCT gearbox, a targa/convertible version out of the gate will all but guarantee that the car will sell. The different engines mentioned in the article also make sense. Make a N/A V8 version with 500+ HP, price it around $80K and then make another with an S/C V8 with 700+ HP and price it at over $100K. Although many people say G5 was overpriced, few of them realize that base prices for a 2016 ACR-E and 2019 ZR1 are very close, as are prices of fully loaded configurations.

I think everyone in the Viper community (except "investors") should be happy that there is even a remote possibility of a Gen 6 being considered. Chrysler was always about making something reasonably priced that absolutely kicks ass of competing cars priced 2x or more. They did it with most generations of Vipers, they did it with 2 generations of Grand Cherokee, then with the Demon. Let's just hope they will do it again. If it does happen, everyone here will simply get a chance to vote with their wallet. I voted with my wallet when I bought my ACR and I will do it again if Dodge comes out with a kick ass car, even if it does not have a V10. After all, if you think about it, the only thing that's better than owning a Viper is owning two Vipers.

Funny part:

Imagine Dodge actually coming out with a V8-based Viper and 4 short years down the road at NVE 5 all the G6 owners being treated as 2nd class citizens because their Viper "is not a real Viper"

[99RT10]

With all due respect "Bro", you have literally become annoying due to the fact that you would personally like to see the Viper be gone forever simply so you can preserve the futuristic value of your own car. There are plenty of us on here, probably the majority, that are truly passionate about the Viper and would rather take the extra $10,000, $20,000 or whatever depreciation might come, in the hopes to see a new revision of the Viper return. While there may not be any concrete evidence or truth behind some of the recent publicity, at least there is a shimmering light for those of us that have had our hearts captured by this amazing car for almost three decades.

Most would call it false hope. Any car they build and plaster a "viper" nameplate on will not match the performance of the Gen 5. Hence the value argument is moot.

[99RT10]

I think quite a few of the "fake news" outcries are coming from people who bought their Vipers for "investment" and are waiting for them to start appreciating any day now. A very similar thing happened when G4 was announced as the last Viper and there was a feeding frenzy for last G4 cars going well over sticker. The hype eventually died down and went away completely after G5 was announced. The same thing will happen here. Of course the article might be bullshit, but several signs indicate otherwise. With Ford and GM having an good lineup of cars that can hold their own on a road course (Mustang Shelby, Camaro ZL1, Corvette), FCA is left with an aging Challenger, which was never meant to be a road course car / sports car to begin with. I am pretty sure FCA wants to have SOMETHING in the lineup, so there is a chance something will happen. Obviously the V10 won't be making a comeback and it's really sad, but think about all the positives. An aluminum/CF chassis with a new supercharged V8 making 700hp+, a good DCT gearbox, a targa/convertible version out of the gate will all but guarantee that the car will sell. The different engines mentioned in the article also make sense. Make a N/A V8 version with 500+ HP, price it around $80K and then make another with an S/C V8 with 700+ HP and price it at over $100K. Although many people say G5 was overpriced, few of them realize that base prices for a 2016 ACR-E and 2019 ZR1 are very close, as are prices of fully loaded configurations.

I think everyone in the Viper community (except "investors") should be happy that there is even a remote possibility of a Gen 6 being considered. Chrysler was always about making something reasonably priced that absolutely kicks ass of competing cars priced 2x or more. They did it with most generations of Vipers, they did it with 2 generations of Grand Cherokee, then with the Demon. Let's just hope they will do it again. If it does happen, everyone here will simply get a chance to vote with their wallet. I voted with my wallet when I bought my ACR and I will do it again if Dodge comes out with a kick ass car, even if it does not have a V10. After all, if you think about it, the only thing that's better than owning a Viper is owning two Vipers.

Funny part:

Imagine Dodge actually coming out with a V8-based Viper and 4 short years down the road at NVE 5 all the G6 owners being treated as 2nd class citizens because their Viper "is not a real Viper"

It's like when the Viper Truck community tried to join in with the "old club" and were told to take a hike. It is not the same. Lipstick on a pig.

[Scott_in_fl]

I think quite a few of the "fake news" outcries are coming from people who bought their Vipers for "investment" and are waiting for them to start appreciating any day now. A very similar thing happened when G4 was announced as the last Viper and there was a feeding frenzy for last G4 cars going well over sticker. The hype eventually died down and went away completely after G5 was announced. The same thing will happen here. Of course the article might be bullshit, but several signs indicate otherwise. With Ford and GM having an good lineup of cars that can hold their own on a road course (Mustang Shelby, Camaro ZL1, Corvette), FCA is left with an aging Challenger, which was never meant to be a road course car / sports car to begin with. I am pretty sure FCA wants to have SOMETHING in the lineup, so there is a chance something will happen. Obviously the V10 won't be making a comeback and it's really sad, but think about all the positives. An aluminum/CF chassis with a new supercharged V8 making 700hp+, a good DCT gearbox, a targa/convertible version out of the gate will all but guarantee that the car will sell. The different engines mentioned in the article also make sense. Make a N/A V8 version with 500+ HP, price it around $80K and then make another with an S/C V8 with 700+ HP and price it at over $100K.

And you've just described the Corvette, which is the only business model that could have a chance. But then you're looking at the mass production of 20k vehicles per year. They'll be at every light. That's not the Viper I grew up dreaming about.

[Voice of Reason]

Then Gen V was built because the Viper still had something to say. As great as the Gen IV was on track it still lacked in modern appointments. But now that the V has come and gone what’s left to say? Any derivative now will either be a mass produced Corvette clone shell of its former self or a $400k limited production hyper car than none of us can afford. I’m not interested in either and I think FCA understands that.

[Bruce H.]

There's no reason it can't continue to evolve just as it did through the last 4 new generations. The Gen VI could have lots to say, embracing smart aero, better weight distribution, superior engine performance, top shelf active suspension that finally offers high performance and comfort, safety technology, front end lift system and a convertible configuration that many Viper owners have always preferred. Even consider AWD. I'm sure others could add to this list.

Some owners view and accept the Viper in a rather rigid way but the car dies when it doesn't change and keep up with changing customer needs and expectations. There will never be a shortage of classic and dated Vipers for sale to appeal to some, but the more progressive Viper owner will need the Viper to keep moving forward in order to want to purchase one.

Bruce

[swexlin]

Bruce, agree with everything you just said.

[ViperSmith]

Funny. Where were you when the fifth generation debuted, struggled, had to temporarily close the plant and lay off workers? People like me whom purchased two (or more) brand new Gen V's did our part. But thanks for playing.

I can play this game. I have bought two.

I hope they build a Gen 6. With a smaller, yet powerful engine and DCT.

[theviper]

I remember when I posted in 2010 that for safety, Viper should have ESC/DTC/etc. I stated that it can be turned off and its electronics, so adds no weight. It should be there to save people on the rare occasion the car slips out of control on regular roads (or on a track). Some people on the forums flipped out and said that no Viper would ever have that and a Viper is not a Viper if it has ANY safety controls, including ABS (idiots). Gen V has ESC/DTC/etc and you can turn it off. Most here would agree Gen V is the best Viper yet. Most here would agree safety is important.

Point it, if Gen 6 happens, we all will miss the V10, but the car has to evolve to survive. I'm sure it will still have a manual, but it will probably have an automatic (DCT/whatever) and other traditionally non-Viper qualities. And you know what??? It will probably be the best Viper to date if/when it comes out.

[Arizona Vipers]

Every major car magazine that I got in the mail this month said there will be a 2021 Viper, like Car and Driver- https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gend-is-reborn

[TrackAire]

If those that feel a "real" Viper has to have a V10.....would you accept a small displacement V12? There is no way that a large displacement engine that is naturally aspirated is going to pass cold start up emissions regulations. Our current V10 is an extremely clean burning engine....it qualifies as a low emissions engine. But, the problem is cold startup and the huge amount of emissions it puts out until the cats fire off. The bigger the displacement, the worse the cold start up emissions. (you'll never see a 9 liter anything from a manufacturer). The future for most cars that are going to have high horsepower motors will be forceg induction with smaller displacement. You can thank our stupid politicians for listening to the Eco-Nazi's instead of science and statistics.

Ferrari already has a V12 that puts out approximately 790 hp (although I don't know how long this motor will be emissions compliant with the more strict future standards). Their baby 3.9 liter twin turbo in the 488 puts out 660 hp (if google specifications are correct). The future of any automobile will be sharing of parts between brand names owned by the same parent company. There are a lot of Audi parts in the Lambo. Ferrari already supplies its 4.7 liter V8 to Maserati. So there is potential to get an emissions compliant motor from our red headed cousin, especially for a low production vehicle.

I do think there is something on the horizon to replace the Viper.....maybe it won't be called a Viper but something is coming. I did not think so and thought the media stories were bogus until I heard Ralph speak at NVE 3.........from his tone and body language I have a sense that a replacement is on the drawing boards. It will probably be smaller displacement (guessing under 6 liters, high revving and force induction...hopefully turbo's) and only available with a dual clutch transmission to appeal to the majority of potential global buyers and keep costs low by only offering one drive train option.

But what do I know.....I've been in the sun all day

[Scott_in_fl]

FCA owns the Viper nameplate. So, technically, they could slap it onto a re-bodied Alfa 4C tomorrow and call it a day.

And, knowing FCA, that's likely what they'll do. I could see them bastardize the nameplate to squeeze a few more bucks out of it -- let us not forget that this is a struggling car company that nobody was interested in purchasing just last year. If you're expecting another bespoke chassis and power package, handbuilt in small numbers, then you're dreaming. They were supposed to update the Charger this year and now its timetable has been pushed forward another 4 years.

Everyone loves Vipers for different reasons it seems. For me, and as much as I love the idea of more performance, and as much as I might be able to warm up to a turbo V8, I'm never going to be interested in a mass produced Viper.

And frankly, I can't imagine any scenario that does not involve a desire to produce and sell many, many more units than they did the last time around. For that, I'll go back and get another Z06 (I loved mine but hated that everyone else owned one).

The truth of the matter is that, like it or not, GM knows this game better than anyone else and is the 6,000 pound Gorilla in this space. Their extremely refined product offerings in Grand Sport, Z06 and ZR1 are the proof as is the legions of faithful buyers and the vast aftermarket that supports those products. If you've ever owned one of the current gen Corvettes, you know they are very well engineered and terrific cars for the price you pay for one.

Moreover, with the headstart that GM has in the development of their vehicles, I think FCA would have a very difficult time matching the value of the Corvette. If you're expecting an $80k Viper to compete with an $80k Corvette, it ain't happening. GM can out-market, out-race (on the world racing scene), and out-sell anything that FCA has ever built.

And if they ever try to get into a pricing war where GM needs to drop prices, GM can play that game all day long and will choke out FCA in no time. I just don't see how FCA can pick that fight again, try to take on the strongest kid on the block, and expect any different result than the last time around.

Sorry to say it, but FCA was lucky to sell a couple thousand cars a year basically because GM let it happen. Those numbers were never a threat to putting a dent in Corvette sales. Had that not been the case, GM would have snuffed out the Viper long ago (either by reducing pricing or increasing performance -- either option to the point that Viper could not match -- in fact, that's kind of what happened over the course of 25 yrs).

Good luck to those waiting on a Gen VI worth buying.

[640bhpV10]

I wonder if this engine has something to do with the 2021 estimate for the Gen VI: https://5thgenrams.com/exclusive-7-0...fferent-names/

.....if the Gen VI is real.

I understand the consternation over the reports of a Viper without a V10. The Viper really hasn't changed much compared to other cars over a 25 year run. The platform and engine have made steady, iterative improvements - but no major shifts through all that time. Thats pretty special for a modern car.

It was 10 years between my last drive in a Gen 2 and my first drive in a Gen 5, but the Gen 5 immediately brought back memories from that Gen 2. The lineage was immediately obvious and simply awesome. I had wanted a Gen 2 ever since my best friend bought his in 2000 and owning a Gen 5 was truly the opportunity to buy that car (much more optimized, lighter, much more powerful, but the fundamentals remain). I am eternally thankful to Ralph and his team for building the car that I always wanted! I love my 2015 SRT and have no plans to sell it.

However, I understand that FCA would want to change directions a bit, the realities of modern regulations leave little choice. We have ~20,000 V10 Vipers and they are all awesome machines. FCA building a different Viper doesn't detract from these existing cars and I'm quite sure that FCA has taken the current V10 as far it can go. Plus, there really aren't bespoke engines for cars these days, its just to expensive and difficult.

The future of cars often looks a bit bleak to me: I'm a huge fan of manual transmissions, naturally aspirated engines, and a direct driving experience. These cars are rapidly disappearing and the loss of the Viper was a big hit to the few remaining cars of this archetype. I never imagined a time when I wouldn't want 80% of the sports cars in the mags - they just aren't building what I like anymore. Everything these days adds endless layers onto the driver-car interface and changes my inputs to "make me better".

But a new Viper with a powerful V8 and a manual transmission could be a really compelling car and maybe it will retain some of the directness of the prior Gen's. No doubt it will be amazing to look at and a 7.0L naturally aspirated V8 could be bad-ass (like a more powerful LS7).

I'm quite confident that I won't want to sell my Gen V to have one, but maybe it will be good enough to add to the stable. FCA already built my favorite car, not crazy to think they might build my second favorite too?

-Nick

[ek1]

And you've just described the Corvette, which is the only business model that could have a chance. But then you're looking at the mass production of 20k vehicles per year. They'll be at every light. That's not the Viper I grew up dreaming about.

I haven't just described the Corvette, same principle applies to pretty much every other sports car business model out there, starting with the 911 which starts at $91K and goes to over $300K, the Jaguar F-type, which starts at $60K and goes up to $140K, MB AMG GT, which starts at $112K and goes to about $180K, Audi R8 that starts at $138K and goes to beyond $200K. The G5 Viper started at just over $84K (even then people bitched it was too expensive), so all FCA has to do is price the G6 around $80K and you will never see one at every light. There is even a small chance that FCA will use Alfa's Giorgio's platform, which can be made pretty light. If Alfa managed to make a family sedan that can do 0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds, imagine what they can do with a modern, aluminum, superchanged V8.

When I was listening to Ralph's speech at NVE3, he sounded like he has a real passion for the Viper. Let's hope he can convince the other decision makers that Viper needs to exist beyond G5.

[ek1]

Every major car magazine that I got in the mail this month said there will be a 2021 Viper, like Car and Driver- https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gend-is-reborn

Unfortunately they all basically reposted the rumor that Car and Driver floated.

[TheStig]

If it's not a V10 it's not a Viper.
The closest thing you'll see to a Gen 6 Viper is the new TVR Griffith.

[Bruce H.]

If it's not a V10 it's not a Viper.
The closest thing you'll see to a Gen 6 Viper is the new TVR Griffith.

Five years from now we could be saying if it's not a V10 it's not your dad's old Viper.

Heck, I suspect many G5 first time Viper owners didn't even care that much that it was a V10, and would have been just as happy if it had the 707 hp Hellcat V8 in it!

[jkviper]

I would love to see a new Viper come out of FCA. I really don’t think it hurts the resale value of existing Vipers at all. They will be unique in there own way and appeal to a specific type of buyer as it always has.

If anything it will probably help resale values longer term. If the brand stays around it attracts more buyers for both the new ones and the used ones.

[Sub Driver]

If it's not a V10 it's not a Viper.
The closest thing you'll see to a Gen 6 Viper is the new TVR Griffith.

These statements are a bit ridiculous. An engine's cylinder count does not make a car brand. F150s now have TT v6s, the Ford GT also has a TT v6, mustangs have 4 cylinders, the z06 is supercharged instead of n/a, ferraris have TT v8 instead of n/a, etc etc. The viper must evolve if you want it to stay alive. Personally, I dont care what engine it comes with as long as it has dominating performance.

[ViperSmith]

These statements are a bit ridiculous. An engine's cylinder count does not make a car brand. F150s now have TT v6s, the Ford GT also has a TT v6, mustangs have 4 cylinders, the z06 is supercharged instead of n/a, ferraris have TT v8 instead of n/a, etc etc. The viper must evolve if you want it to stay alive. Personally, I dont care what engine it comes with as long as it has dominating performance.

Ding ding ding

[Scott_in_fl]

Personally, I dont care what engine it comes with as long as it has dominating performance.

.... and reasonable exclusivity. Seeing a Viper has always been a special event.

Once you add automatic transmissions and make it "Corvette-like" so that it appeals to the masses, and start volume producing it as the next Hellcat product to sit on lots next to Chargers and Challengers, then I think it loses that feeling of being "special".

It certainly could be done, but again, I think I'd go back to GM for that. My FCA products (current Jeep GC) are not built like my GM products (previous Tahoe, '16 Z06, current Escalade).