Does the Gen 6 announcement affect everyone s inflated sense of worth on SE cars

[Policy Limits]

Bring it back in volume with a 4 cylinder! !!!

[Stealth78]

I understand that emissions play a huge roll in future engine options but if there was any way that they could create a special catalytic converter, maybe a third specifically designed to aid with cold start, it would be amazing to see the car retain it big displacement V10. I know it is not likely to happen but I can't imagine one person on this forum would be disappointed. SC's, turbos, DCT and mid-engine designs are spoken of often. There has already been a lot of R&D into the 9.0L. I for one (I realize I am a rarity in this aspect) don't want to see the Viper go mid-engine. If you were to take the GenV, put a 9.0 making 750-800HP, offer an optional DCT (we need to be able to retain the stick), get rid of the overkill aero that melts tires and start looking towards active aero, the Viper in its current form would be incredible! Combined those with any improvements to the chassis and you would have one heck of a car.

[ForTehNguyen]

G6 will be less special if it uses the 6.2 V8 used elsewhere

[SRT_BluByU]

Another possibility is an all new forced induction, alum, hemi based v10. Just as the current v10 is a chrysler LA v8 derivitive. Maybe it goes back to 8 liters.. so what. Add in huge hp numbers, paddle shifter option, huge contact patch, low slung sexyness and im in.. and ive bought 2 gen v’s. Im very much looking forward to a gen vi viper!

The chyrsler design team is and have always been in the top of the automotive design world. A scrappy bunch that takes risks, leads with passion and most often achives excellent results! Theyre true car guys and i believe feed off the passionate feedback from the mopar faithful!

Givem a shot before you piss all over the idea

[Vegaskid]

If it has anything to do with that piece of crap Alfa like the forums below....then no thanks,

The goss over at Allpar forums presents a slightly different picture, first and foremost that the new vehicle won't be called "Viper;" one poster refers to it as the "Not-A-Viper." The Dodge, according Allpar posters, will be a platform twin with both the Maserati Gran Turismo replacement — likely the Alfieri — and a new Alfa Romeo 6C/8C sports car. The Dodge-Alfa connection is like stepping back in time: when Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne previewed the fifth-generation Viper in 2010, dealers said the Viper looked like an Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione with a Viper face.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/27/...re-production/

[7TH_SIGN]

I'm one to never buy in to the manufactures BS "its the last year we are making them, hurry up and buy now!" Though that can be true sometimes I never believed the GEN V would be the last Viper. I hope they do continue producing them, only thing I ask is three things... They keep the timeless body lines of the Viper, keep it a V10, and let it remain a three peddle only manual transmission.

I think the GEN VI has the potential to be the best Viper yet as the GEN V showed us it is the best yet. I think the V10 8.4L engine is way overdue for an update, though some may disagree and like the old push rode system. I was one who didn't like seeing Dodge glorify the Hell Cat and Demon over the flag ship Viper.

I do understand why some GEN V owners are upset at the news. Maybe some bought a GEN V because they believed it was going to be the last Viper... Collectability or hoping to cash in on a flip. The Supra community has had their eyes on the GEN V since its announcement. Time will tell.

[ViperSmith]

You will never see a V-10 in a "Viper" again. If anything it will share an engine like the Hellcat's.

I think the disaster that was Gen V engine proved that a small run of engines that is bespoke doesn't scale well for QA's sake.

[Bruce H.]

FCA would realize that a next Gen Viper wouldn't be financially feasible by relying on 25 years of previous Gen owners running out and purchasing one. Keeping the old V10/6spd manual formula in a significantly improved package failed with existing owners and cross shoppers alike, even with those that bought multiple examples of them. The writing was on the wall for the Gen V by Sept 2014, just one year in, when SRT Motorsports was folded, Ralph replace by Tim, and the price slashed $15k because of poor sales. It's been on life support ever since, and could have been done in '15 without stimulated sales from the 1 of 1 program, '16 ACR and its records, and hype over final year 17's. Not enough love for the V10 or stick without those. Been there, done that.

Track rats bought a lot of the Gen V's, some upgrading 3 and 4 times within the span of 5 years. During that time automotive technology moved forward and most of the best track cars are offered with an auto/DCT, and that auto is a big part of what makes those trackable cars best and fastest. It's one of the main advantages that makes less powerful cars faster on track. I may love the stick, and think the V10 is cool, but they're surely both gone next time around when I choose the next trackable car to replace the TA, if I replace the TA. I doubt many of the track guys that bought the record setting ACR will be seduced by anything other than the fastest and most capable car at the time, otherwise they'll just stick with their current car...as would most other owners who want to stick with the traditional Viper formula.

So FCA just can't count on us enough to help pull off a next Gen using the same formula. They're going to need significant improvements in technology, safety and performance to attract enough buyers. If the V10 and a stick is your thing then hang on to it because the world of high performance is moving on fast. And if GM thinks the Corvette name can survive switching to a rear mid-engine layout then maybe Viper can survive a few changes also. The internet thought the Vette was done when they dropped the round rear tail lights for the C7 but somehow it survived, and I think the Viper can too.

I think many aspects of the car could and should change to attract buyers. If they offer compelling features and performance, wrap it in gorgeous exotic bodywork and price it high enough then there won't be any fear of it becoming so popular that it won't remain a very exclusive car.

[ViperGeorge]

You will never see a V-10 in a "Viper" again. If anything it will share an engine like the Hellcat's.

I think the disaster that was Gen V engine proved that a small run of engines that is bespoke doesn't scale well for QA's sake.

If the next Viper does have a Hemi I would think this would bode well for aftermarket parts. Much bigger market for Hemi performance parts that for a Viper's V10. It would also likely reduce the cost of producing a Viper, think how many off the shelf parts would be available to SRT. Yes, I'd miss the V10 but a Viper with a Hemi producing 750 or more HP would be fun.

[ViperJon]

They keep the timeless body lines of the Viper, keep it a V10, and let it remain a three peddle only manual transmission.

Couldn't agree less. The retro look is dead (proven by Gen V sales), nobody wants a monstrous V-10 anymore and only a manual would be suicide in this day and age. Why on earth would they clone a Gen V with its dismal sales?

[theviper]

FCA would realize that a next Gen Viper wouldn't be financially feasible by relying on 25 years of previous Gen owners running out and purchasing one. Keeping the old V10/6spd manual formula in a significantly improved package failed with existing owners and cross shoppers alike, even with those that bought multiple examples of them. The writing was on the wall for the Gen V by Sept 2014, just one year in, when SRT Motorsports was folded, Ralph replace by Tim, and the price slashed $15k because of poor sales. It's been on life support ever since, and could have been done in '15 without stimulated sales from the 1 of 1 program, '16 ACR and its records, and hype over final year 17's. Not enough love for the V10 or stick without those. Been there, done that.

Track rats bought a lot of the Gen V's, some upgrading 3 and 4 times within the span of 5 years. During that time automotive technology moved forward and most of the best track cars are offered with an auto/DCT, and that auto is a big part of what makes those trackable cars best and fastest. It's one of the main advantages that makes less powerful cars faster on track. I may love the stick, and think the V10 is cool, but they're surely both gone next time around when I choose the next trackable car to replace the TA, if I replace the TA. I doubt many of the track guys that bought the record setting ACR will be seduced by anything other than the fastest and most capable car at the time, otherwise they'll just stick with their current car...as would most other owners who want to stick with the traditional Viper formula.

So FCA just can't count on us enough to help pull off a next Gen using the same formula. They're going to need significant improvements in technology, safety and performance to attract enough buyers. If the V10 and a stick is your thing then hang on to it because the world of high performance is moving on fast. And if GM thinks the Corvette name can survive switching to a rear mid-engine layout then maybe Viper can survive a few changes also. The internet thought the Vette was done when they dropped the round rear tail lights for the C7 but somehow it survived, and I think the Viper can to.

I think many aspects of the car could and should change to attract buyers. If they offer compelling features and performance, wrap it in gorgeous exotic bodywork and price it high enough then there won't be any fear of it becoming so popular that it won't remain a very exclusive car.

Great post. They have to attract a larger crowd. I've noticed that even the diehard "have to have a NA engine with a stick shift" crowd is dwindling. Heck, some of them own Teslas now (blasphemy)! As we all know, if it wasn't for the whole "Viper is dying" emotion, they would struggle to sell 300/year with the current formula. So keep your Gen 5's (there will never be anything like it) and celebrate a Gen 6, if it happens.

[Martin]

Maybe it'll be a re-release like the Dodge Charger was in the 80's. That was one awesome tribute to the original - not.

[640bhpV10]

Why on earth would they clone a Gen V with its dismal sales?

Well the GenV produced a total of ~4000 cars over 5 model years (average of 800 units per year). That sales figure is much better than the GenIV (almost double) and comparable to the sale of GenII coupes throughout its run. The GenV certainly had a glut of available units at one point, but overall sales were similar to how the Viper has performed historically.

The Viper had a few big years, like the GenIII had a few big sale years, as did the GenI. It's interesting that all the best selling Gen's were convertible only, yet coupes usually outsold convertibles when both were offered togther - seems weird to me.

That said, it is clear that the GenV didn't manage to attract new buyers and the Viper formula struggles to produce sales volumes under a thousand units per year.

But this makes sense since the GenV feels more like a "Singer-like" rendition of the GenII than a new formula. It improved fit and finish, optimized the mechanics, and added some basic electronics (many legally mandated). But the overall formula was unchanged and it proved that fit and finish alone were not holding back buyers - its the whole Viper idea.

The competition is fierce these days with so many options for sports car buyers. Some may take this to mean that the Viper needs to stay unique, but there is a reason that the basic formula for so many cars seems the same - because it works!

Turns out people like the sound of V8s and want their cars to be fast and easy. For those who want the timeless Viper shape, V10, and a manual - buy the GenV! That is as good as that formula will get and FCA took the powerful, analog sports car as far as it can go with their available resources (and succeeded from a performance standpoint).

So FCA should change directions a bit and pick components that will appeal more broadly. I hope they keep an optional manual and direct driving experience as part of the Viper, but the new car needs to be different to sell well. I hope they can pull it off and keep the Viper name alive, even if the new car is a significant departure from prior cars.

-Nick

[vipernm]

Winner!

Ain't gonna happen. Who would they sell the car to? Who is the target buyer?

Probably to well off millennial's who don't want or can't deal with a manual tranny

[Policy Limits]

Nah millenials are feelin' the Bern cuz they're up to their eye ballz in student loan debt. The consumer market for the Viper is a niche one. The young crowd digs lambos & mclarens.

[TrackAire]

If it has anything to do with that piece of crap Alfa like the forums below....then no thanks,

The goss over at Allpar forums presents a slightly different picture, first and foremost that the new vehicle won't be called "Viper;" one poster refers to it as the "Not-A-Viper." The Dodge, according Allpar posters, will be a platform twin with both the Maserati Gran Turismo replacement — likely the Alfieri — and a new Alfa Romeo 6C/8C sports car. The Dodge-Alfa connection is like stepping back in time: when Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne previewed the fifth-generation Viper in 2010, dealers said the Viper looked like an Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione with a Viper face.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/27/...re-production/

If anything was to come of a new car to replace the Viper, this sounds the most feasible IMO.

[donk_316]

Factory Five Racing is coming out with a new coupe that looks very very close to the car and driver article. Maybe the writer got his lines crossed?

[Scott_in_fl]

I'm starting to wonder if we can believe anything FCA says.

It rubs me a bit raw if they already have entirely different plans literally within months of closing the plant; after all the "last call", "really last call" language from Kuniskis; all the SE's intended to be the final, final editions; and the general mandate that FCA fed dealers about rushing to purchase the last Vipers (which FCA knew the dealers would use to sell cars -- one of them ordering and selling 140 units); the closing party at the plant which people believed was to commemorate the end of an era; etc., etc., etc. And I'm not blaming the dealers. I think they legitimately believed the 2017 cars were final cars, and many called their best buyers and sold them 2, 3 or more cars because of it.

If all of that turns out to be nonsense, then FCA may have a real problem on their hands. If you need to pull that kind of crap to sell cars, then that's just plain wrong -- well, actually, it's called fraud.

[SRT_BluByU]

no problem really if you think about it... they did the exact same thing at the end of the gen iv. CAAP party, final editions, special customers and all....

and when the gen v came out... oh well. Im hoping for a gen vi ... just another excuse to add a car to the collection!

[Scott_in_fl]

no problem really if you think about it... they did the exact same thing at the end of the gen iv. CAAP party, final editions, special customers and all....

and when the gen v came out... oh well. Im hoping for a gen vi ... just another excuse to add a car to the collection!

I don't have an issue with a Gen VI. I don't think it will happen, for all of the reasons I've mentioned.

But, if they wanted to keep it going, then great.

Just be upfront and honest about it. Don't take advantage of people by lying to them.

[Terminator02]

It CAN happen but the timing on this would be odd imo. It just ceased production and plant did close. I think viper was troubled each gen by poor marketing and furthering the perception of not existing. The gen IV ending was pretty substantial and most lay car lovers thought it was dead. Gen V is more substantial with more news reports and announcements with the plant closure "last viper" etc...that is HARD to come back from.

So yes it can come back but serious marketing and engineering needs to go with it. No more behind the books Batman creations can occur. These new engines, options and regulations make for a he'll of a sizeable investment.

Then there is the issue of what Halo car does this really help? Vette program is long established and the base is damn good enough. Those Z06/ZR1 make sense. Same with the stangs. Stang V8 is good and also long established. V6 keeps the bodystyle is cheap and most popular. Most popular due to the history of the Stang and continued rivals to make the V8 GT and above cars relevant. Viper hasn't really ever marketed or budgeted well so those are real obstacles. Makes more sense to finally an ounce and build up a new in between model then possibly bring out the new viper if that is successful and the real budget is there. I am team Viper but a tuned V10 and super creative people on a budget just cannot compete with the changes here and upcoming.

Regarding people defending viper ending and the responses of their motive for value retention I don't understand. The new cars coming out well before the viper will kill it's performance. Any new viper isn't going to be from the last gen of manuals, less tech and more driver oriented so i could actually see all previous gens rising in value so it can go either way.

Bottom line is marketing and kiss poor budgeting wrecked the gen V and all that creativity didn't get properly noticed. Hand painted, hand assembled, V10, widest tires, etc...man that really puts the value so much higher than it ended up being. The 15k cut didn't help much IMO either. It's devaluing the brand to push cars. I hope for a new viper but I'd let the horse stay murked for a few years before credible leaks hit!

[Bruce H.]

It's been a long time since the end of the Gen V was announced and the first customer orders placed...what, maybe two years? That FCA is exploring a global brand effort that may or may not be possible, approved or built, and may or may not be called a Viper should not be too surprised. Designing and developing new cars never stops. Viper did end, they did wrap it up with a bow and a celebration, and maybe the name might return in another few years. That's good news for enthusiasts everywhere and "most" Viper owners that should benefit in various ways.

Those that only bought one because production was ending did in fact see production end...winning!

[bassplayrr]

I bought my Viper as it was the end of an era; a close but more modern link to the car I wanted as a kid in the early 90’s. I’ve never felt the Viper was the best car available, nor the best value. I felt it was, however, the last chance to own a brand new, analog, large CU, NA motor mated to manual transmission. A new, more modern model won’t change this. Now that I have my Gen V, which I intend to keep forever, I’ll likely move on to a McLaren or Porsche or another M car for my modern “fix”. The idea of a more modern Gen VI excites me, however, as it puts the potential of a 2nd Viper back into the mix, potentially. Win, win.

[Terminator02]

It's been a long time since the end of the Gen V was announced and the first customer orders placed...what, maybe two years? That FCA is exploring a global brand effort that may or may not be possible, approved or built, and may or may not be called a Viper should not be too surprised. Designing and developing new cars never stops. Viper did end, they did wrap it up with a bow and a celebration, and maybe the name might return in another few years. That's good news for enthusiasts everywhere and "most" Viper owners that should benefit in various ways.

Those that only bought one because production was ending did in fact see production end...winning!

It's a wait and see. Enthusiasts may have only disdain for the new one if or when it occurs. It may being in a whole new demographic. As of now, it's gone to me. Unless they HAVE a giant budget, can compete with engineers dealing with the programs FCA needs to catch up on, and a targeted specific market strat...not happening for a long time and not impacting enthusiasts who the car was made for and appreciated all along imo.

[SlateEd]

Just sayin'

Even though there is truly no such thing as 'fake news' this is hilarious.