I can t figure it out where to start on these gaps Please help

[JimJoeBob]

Alright everyone, I need help. The adjustments on this thing make me feel stupid, I've read Dave6666's extensive guide and viewed GTS Deans process on how to adjust all this nonsense. However I still can't exactly figure out where to start. I also want to make sure I have all the shims required prior to starting so I can begin "fixing" the issue as soon as I start ripping panels off instead of taking apart the front end and not have the items required to do anything. I'll show you my dilemma.

Viper right headlight.jpg Right Headlight

Viper left headlight.jpg Left Headlight

From there you can see the iconic "gap" between the hood and fascia on the outside of the vehicle. I'm aware that the core supports lower horns need to be shimmed to adjust that part however, do I need to remove shims or add shims? As seen from the headlights, they're both very low and look as if they're to far away from the center, so my thoughts are to adjust them inwards to the center of the vehicle and also up slightly. However if I do that I feel as if I'd need to rotate the enter assembly to get it inline. I don't remember it being mentioned much in the guides I read to rotate the entire deal to match the curvature of the fascia.

Viper Side Sill.jpg Side Sill

I feel as if my side sill gappage is to high, yet the hood is level and inline with the doors. The gaps are identical on both sides so I assume I'd adjust the whole hood down via the latches on the front and adjust my rubber stops accordingly so I don't ruin my hood, I know this would affect the aforementioned gap on the sides by the door and by the headlights but I will compensate for it. However the biggest issue with adjusting the entire hood is this right here,

Viper center hood.jpg Center

The center portion is fairly decent and inline! So, my whole front end is a bit of a soup sandwich and I know will need a lot of work to get looking acceptable. I'm not going for perfect but I'd like to at least get it presentable in some shape or fashion. Does anyone with good knowledge of adjusting this craziness understand or have a general idea of what I should do to get this mess halfway decent.

[Red Snake]

Probably won't find a lot of online help with this. Dave may be the only one in history of the Viper who has successfully figured this out. A lot of people, and I mean a LOT of people have tried and failed, including many of the best known shops.

Likewise, I am no help on this whatsoever.

Good Luck.

[99RT10]

Probably won't find a lot of online help with this. Dave may be the only one in history of the Viper who has successfully figured this out. A lot of people, and I mean a LOT of people have tried and failed, including many of the best known shops.

Likewise, I am no help on this whatsoever.

Good Luck.

Sitefag6 is busy painting his hood vents white. So, this is something I lifted off another thread:

30713727_2088668411150579_6930964647415644160_n.jpg

[JimJoeBob]

99RT10, thanks, this is apart of GTS Deans write up, the only issue with his is that if I adjust the entire core support up will it also mess with the centerline between the headlights? Damn these cars for being so complicated.

[Dan Cragin]

Looks like the core support needs to come up. I have been able to get most cars 90%. it does take some time though.

[JimJoeBob]

Looks like the core support needs to come up. I have been able to get most cars 90%. it does take some time though.

Thank you and 90% is all I need because old girl is about 20%. Judging from the prior guide, it would be to add shims in the pictures locations to adjust the entire support upwards yes? I may have read the guides but this type of thing just isn't sticking, I don't learn unless I do it typically.

[My98RT10]

Be prepared to get your Dremel out. When lifting the core support it may be that some of the other mounting points on the side will not line up anymore and then you will have to "adjust' some with the Dremel. In my case, the gaps on the side were different although the hood was good. I finally grew a pair and tackled this exercise. When measuring the height of the fascia above ground I realised that it sat 1 inch higher on one side although the frame rails where level! Later in the process I found out that the core support was shimmed too much on one side leading finally to unequal gaps on the sides between fascia and hood. The reason for being unequally shimmed was most likely to line up other mounting points. I assume that at CAAP they had only limited time for installing the fascia and that did not allow for more extensive adjustments to get it 99%. I think the tolerances of all parts and mounting points lead to this. Some are better, some are worse.

Best of luck ;-)

[Fatboy 18]

I'm in the early stages of rebuilding the front end.

IMG-20180423-WA0001.jpg




Headlight Shims, keep account of where they are placed and how many, tape them together and mark them up.
20180331_194649.jpg


The trouble is you have to remove the front nose to make the adjustments then you have no reference to how much you have moved anything until you replace the nose again.

One Awesome idea From Dave 6666 is, after removing those 'use once' christmas tree push fit plastic fasteners drill out the holes in the reinforcement bumper and fit Nutserts (rivnuts). That way you can simply remove and replace the nose easy without destroying the fasteners everytime!

[GTS Dean]

Viper Side Sill.jpg Side Sill

I feel as if my side sill gappage is to high, yet the hood is level and inline with the doors. The gaps are identical on both sides so I assume I'd adjust the whole hood down via the latches on the front and adjust my rubber stops accordingly so I don't ruin my hood, I know this would affect the aforementioned gap on the sides by the door and by the headlights but I will compensate for it. However the biggest issue with adjusting the entire hood is this right here,

Viper center hood.jpg Center

The center portion is fairly decent and inline! So, my whole front end is a bit of a soup sandwich and I know will need a lot of work to get looking acceptable. I'm not going for perfect but I'd like to at least get it presentable in some shape or fashion. Does anyone with good knowledge of adjusting this craziness understand or have a general idea of what I should do to get this mess halfway decent.

Your side sill gap looks too large to me, and not parallel. The gap should be even at about 1/2". If it gets larger toward the front, then you need to lower the hood bumpers and drop the latches down. This will not substantially affect the rear corners by the side mirrors, but if it does, just drop them a tad. It will reduce the amount of core support and headlight shims you need as well. The only reason the middle fits well is because the previous attempt probably used all the vertical travel at the bumper support adapter plates to make it that way.

Just remember, the whole process begins with proper door fit, then the hood, followed by core support, bumper support, and finally - the headlights.

[JimJoeBob]

Your side sill gap looks too large to me, and not parallel. The gap should be even at about 1/2". If it gets larger toward the front, then you need to lower the hood bumpers and drop the latches down. This will not substantially affect the rear corners by the side mirrors, but if it does, just drop them a tad. It will reduce the amount of core support and headlight shims you need as well. The only reason the middle fits well is because the previous attempt probably used all the vertical travel at the bumper support adapter plates to make it that way.

Just remember, the whole process begins with proper door fit, then the hood, followed by core support, bumper support, and finally - the headlights.

Thanks Dean. I'm gonna drop the hood down a bit then travel down in the bumper support plates and start my job from there. Do you, or anyone happen to know where shims are available?

[LifeIsGood]

Do you, or anyone happen to know where shims are available?

Shim-Radiator - Mopar (4709366AB)

[JimJoeBob]

Shim-Radiator - Mopar (4709366AB)

You're my best friend.

[GTS Dean]

Any decent plastic supply house will have sheets of it in stock. They can cut strips or rectangles for you, and you can use a hole saw or paddle bit to drill the holes. Dave did just that. *IF* I have some time over the weekend, I'll get you some measurements.

[SnakeWatching]

Here is an older thread that takes the front fascia off, you can see what it looks like:

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...Removal-GEN-II

Now remember, the above post takes front off, does not show how to fix gaps.

In one of the pictures you can see the angled slot that tilts the front support (experts, correct me if I am wrong!).

[Lost me beer]

Does not look like an easy process. Good on you for attempting this.
Hell, I cant even get my '67 Stang's doors to line up very well!
Good luck.
Troy

[daveg]

Was the car hit in the front? Only reason I ask is because if it was damaged, you could be trying to align something that may be bent in some fashion and my be difficult to get it right because of that.

[JimJoeBob]

Was the car hit in the front? Only reason I ask is because if it was damaged, you could be trying to align something that may be bent in some fashion and my be difficult to get it right because of that.

As far as I know, no collisions have ever occurred. But we know how honest previous owners are, carfax was clear so if it has been damaged it was never reported.

[daveg]

Hmm interesting... Wondering how those gaps got so far off and they are quite a bit...
May want to take that bumper off and start your alignment with the hood, then lights and then bumper...

PS, Looking at the front of the hood, it looks like it has to come down a fair amount.. I have to admit, I am scratching my head a bit looking at it...
Would love to see that in person., may make more sense to me...

[ViperTim]

Was the car hit in the front? Only reason I ask is because if it was damaged, you could be trying to align something that may be bent in some fashion and my be difficult to get it right because of that.

That is the situation I'm facing.
My car has had an minor accident on the front left corner so my core support was repaired, poorly. The brace to the top left corner was missing etc.
So I re-fiberglassed the core support, bought new top corner supports etc. But never got it to align well.
But now I realise when reading this thread, my hood sits too high.
Which is why I had to put an unspeakable amount of shims under the core support. I did it all wrong.
I assumed the hood was correct and tried closing all the gaps according to the hood, but now I realise that also the hood was wrong. Everything is wrong.
So when I have time (which is far away from now...) I will need to readjust all of it.

[Welfare racing]

drilling and shimming will get it back (mine looks like yours and had alight poke in the front), mines going to a guy who has retired from chrysler,(I gave up on it myself LOL) he was one of the end of line fitters at the viper plant his name is Scott not far from Marysville mi

[JimJoeBob]

Viper Tim, I pulled my bumper off and found my rebar severely cracked on one side. Looks like I'm an accident repairman now. Got pissed so now I put it back together and left it.

[daveg]

Viper Tim, I pulled my bumper off and found my rebar severely cracked on one side. Looks like I'm an accident repairman now. Got pissed so now I put it back together and left it.

Bummer, either Car Fax missed it or money was exchanged between accident victims so the Car would show no history...

[ViperTim]

Viper Tim, I pulled my bumper off and found my rebar severely cracked on one side. Looks like I'm an accident repairman now. Got pissed so now I put it back together and left it.

Welcome to the club.
Don't be mad, don't be sad. Just face the facts.
And now when you've been allowed to breathe a little, Just get yourself some fiberglass, polyester, a good 3m mask and get to work. You will be proud when you're done!
But also don't assume that the hood is correct like I did! Do it once, do it right.
Don't do it twice. Like me.

[JimJoeBob]

Welcome to the club.
Don't be mad, don't be sad. Just face the facts.
And now when you've been allowed to breathe a little, Just get yourself some fiberglass, polyester, a good 3m mask and get to work. You will be proud when you're done!
But also don't assume that the hood is correct like I did! Do it once, do it right.
Don't do it twice. Like me.

That's what I'm trying to do is tell myself, oh well I still have a Viper and I know my hood needs to come down. If I can push the centerline of the fascia down I could lower my hood and get everything damn close.

[ViperTim]

That's what I'm trying to do is tell myself, oh well I still have a Viper and I know my hood needs to come down. If I can push the centerline of the fascia down I could lower my hood and get everything damn close.

Hey I just bought a BMW because for the first I time wanted to be reasonable and have a reasonable car.
Today I've been tearing down the transmission because the torque converter is toast.
Meanwhile I've just rebuilt the entire front end of our other reasonable car just to hear from the tech inspection it won't pass due to emissions.
Meanwhile my supercharged Tbird needs love.
Meanwhile my Viper needs all new fluids.
Meanwhile my girlfriend's wants to have a baby.
Meanwhile I want to get an Austin A40 to restore.

Cars and I are no good match.
Somehow I still keep them around....