DSCSport V3 Controller now compatible with factory OEM shocks

[DSCSport]

I have a 2014 GTS, and if I understand what you are saying, this upgrade will do the same thing as the full tractive suspension? If that is the case then why wasn't anyone here told that before they spent $7000 on the full suspension?


DSC changes the damper management from Semi-Active to Active. Semi-Active meaning the driver has to push the button for a change occur. Active meaning the changes are made by the controller to the changing driving situation/load.
So yes, by adding the DSC Sport controller it does change your car's suspension from Semi-Active to Active. But it is not possible for the OEM dampers to outperform Tractive dampers. By adding the DSC Sport controller to command the OEM damper it is a worthy intermediate level upgrade.

[DSCSport]

Are magnetic shocks inferior to the tractive ones ? Any idea what technology they are as I thought the best was magnetic, as far as active shocks go.



In some ways they are, but some ways they are not. MR shocks' reaction time is very fast but they only respond well to low-velocity changes. Whereas Tractive dampers respond equally well to low, medium, and high-velocity events. MR shocks requires a lot of electrical current to keep the magnetic particles aligned making the dampers themselves and the electronics run quit hot in a half track session; often on MR dampers the best laps are set in the first five. Magnetic particles become abrasive to the internal seals over time. Tractive dampers uses conventional motorsport racing shim stacks and two spool valves per damper to create damping force curves that tires really respond well to and Tractive shocks run a lot less electrical current to better manage heat build up to maintain peak performance and long-term durability. Both the MR technology and Tractive's patented DDA technology are engineering marvels. However, both technologies were designed for very different purpose and application; one is for OEM mass-production street/sports car level performance at OEM cost per unit criteria, while the other is for top shelf motorsport/racing level performance. There is a reason why drivers have been switching out MR dampers once they get to certain pace on track and want to improve further.

[Anton28]

DSC, what discount are you able to provide forum members for the full Tractive set up?

[darbgnik]

In this context of setting A and setting B for this type of OEM damper, with A being the softer of the two settings, DSC Sport controller does the following:

1) Driving over a speed bump starts in setting A, at the peak of the speed bump the g-force changes direction, DSC commands setting B to eliminate or greatly reduce the oscillations after the peak of the bump.

2) Aggressive braking starts in setting A, allowing the the tire to set, as brake line pressure and g-force increase DSC commands setting B to slow down the weight transfer to increase braking grip, thus increasing the threshold before ABS engagement.

3) Launching the car from standstill DSC uses the same 'two-stage ' damping improve grip.

While active "two-stage" damping is not as good as active infinitely variable damping throughout the stroke but it is a big step up from passive.

We feel that the DSC Sport controller is a great mod. Short of a full DSC/Tractive system, there isn't any other suspension mod that offers active weight transfer management to enhance.

This one should be a no brainer for the straight line guys. I immediately noticed no more wheel hop once installing the tractive setup, if that can be accomplished with the factory dampers, it would be money well spent.

[Anton28]

This one should be a no brainer for the straight line guys. I immediately noticed no more wheel hop once installing the tractive setup, if that can be accomplished with the factory dampers, it would be money well spent.

How did the overall ride quality change with the tractive set up during normal driving conditions?

[Scot@Prefix]

How did the overall ride quality change with the tractive set up during normal driving conditions?

The customer car that i drove for the whole NVE3 event, rode beautifully in street mode. It was hard to believe you were in a Viper actually.
We have done several cars with the complete system, I have driven most of them and the system works great.
Some of the best money you could spend on the car.

[cubeman]

Anyone in the Lower NY Area can drive my viper to test out on the Tractive suspension system. I've been meaning to send my shocks out for the upgrade on the rear but trying to get all my nitrous components together so i can just drop it off at the shop for one go.

[darbgnik]

How did the overall ride quality change with the tractive set up during normal driving conditions?

The street ride quality was the easiest to quantify. Especially absent was the clop of the tires over cracks in the road, like freeway expansion lines. It is night and day. Compared to the SRT suspension anyway. I do have a friend that noticed the same on his GTS as well though.

[sadil]

I have one more question. Is each damper controlled independently when deciding to switch from A to B?

Simply switching from Street/Race over and over doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

Does the full tractive switch control the 4 corners independently?

[Anton28]

The customer car that i drove for the whole NVE3 event, rode beautifully in street mode. It was hard to believe you were in a Viper actually.
We have done several cars with the complete system, I have driven most of them and the system works great.
Some of the best money you could spend on the car.

Thanks for the feedback Scot!

- - - Updated - - -

The street ride quality was the easiest to quantify. Especially absent was the clop of the tires over cracks in the road, like freeway expansion lines. It is night and day. Compared to the SRT suspension anyway. I do have a friend that noticed the same on his GTS as well though.

Im ready to pull the triger.

[Dr.Ron]

Where in NY are you?

[AZTVR]

I have one more question. Is each damper controlled independently when deciding to switch from A to B?

Simply switching from Street/Race over and over doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

Does the full tractive switch control the 4 corners independently?

Watch the video in post 97 where they talk about setting the right front and left front differently in a corner, and other examples such as front and rear differently in a launch mode or in braking.

[DSCSport]

DSC, what discount are you able to provide forum members for the full Tractive set up?

If the group is interested in starting a introductory buy we can offer 10% off on the DSCsport controller.
Unfortunately we are unable to discount the full tractive shocks due to the fixed market price for the shocks.

[Dr.Ron]

I might be interested if someone tried this out and saw decent improvements on their Gen V Viper both on the street and on the track.

[ViperGeorge]

SRT uses a 2 mode shock on the SRT Grand Cherokee and they control them like DSC does for the Viper so the new controller should work as advertised.

[Bruce H.]

I'm really looking forward to know these answers as I would like to order this unit for my TA 2.0
I'll do a track day at Tremblant on May 11 and again on May 23, so I could see the difference the new Controller makes.
On May 23, Bruce H will be there with me, so we could also try the Controller on his TA, as he has extensive knowledge about how the stock controller react on track.
I could also review the Street setting as the track is a 2 hour drive from the rough streets of Montreal.

Hi Claude,

Trembant's esses are one of the two cornering scenarios where I find the stock TA dampers particularly lacking in Race mode. The excessive damping through this quick transition makes the car skittish and also limits tire grip under acceleration on corner exit. You simply can't get on the gas as early and as forcefully as you should when exiting and it's pretty obvious when following other fast cars through there as you watch them open up a gap in front of you. The good news is you catch them soon after

These esses are 100% why I started tracking in Street mode where it does offer improvement, and at the other cornering sequence where the excessive Race mode damping is also an obvious issue...Mosport's T5B/C combo. I now track in Street mode exclusively, which just seemed kind of wrong to me, but now that we've learned that Race mode is automatically engaged under more demanding conditions it may explain why I feel the benefits of the more compliant Street mode in these slower speed twisty parts and notice no change in performance in the higher speed sections...not sure what the speed/steering angle threshold for Race mode engagement is.

So I know Tremblant would be an excellent track to test a damper controller upgrade for track use, as would the short and rough road through town to the gas station to test street improvements, and if you do try the controller I will be first in line behind you to evaluate it.

As a general comment, anybody can notice and comment on street ride improvements in an A-B swap controllers in and out comparison but for useful track feedback it needs to be driven and tested at and beyond the limits of the factory damper and controller, R-compound tires at track temp, good track surface, and by a driver who knows the handling of the test car intimately and is sensitive to small changes in handling. It's also helpful to do a test where you know that the stock system is lacking, just as you might repeatedly test street manners on a specific section of rough road.

If you have an opportunity to try the DSC controller I'm completely up to the task of also evaluating them with dozens of track days on my TA and the esses will be the acid test, along with the fairly high speed kink and dip just before Namarrow corner that makes the rear step sideways.

I have to be honest that I find it rather hard to believe that the DSC controller's toggling between the factory damper's Street and Race modes would provide much benefit on a road course over the factory's auto toggling in Street mode that I now use. I would love to find I'm wrong about that and that there is such a cost-effective solution that would offer the minor improvement that I desire.

I'll also mention that I rode as passenger in Mike`s DSC's Tractive equipped TA around NOLA at NVE2 and was absolutely blown away. Mike drove flat out and hit curbs and turtles repeatedly to demonstrate the incredible compliance and control of the DSC/Tractive combo. That didn`t upset the car at all, and cornering and braking grip and control was staggering, and on par with the ACR-E that was driven by an SRT Experience pro-driver. So I know DSC can make the Tractive damper the real deal on our cars, but there are few Viper track rats that
I know that could properly test the controller on the factory dampers and provide credible feedback. Hopefully one of them will purchase one and tell us all about it!

Bruce

[Dr.Ron]

Maybe if there is a money back guarantee??

[One Viper Bite]

So how much is this thing?

$1290. So with a 10% discount, $1161.

[bassplayrr]

I think I’m in, if so. Was there ever any response as to the functionality, or lack thereof, of the mode selection switches with the DSC setup? Are there two maps, mapped to this selection, or do those mode selection buttons become obsolete?

[Scot@Prefix]

There is a lot comments and doubt about this new controller.
The controller itself has been out for several years, and used with the complete DSC system. It is not new, what is new is that's it able to be used the factory shocks!
We have one of the first complete systems installed on our Targa mule car, several years and 10,000 miles later no issues!
Keep in mind this car is driven year round in Michigan! Sun, rain, snow, salt exposed to it all.

As far as someone doing a back to back test on a racetrack, this is already been done!
The owner of DSC is a professional race car driver, an engineer and tests/develops his products along with his team.
How many people on this forum can say they have won 24 hours of Daytona? The championship in GT3 Cup Challenge? along with a list of wins at various tracks around the country??
Almost every weekend Mike is at the racetrack tuning suspensions or racing!
The guy is the real deal, and yes a Viper owner!!!

[Bruce H.]

The controller itself has been out for several years, and used with the complete DSC system. It is not new, what is new is that's it able to be used the factory shocks!

What's new is DSC's decision to use their controller on an application they've rejected until now, noting that the OEM dampers are overly damped in Race mode.

We have one of the first complete systems installed on our Targa mule car, several years and 10,000 miles later no issues!
Keep in mind this car is driven year round in Michigan! Sun, rain, snow, salt exposed to it all.

The controller isn't at issue, it's the pairing with OEM dampers which you have no experience with.

As far as someone doing a back to back test on a racetrack, this is already been done!
The owner of DSC is a professional race car driver, an engineer and tests/develops his products along with his team.
How many people on this forum can say they have won 24 hours of Daytona? The championship in GT3 Cup Challenge? along with a list of wins at various tracks around the country??
Almost every weekend Mike is at the racetrack tuning suspensions or racing!
The guy is the real deal, and yes a Viper owner!!!

Prospective buyers are hoping for an unbiased review. I interpret Mike's own review as tepid and cautious to not set expectations very high compared to the Tractive combo which he praises in the strongest terms. Good on Mike for under-promising as the buyers and expectations of the controller only will likely be different from those of the full and uncompromising Tractive combo that they can further custom tune to meet their specific needs.

This isn't a criticism of Mike, his ability as a driver or programmer, or the controller itself but a desire by prospective buyers for clarification of the real world improvements that owners can expect on street, track and strip. It's buyers doing their due diligence.

[Dr.Ron]

What's new is DSC's decision to use their controller on an application they've rejected until now, noting that the OEM dampers are overly damped in Race mode.



The controller isn't at issue, it's the pairing with OEM dampers which you have no experience with.



Prospective buyers are hoping for an unbiased review. I interpret Mike's own review as tepid and cautious to not set expectations very high compared to the Tractive combo which he praises in the strongest terms. Good on Mike for under-promising as the buyers and expectations of the controller only will likely be different from those of the full and uncompromising Tractive combo that they can further custom tune to meet their specific needs.

This isn't a criticism of Mike, his ability as a driver or programmer, or the controller itself but a desire by prospective buyers for clarification of the real world improvements that owners can expect on street, track and strip. It's buyers doing their due diligence.

My sentiments exactly! I'd like to know what the realized gains are. I'm also aware that this pales in comparison to the full Tracticve set up, but does the stock system pale in comparison to this, or is the controller with the stock system only marginally better?

The slow influx of info here is frustrating as well. I know selling it here isn't his only job, but it's been a slooow process.

Ron

[cubeman]

Where in NY are you?

westchester

[FLATOUT]

Bruce is on point here (as usual)

The Viper community is very aware of the upside and tunability of the tractive setup. When we originally launched it with ViperExchange/TPC we got a ton of questions, and a lot of sceptisism which we addressed frquently here on the forums and in person with Myself, Ben Keating, and Mike Levitas.

In fact Scot the set of dampers on the Prefix mule car were installed here when we sold that car to Prefix, so glad to see they are still perfoming so well and you guys are happy.

As for the new controller.

I have one that Mike sent me prior to NVE3 to test but honestly got too busy out there to put one in a car. I will try and get one in a customer car here and give everyone some feedback, but I just don't see how the factory dampers are going to be able to change much with just the controller to make it worth it.

What's new is DSC's decision to use their controller on an application they've rejected until now, noting that the OEM dampers are overly damped in Race mode.



The controller isn't at issue, it's the pairing with OEM dampers which you have no experience with.



Prospective buyers are hoping for an unbiased review. I interpret Mike's own review as tepid and cautious to not set expectations very high compared to the Tractive combo which he praises in the strongest terms. Good on Mike for under-promising as the buyers and expectations of the controller only will likely be different from those of the full and uncompromising Tractive combo that they can further custom tune to meet their specific needs.

This isn't a criticism of Mike, his ability as a driver or programmer, or the controller itself but a desire by prospective buyers for clarification of the real world improvements that owners can expect on street, track and strip. It's buyers doing their due diligence.

[Scot@Prefix]

Bruce is on point here (as usual)

The Viper community is very aware of the upside and tunability of the tractive setup. When we originally launched it with ViperExchange/TPC we got a ton of questions, and a lot of sceptisism which we addressed frquently here on the forums and in person with Myself, Ben Keating, and Mike Levitas.

In fact Scot the set of dampers on the Prefix mule car were installed here when we sold that car to Prefix, so glad to see they are still perfoming so well and you guys are happy.

As for the new controller.

I have one that Mike sent me prior to NVE3 to test but honestly got too busy out there to put one in a car. I will try and get one in a customer car here and give everyone some feedback, but I just don't see how the factory dampers are going to be able to change much with just the controller to make it worth it.

Yes i remember when they were installed, along with your big brake kit. We have had both the valving and programming updated since then and made it much better than the initial way it came.

As for the new controller.
It may not be a big change, but knowing Mike and his team it will be an improvement. And as Mike wrote earlier its not as advanced or as good as the complete tractive setup, but its a nice improvement over stock.
Will it turn your stock suspension into a full on top of the line race system, nope!