DSCSport V3 Controller now compatible with factory OEM shocks

[8400cc]

The Tractive shocks are also not magnetoreological(sic) either...... they have a specific valve that allows more adjustments per second than the mag ride GM uses, to call it mag ride is an under sell.......

More than one way to skin a cat so they say, more ways than magnetic particles in the fluid as well.

Are you suggesting magnetic shocks are inferior to the tractive ones ? Any idea what technology they are as I thought the best was magnetic, as far as active shocks go.

[darbgnik]

Are you suggesting magnetic shocks are inferior to the tractive ones ? Any idea what technology they are as I thought the best was magnetic, as far as active shocks go.

Well, seeing as Camaro ditched the mag ride for spool valve shocks, that group of engineers didn't think magnetic was the best you can get, weight savings being one benefit, but I digress....

I'm not trying to seem like a know it all, nor an expert, but I'm just trying to point out that there are more ways to create an active shock than magnetic fluid. I was also pointing out that the Tractive shock is capable of more adjustments per second than mag ride. Calling all active shocks mag ride is the equivalent to calling all snowmobiles Skidoo's. All Skidoo's are snowmobiles, but not all snowmobiles are Skidoo's.

[8400cc]

Well, seeing as Camaro ditched the mag ride for spool valve shocks, that group of engineers didn't think magnetic was the best you can get, weight savings being one benefit, but I digress....

I'm not trying to seem like a know it all, nor an expert, but I'm just trying to point out that there are more ways to create an active shock than magnetic fluid. I was also pointing out that the Tractive shock is capable of more adjustments per second than mag ride. Calling all active shocks mag ride is the equivalent to calling all snowmobiles Skidoo's. All Skidoo's are snowmobiles, but not all snowmobiles are Skidoo's.

I guess I would need to see some data to suggest the tractives are capable of more adjustments per second, hence my question. I wasn't suggesting all active suspensions are magnetic I was asking what technology the Tractives have since they are active and are apparently quicker to respond than the magnetic counterpart, which to my knowledge was quickest. Hopefully that clarifies.

[Coloviper]

The amount of fluid and viscosity of the fluid in the shock will adjust the response of the shock. You do not have to have mag fluid to adjust the response of a stock shock, just control the amount of fluid in the shock at any instance. Mag shocks and mag fluid is but a better way to do it as it provides even more adjustability and even quicker adjustability because of the magnetic aspect changes the viscosity at moments notice. This set up appears to provide much more adjustability to the amount of fluid in the shock at any one time and given situations, hence you have an active shock within the mechanical parameters of the physical shock and the fluid in it. (it provides real time analog responsive like control to that little reservoir valve to give the factory shock as much active as it possible can within the physical shock constraints)

DSC tractive replaces the shocks, valving and electronic brains.

If I understand this correctly it is like this:

1. Factory Two-Mode Shocks and Factory Programming - Two modes, slight active ability around those two modes but gaps of non-active between those settings as not programmed in or considered. [Basically a mechanical pneumatic response]
2. Factory Two-Mode Shocks and new DSC Controller - Two modes (because there is still a physical switch to select between two modes (whatever you want those modes to be because they are programmable, don't have to be street and race)) and there is now more active ability to fill in those non programmed gaps, maybe better response times as well, etc. so it is the best performance and programmability you can get out of the factory shock set up. [basically an Analog response because you are hampered by the stock shock limitations.]
3. Tractive/DSC - since the shock, valving and controller is changed, you are no longer hampered by the stock shock limitations, nor the modes, nor the responsiveness, etc. you can take the car that much further where the stock shock has physical limitations. [Basically a full digital response and a completely different experience.]

I think that's how this works correct.

My only question is why is every new Viper mod, rolled out in darkness with the most poor explanations, zero marketing nor a complete explanation of why it exists, what it does, how it achieves it. I mean really, not even a detailed PDF brochure that takes 2 hours to make. Realize that everyone is excited to get a new product out but you only get one chance to make a first impression and not doing so just removes potential customer confidence. Then again this could all be Snake Oil but probably not. There is a need for a product like this for those that do not want nor need a full suspension change but want a much better and controlled ride out of their factory car.

[8400cc]

The amount of fluid and viscosity of the fluid in the shock will adjust the response of the shock. You do not have to have mag fluid to adjust the response of a stock shock, just control the amount of fluid in the shock at any instance. Mag shocks and mag fluid is but a better way to do it as it provides even more adjustability and even quicker adjustability because of the magnetic aspect changes the viscosity at moments notice. This set up appears to provide much more adjustability to the amount of fluid in the shock at any one time and given situations, hence you have an active shock within the mechanical parameters of the physical shock and the fluid in it. (it provides real time analog responsive like control to that little reservoir valve to give the factory shock as much active as it possible can within the physical shock constraints)

DSC tractive replaces the shocks, valving and electronic brains.

If I understand this correctly it is like this:

1. Factory Two-Mode Shocks and Factory Programming - Two modes, slight active ability around those two modes but gaps of non-active between those settings as not programmed in or considered. [Basically a mechanical pneumatic response]
2. Factory Two-Mode Shocks and new DSC Controller - Two modes (because there is still a physical switch to select between two modes (whatever you want those modes to be because they are programmable, don't have to be street and race)) and there is now more active ability to fill in those non programmed gaps, maybe better response times as well, etc. so it is the best performance and programmability you can get out of the factory shock set up. [basically an Analog response because you are hampered by the stock shock limitations.]
3. Tractive/DSC - since the shock, valving and controller is changed, you are no longer hampered by the stock shock limitations, nor the modes, nor the responsiveness, etc. you can take the car that much further where the stock shock has physical limitations. [Basically a full digital response and a completely different experience.]

I think that's how this works correct.

My only question is why is every new Viper mod, rolled out in darkness with the most poor explanations, zero marketing nor a complete explanation of why it exists, what it does, how it achieves it. I mean really, not even a detailed PDF brochure that takes 2 hours to make. Realize that everyone is excited to get a new product out but you only get one chance to make a first impression and not doing so just removes potential customer confidence. Then again this could all be Snake Oil but probably not. There is a need for a product like this for those that do not want nor need a full suspension change but want a much better and controlled ride out of their factory car.

I appreciate the insight and it certainly provides some clarity that really should have been there out of the gate, as you mentioned. The days of old are gone with the internet providing many avenues to create educated buyers. This whole thread almost feels like a waste of time now as it doesnt feel to me like much is gained from this product. Also the misinformation and lack of specific accurate info early on was frustrating. This manufacturer has a good reputation and I have read of positive experiences from many people who have purchased other products. That being said it might be a good time for someone to chime who represents this product to explain why we should buy it. Peace out

[Scot@Prefix]

Here is the information on the DSC website
http://www.dscsport.com/2018/04/19/n...rt-controller/
It appears to tell exactly what it does.


DSCSport V3 ControllerScreen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.47.29 AM
Available for all viper models fitted with PASM, the V3 Controller is a simple Plug N Play controller that replaces the factory PASM controller, offering both improved track performance and street comfort. Like all DSC Sport controllers, it allows users to tune by g-force, brake pressure, acceleration, speed, steering, and control the effective damping range via shock calibration. Additionally, the V3 Controller introduces a velocity table and magnetic motor mount tuning control.

The V3 Controller also introduces the ability to tune by velocity, made possible by the factory four wheel ride height sensors now equipped viper models. Velocity tuning allows adjustment based on the velocity of the piston rod movement, more accurately tuning the chassis to road surface changes. This feature provides a new dimension of tuning that maximizes both performance and comfort.

[sharmut]

Here is the information on the DSC website
http://www.dscsport.com/2018/04/19/n...rt-controller/
It appears to tell exactly what it does.


DSCSport V3 ControllerScreen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.47.29 AM
Available for all viper models fitted with PASM, the V3 Controller is a simple Plug N Play controller that replaces the factory PASM controller, offering both improved track performance and street comfort. Like all DSC Sport controllers, it allows users to tune by g-force, brake pressure, acceleration, speed, steering, and control the effective damping range via shock calibration. Additionally, the V3 Controller introduces a velocity table and magnetic motor mount tuning control.

The V3 Controller also introduces the ability to tune by velocity, made possible by the factory four wheel ride height sensors now equipped viper models. Velocity tuning allows adjustment based on the velocity of the piston rod movement, more accurately tuning the chassis to road surface changes. This feature provides a new dimension of tuning that maximizes both performance and comfort.

Hi Scott,

Not trying to be confrontational, but the information on that page leaves more questions than answers. The first sentence in the first paragraph mentions the Viper platform and describes features of the controller's capabilities, that the vehicle platform does not offer. What is "magnetic motor mount tuning control" as it pertains to the Viper platform?
Statements like "The V3 Controller also introduces the ability to tune by velocity, made possible by the factory four wheel ride height sensors now equipped viper models. " leaves one to question the validity for any of the information. Gen-V have ride height sensors from the factory?

[Scot@Prefix]

Since we have access to the FCA dealer system, this attachment is directly from FCA on how the active dampning system works, and what information it uses to determine the valving position.
It is not a magna ride, I was wrong, hopefully this will clear up some confusion
FCA Viper shock operation.pdf

Enjoy!

[sharmut]

Since we have access to the FCA dealer system, this attachment is directly from FCA on how the active dampning system works, and what information it uses to determine the valving position.
It is not a magna ride, I was wrong, hopefully this will clear up some confusion
FCA Viper shock operation.pdf

Enjoy!

Thank you Scott.

It starting to make sense to me, basically it's as we speculated earlier, the DSC v3 controller is toggling the 2 valve positions(street & race) in the damper.

Street Mode
The system starts in Street Mode and the driver can select Race Mode. The system stores the last mode on key on. When
in Street Mode the ADCM temporarily auto-switches to Firm Mode and back to Street Mode with no temporary cluster
indication for these conditions:
• High engine rpm
• High engine torque
• High accelerator pedal application
• ABS stopping
• High vehicle decelerations
• High vehicle speed

Does DSC provide lap time comparison for the Gen-V between OE and DSCv3 controller only?

[One Viper Bite]

Since we have access to the FCA dealer system, this attachment is directly from FCA on how the active dampning system works, and what information it uses to determine the valving position.
It is not a magna ride, I was wrong, hopefully this will clear up some confusion
FCA Viper shock operation.pdf

Enjoy!

THIS is the kind of information I was looking for when I started this thread.

Particularly this line here: "The Active Damping Control Module (ADCM) controls the suspension and ride of this vehicle by adjusting the rebound
and jounce of the shock assemblies using the above information and predetermined settings for maximum vehicle control."

So it sounds like, while our dampers are not magnetoreological, they do seem to have some active capabilities. Perhaps nowhere near as fast, precise, or effective as a true magnetic damper or the Tractiv dampers, but more capable than what the factory ADCM can command them to do.

Anyone else understanding the same thing?

It's also pretty cool to see that in Street Mode, the system is reacting to a number of inputs and variables with mappings / tuning from the Race setting. I personally find that the Viper is much more controllable and confidence inspiring at high speeds in Street mode vs. Race mode as I find Race mode makes the car too twitchy during high speed cornering.

[txA&M08]

It's also pretty cool to see that in Street Mode, the system is reacting to a number of inputs and variables with mappings / tuning from the Race setting. I personally find that the Viper is much more controllable and confidence inspiring at high speeds in Street mode vs. Race mode as I find Race mode makes the car too twitchy during high speed cornering.

The way I'm reading it, street mode seamlessly turns into race mode as soon as you get aggressive. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to set the car in race mode if all you're doing is making the ride harsher at low speeds.

[8400cc]

Hi Scott,

Not trying to be confrontational, but the information on that page leaves more questions than answers. The first sentence in the first paragraph mentions the Viper platform and describes features of the controller's capabilities, that the vehicle platform does not offer. What is "magnetic motor mount tuning control" as it pertains to the Viper platform?
Statements like "The V3 Controller also introduces the ability to tune by velocity, made possible by the factory four wheel ride height sensors now equipped viper models. " leaves one to question the validity for any of the information. Gen-V have ride height sensors from the factory?

I agree with this. The bottom line and more importantly the smoking gun that will sell this item or not is the lap times on stock shocks with the controller and without. I hope someone posts these, what would be really bad ass is the same track, same car with the stock setup, then the controller with stock setup, then the full tractive setup. The deltas between these is really what we are all after. Also thanks to Scot for chiming in. Pretty clear now on everything, although a confirmation on the ride height sensor would be nice.

[SilveRT8]

I agree with this. The bottom line and more importantly the smoking gun that will sell this item or not is the lap times on stock shocks with the controller and without. I hope someone posts these, what would be really bad ass is the same track, same car with the stock setup, then the controller with stock setup, then the full tractive setup. The deltas between these is really what we are all after. Also thanks to Scot for chiming in. Pretty clear now on everything, although a confirmation on the ride height sensor would be nice.

Yes, this plus a (subjective is OK) review of the ride smoothness for normal street driving

[Scot@Prefix]

I will dig into the FCA Dealer connect and see what i can find on the three (3) sensors it mentions in the manual.
One on each front tire, and the right rear tire.

Just shipped two vipers today, so i only have three at the shop to look at :/

[DSCSport]

We read your comments and questions and wanted to put together a video for the forum explaining exactly how the factory shocks will work with the DSCSport controller. Thank you for your patience. We do have another video we created for the forum that explains how you can modify the Vipers stock suspension on your PC. Stay tuned. Thank you.






Working with the DSCSport Software

[Dr.Ron]

I don't know how to read the graphs in the video, but it looked like the DSC with the stock shock made a green line, which looked almost to overwrite the line without the DSC (stock)...meaning it didn't really do anything??

[ViperGeorge]

I don't know how to read the graphs in the video, but it looked like the DSC with the stock shock made a green line, which looked almost to overwrite the line without the DSC (stock)...meaning it didn't really do anything??

Look at the video again at 5:47. It seems that after combining the two curves there is a difference in ramp up.

[Dr.Ron]

I see the differences in the lines when the graph plot first starts, but it looks like the lines end up the same after that, no?
As I mentioned, I don't know what's plotted there or how to read that specific graph & what it means for the suspension, but the lines seem to trace each other after that initial difference, so is there in fact a difference overall?

[Bruce H.]

Force is plotted on the vertical axis, with the compression plot above the base line and rebound below. Base line is 0 damper force, with increasing force above and below. The touring (Street Mode) plot is closer to the base line than the sport (Race Mode) indicating much less damper force being applied in touring, which yields the softer ride.

The horizontal axis is damper shaft speed, 0 ft/sec at the left, and higher shaft speeds as you move right. When a car enters into a corner and leans a little, or brakes and the nose dives, that body movement and associated damper shaft travel is relatively slow speed and that's the plots you see at the left side of the graph, starting at 0 and quickly increasing above the base line as a damper compresses as it takes more of the weight of the car. If the car hit a bump that would cause the damper shaft to move extremely fast, and that scenario would be plotted to the right, with other scenarios plotted in-between.

If you're concerned about ride quality that's really more dictated by how a car's dampers handle bumps, so you look to the right portion and see that in sport (Race Mode) that a lot more force is being applied by the damper than in touring (Street Mode), which means a bump will be met with a jarring response from the damper in Race Mode. I don't see how the DSC controller could make the damper less jarring than stock set to Street Mode because it can't reduce force below that factory curve, only ramp it up towards the Race Mode curve.

But I do see that the controller could potentially provide benefits for other specific aspects of performance.

[Dr.Ron]

Makes more sense now.
Looking forward to pt 2.

[sharmut]

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhddiwOgCwk

[DSCSport]

Thanks Sharmut. I'm linking the video directly here as well. We are working on a F.A.Q. as well. Hope that will help.

[One Viper Bite]

This is all coming together much better now. Thank you, Mike and DSC.

It would be really great to get a set of these to the community test out NVE3.

[sharmut]

Hi Scott,

Any chance I could leverage your FCA connection to provide the CANBUS ID for the Street <-> Race mode? Would be great to capture this data in my VBOX HD2 as the system toggles the mode behind the scenes.

[Bruce]

Hi Michael,
I so happen to also own a Porsche 991 and a Shelby GT350R and will the controller work on these other cars once the respective vehicle specific base programs are loaded? Sometimes I never know how long I will keep a car but if the controller is not vehicle specific, it makes the purchase a lot easier to justify.