Instrument Cluster Flicker Issue

[One Viper Bite]

Since I took delivery of my 1 of 1 GTC, the instrument cluster has an issue with flickering. I've noticed that this only happens after a few days of not driving the car. If the car sits for more than 3 or 4 days, the minute I get into it and start it up, the instrument cluster flickers rapidly and constantly. The flicker then gets progressively worse as I begin to drive the car. Sometimes, mid drive, the cluster will go completely dark. However, the issue usually disappears after I've driven the car for about an hour or so/ From there, the issue doesn't reappear until I let it sit again for a few more days. Below is a video of the issue:



I've solved this issue by leaving the car on a trickle charger at all times, but to be honest, it seems like the cluster is way too temper-mental for this to be normal. If the car was sitting for 3-4 weeks, I would understand, but 3-4 DAYS seems abnormal. I've taken the car to the dealer and my Viper Tech said there isn't really a solve and that I should just keep it on the trickle charger.

Anyone else experience this issue?

[swexlin]

Brian, my car sits on a tender for weeks/months at a time (I've had it out 3 times since Thanksgiving). Never had an issue with the cluster flickering. (Knock wood) Could indeed be your battery is funky, tender or no, or there is a loose connection.

Electrical gremlins are a PITA to track down.

[ViperGeorge]

Run the SRT Performance pages, what does it say about your voltage? It should be around 14.2-14.4 volts. The car should be running off the alternator when the engine is running, not the battery. If the voltage is much lower than 14.2 volts you have a bad alternator. If the voltage is ok I would say there is something wrong in the dash - wire, voltage regulator, etc. Not sure what voltage the dash runs off of but it might not be 12v+. Many sensors on the car run off of 5 volts. Those controlled by the PCM receive a 5 volt signal from it. Maybe the dash does too. If so, then maybe whatever is providing the voltage required by the dash is malfunctioning.

People always point to the battery when there is any issue with a Viper. I never understood that. I once had to jump start my 09 ACR after it was trucked from Charlotte to Denver. Battery was stone cold dead. Got the car started and drove home from the drop off point (25 miles). Car ran fine. When I got home I checked the voltage on the battery with the engine off it still read 4.5 volts. My 14 GTS' battery recently went dead after the trickle charger I had on it crapped out. Jump started the car and drove it. It also ran fine with no issues even though I know the battery was discharged.

[texasram]

Have you tried turning on ignition and not starting it then seeing if it flickers? a healthy battery charge is 12.66 volts when car is off, then jumps to 14.4 after starting.

[swexlin]

George, that's some good advice.

[AZTVR]

Have you tried turning on ignition and not starting it then seeing if it flickers? a healthy battery charge is 12.66 volts when car is off, then jumps to 14.4 after starting.

Both the OFF & ON flicker test and voltage measurement tests are excellent first troubleshooting steps.

[texasram]

I feel like the duty cycle of the alternator may be high after starting because when not using the tender, the battery seems to be dropping below the rest charge due to a parisitic current drain issue? or just a defective battery? Thus after starting, the alternator is working harder to charge the battery, and after a certain time of charging, the load on the alternator is decreased and the cluster isnt affected at this point. also there have been wonky alternators on here as well, i remember some ones caught fire under the hood

[AZTVR]

What I would do is measure the voltage with a Digital Multimeter that can read AC volts in the millivolt range. When the car normally has the flicker problem, put the DMM in AC volts mode and watch the voltage as the dash is flickering, and then when it stops flickering.

Like I mentioned in your original post about this in 2016, the Honda S2000 has a very similar problem with a flickering digital dash. I found the cause on my car to be one bad diode in the alternator's rectifier bridge. The alternator checked good under standard tests. I have experienced two failures, each shown to have one open diode. The flickering usually went away when the car got hot. I am having the same problem again right now, for about a minute. I just went out and did the test above. At startup while the flickering was occurring, I saw around 100 mv (0.100 volts) AC volts when it was flickering and then it went down to around 30 mV when I could not see flickering. I tried the same test on my Jeep, and at cold start it showed 25mV. I do not know what are acceptable/unacceptable limits; but, I'm guessing that over 100mv is what is enough to see on a digital dash. Note that the rectifier diode bridge is what changes the AC voltage created by the alternator to a DC voltage. I believe that the battery and the load of the rest of the car also act to smooth out the alternator output's remaining AC components

[One Viper Bite]

Run the SRT Performance pages, what does it say about your voltage? It should be around 14.2-14.4 volts. The car should be running off the alternator when the engine is running, not the battery. If the voltage is much lower than 14.2 volts you have a bad alternator. If the voltage is ok I would say there is something wrong in the dash - wire, voltage regulator, etc. Not sure what voltage the dash runs off of but it might not be 12v+. Many sensors on the car run off of 5 volts. Those controlled by the PCM receive a 5 volt signal from it. Maybe the dash does too. If so, then maybe whatever is providing the voltage required by the dash is malfunctioning.

People always point to the battery when there is any issue with a Viper. I never understood that. I once had to jump start my 09 ACR after it was trucked from Charlotte to Denver. Battery was stone cold dead. Got the car started and drove home from the drop off point (25 miles). Car ran fine. When I got home I checked the voltage on the battery with the engine off it still read 4.5 volts. My 14 GTS' battery recently went dead after the trickle charger I had on it crapped out. Jump started the car and drove it. It also ran fine with no issues even though I know the battery was discharged.

Sorry, the video was not working. It should work now.

I've tested with the car running as well as with the car off with the ignition on. If you watch the video, the voltage is above 14v at all times and this is ALWAYS the case when the issue is happening. That's why I don't think it is the battery, but why does the issue not happen when the car has been driven consistently or when I've had it on the trickle charger?

[AZTVR]

I found a good article on the subject that I am talking about. It suggests that over 500mv (0.5V) is unacceptable. However, they say that it is most accurate to measure directly at the alternator output; whereas I was measuring at the battery. Anyway, something to consider. http://www.pvv.org/~syljua/merc/TooSeptST07.pdf

[AZTVR]

I just saw the video. It seems unlikely that my idea is the cause since the problem only appears in the one display but not the other, unless it is a combination of multiple causes. However, I can't imagine how it flickers like that unless there is a substantial AC component on the power supply line that shouldn't be there. Unless the flicker is only related to the vibration of the running engine, shaking a bad connection.

[stradman]

Since I took delivery of my 1 of 1 GTC, the instrument cluster has an issue with flickering. I've noticed that this only happens after a few days of not driving the car. If the car sits for more than 3 or 4 days, the minute I get into it and start it up, the instrument cluster flickers rapidly and constantly. The flicker then gets progressively worse as I begin to drive the car. Sometimes, mid drive, the cluster will go completely dark. However, the issue usually disappears after I've driven the car for about an hour or so/ From there, the issue doesn't reappear until I let it sit again for a few more days. Below is a video of the issue:



I've solved this issue by leaving the car on a trickle charger at all times, but to be honest, it seems like the cluster is way too temper-mental for this to be normal. If the car was sitting for 3-4 weeks, I would understand, but 3-4 DAYS seems abnormal. I've taken the car to the dealer and my Viper Tech said there isn't really a solve and that I should just keep it on the trickle charger.

Anyone else experience this issue?

Yes I had this exact same problem. Turned out to be loose battery lead. Ensure all terminal connections are screwed tight. Maybe another loose connection somewhere too.

[DZnutz]

Um, I would stop driving that car immediately before you fry some very expensive electronics

[SRT_BluByU]

sounds like a bad ground wire or bad alternatoe or bad ecm /(which regulates the voltage in these cars). check he engine ground strap on the passenger side near the motor mount make sure its not loose on either end.. check to make sure the battery terminals are tight if te answer is yes to both take it to the shop

[Jack B]

1. Loose or high resistance connection.

2. A transient electrical load.

3. A. Depleted battery with the alternator trying to charge the battery while trying to maintain varying electrical loads.

Very minor changes in voltage can be detected in light sources.

[ViperGeorge]

Sorry, the video was not working. It should work now.

I've tested with the car running as well as with the car off with the ignition on. If you watch the video, the voltage is above 14v at all times and this is ALWAYS the case when the issue is happening. That's why I don't think it is the battery, but why does the issue not happen when the car has been driven consistently or when I've had it on the trickle charger?

Hmmm. A loose connection (or an electronic component) somewhere that acts up until it heats up? I could see a somewhat loose connection getting tighter if the connecting bolt heats up. I would check ground connections or if the car is still under warranty insist that the dealer changes the dash cluster or at a very minimum checks with SRT. This is not normal.

I was once running a Mustang in the One Lap of America that had intermittent warning lights on the dash. Turned out to be a loose wire on the alternator. You learn a lot about trouble shooting on One Lap when your under your car in a Pizza Hut parking lot somewhere at 2am.

[One Viper Bite]

Hmmm. A loose connection (or an electronic component) somewhere that acts up until it heats up? I could see a somewhat loose connection getting tighter if the connecting bolt heats up. I would check ground connections or if the car is still under warranty insist that the dealer changes the dash cluster or at a very minimum checks with SRT. This is not normal.

I was once running a Mustang in the One Lap of America that had intermittent warning lights on the dash. Turned out to be a loose wire on the alternator. You learn a lot about trouble shooting on One Lap when your under your car in a Pizza Hut parking lot somewhere at 2am.

This is the same reason I'm hesitant to think it's a loose connection. Why does it go away after I've driven the car for a while or left it on a trickle charger? Wouldn't a loose connection be faulty at any voltage or battery charge? Why does letting the car sit for days cause it? And Why does it go away after an hour or so of driving? It doesn't add up.

Also, battery terminals have been checked multiple times. Everything is on tight.

And I really would prefer not having the Viper Tech replace the instrument cluster as it doesn't seem to be the issue based on my tests. Every time my last Viper was taken apart, no matter how careful the Viper Tech was, it always came back with new squeaks and rattles. Granted, the car had a bad history, but I just get uneasy thinking about the entire dash coming apart without good reason.

[AZTVR]

The only other suggestion that I would have beyond all those above is to do the simplest and easiest thing first. Touch the fuses that feed the Instrument cluster while the failure is happening and see if the failure changes. Then wiggle them and see if it changes the symptoms. Then replace them. Yes, it hardly seems like something could be wrong there; but, they are in the engine compartment close to engine vibration and could be affected by the heat. I can't imagine how a defect with them would be affected by the state of charge of the battery. But, eliminate the cheapest possible cause first.

[Viper98]

I love these kind of threads: so much to be learned.

All of the above are Great suggestions. I would not rule out any of them. Electronics can be weird.
Here’s a thought: we all know: heat expands and cold contracts. So, if the flicker happens when cold the contact/connection is broken (“open”). When it heats up (this may take an hour) the connection is made (“closed”) and all is good. When the car cools down so do it’s components, thereby, creating a “open” situation. And we’re off to the races, again. Argh! It becomes a heat/cold cycle. What a bear that could be to find.Ouch! It’s no wonder it can’t be found, it’s such a tiny break.
I speculate that if it is sometype of contuity break the “arcing” across the open contact points, (before expanding) will get worse over time, as the arc eats away at the “open” ends of the connection. It’s a vicious cycle.
Obviously, one side can be worse.
Any electronic connection can be broken/open ANYWHERE.
This problem can be anywhere, but I was mostly referring to the dash lights/electronics.

In this possibility the battery and alternator have nothing to do with the problem. They may be functioning properly.

[Camfab]

I love that you have a 100 K car and the "Viper tech" says the solution is to keep it on the trickle charger..........

[AZTVR]

I love that you have a 100 K car and the "Viper tech" says the solution is to keep it on the trickle charger..........

That is just his way of saying that he can not solve the problem in the time that he can afford to spend. He is saying that the owner needs to find another tech that will do the job if he wants it fixed.

[ViperGeorge]

This is the same reason I'm hesitant to think it's a loose connection. Why does it go away after I've driven the car for a while or left it on a trickle charger? Wouldn't a loose connection be faulty at any voltage or battery charge? Why does letting the car sit for days cause it? And Why does it go away after an hour or so of driving? It doesn't add up.

Also, battery terminals have been checked multiple times. Everything is on tight.

And I really would prefer not having the Viper Tech replace the instrument cluster as it doesn't seem to be the issue based on my tests. Every time my last Viper was taken apart, no matter how careful the Viper Tech was, it always came back with new squeaks and rattles. Granted, the car had a bad history, but I just get uneasy thinking about the entire dash coming apart without good reason.

I am suggesting as is Viper98 that heat causes metal to expand and cold causes it to contract. If there is a marginal connection somewhere then heat might expand the metal causing the connection to improve. An electronic component could fail in the same way. Bottom line is that you should get SRT involved. They may know what the problem is or can suggest diagnostic procedure. They can tell the Tech what to do. Besides based on your model year the car is still under warranty. I would not accept the Tech saying leave it on a trickle charger. That's BS and he knows it.

[ViperGeorge]

I just watched your video again. Could the flicker be related to the dash light dimmer? I've seen bad dimmers do that on other lights.

By the way, regarding the heat issue, 60s Mustangs had headlight switches in the dash that contained a relay. When these switches were bad the headlights would go on and off every couple of seconds. When on the relay would heat up it would internally disconnect and the lights would go off. Then with the lights off it would cool off and reconnect. Pretty annoying when you are driving through Colorado in the middle of the night on the Cannanball One Lap of America. Luckily I knew exactly what it was. This was in like 2003 and who would have known that O'Reily's had a headlight switch for a 65 Mustang on the shelf. Lucky I guess.

[Jack B]

pretty easy to rule out the battery, a simple voltage drop/resistive test. If you do not have one, going to Harbor Freight is better than going to the dealer. It is the only simple way to get true battery health.