Thinking about buying a viper a few questions

[IntendedAcceleration]

Hello everyone, I'm thinking about buying a viper on the other side of the country. I'm located in California. I had a few questions-

I am a fat middle aged guy. Like really fat. 5'9 and 300 pounds. I have a bad lower back, but most of the time it only gets sore when I do stupid stuff like unloading a ton of rocks with a shovel and stuff like that. I drive a Neon SRT-4 and I have a Dakota, and they ride pretty rough, but nowhere near as rough as my buddy's Lotus Exige. My question is - can this car be a daily driver? It doesn't rain here from about now until October or November. I do drive an hour each day in pretty bad traffic, and I know the interior heats up, but I've heard as long as the A/C is on, you're fine.

Is it too rough riding? Am I too fat? I've read up against really tall guys needing seat lowering equipment, but not many threads from big guys.

As far as what to look for - I'm planning on having a service like lemon squad look the car over. I don't know if the dealer is willing for me to coordinate shipping to a dodge dealer and have a viper tech go over it. That being said, what should I look for on a higher mileage viper? This is a 2003, so I know it will have the forged rods which is good, but it has the 120 degree crank oiling which is not good for the rods. Is listening for tapping/knocking, looking at the oil pressure at startup and at regular temp good enough? I'd love to pull the plugs and get a compression test done, along with a crank endplay checked out, but I'm not sure if even Dodge would do that, let alone the dealer allow a private mechanic to wrench around the car for the better part of a day. Am I missing anything else? I know the T56 is pretty robust - no not a TR6060, but otherwise a pretty good gearbox. How long does a gently-driven clutch last?

Thanks again. I wasn't sure if this was the best place to post this, but I thought the new owner probably wouldn't be the best place to ask because they are just learning the cars themselves.

Oh - I think y'all would appreciate this. I finished up a thesis in graduate school in December (I went to grad school very late...No, I'm not in my 20's LOL). It was on autonomous vehicles (blah, I know) but I actually got to have a telephone interview with Bob Lutz. First thing I did was let him know how much I loved the Viper and thanked him for convincing Dodge to build it. (At least that's how it sounded in his book "Guts").

[det000]

I'm 5' 8" and 150 lbs. The seats are snug. I wouldn't recommend daily driving it in CA. I've driven it in rush hour a few times and it sucks. A/C isn't the problem but the roads are terrible in CA and the suspension is tight. It's pretty similar to an Exige. Clutch is pretty heavy too. All that doesn't seem like a good recipe for a bad back.

[Fatman2006]

Hello everyone, I'm thinking about buying a viper on the other side of the country. I'm located in California. I had a few questions-

I am a fat middle aged guy. Like really fat. 5'9 and 300 pounds. I have a bad lower back, but most of the time it only gets sore when I do stupid stuff like unloading a ton of rocks with a shovel and stuff like that. I drive a Neon SRT-4 and I have a Dakota, and they ride pretty rough, but nowhere near as rough as my buddy's Lotus Exige. My question is - can this car be a daily driver? It doesn't rain here from about now until October or November. I do drive an hour each day in pretty bad traffic, and I know the interior heats up, but I've heard as long as the A/C is on, you're fine.

Is it too rough riding? Am I too fat? I've read up against really tall guys needing seat lowering equipment, but not many threads from big guys.

As far as what to look for - I'm planning on having a service like lemon squad look the car over. I don't know if the dealer is willing for me to coordinate shipping to a dodge dealer and have a viper tech go over it. That being said, what should I look for on a higher mileage viper? This is a 2003, so I know it will have the forged rods which is good, but it has the 120 degree crank oiling which is not good for the rods. Is listening for tapping/knocking, looking at the oil pressure at startup and at regular temp good enough? I'd love to pull the plugs and get a compression test done, along with a crank endplay checked out, but I'm not sure if even Dodge would do that, let alone the dealer allow a private mechanic to wrench around the car for the better part of a day. Am I missing anything else? I know the T56 is pretty robust - no not a TR6060, but otherwise a pretty good gearbox. How long does a gently-driven clutch last?

Thanks again. I wasn't sure if this was the best place to post this, but I thought the new owner probably wouldn't be the best place to ask because they are just learning the cars themselves.

Oh - I think y'all would appreciate this. I finished up a thesis in graduate school in December (I went to grad school very late...No, I'm not in my 20's LOL). It was on autonomous vehicles (blah, I know) but I actually got to have a telephone interview with Bob Lutz. First thing I did was let him know how much I loved the Viper and thanked him for convincing Dodge to build it. (At least that's how it sounded in his book "Guts").

I'm 5'10" 175 athletic build, workout regularly. I daily drive my Viper and it kicks my ass getting in and out of it. It's just an awkward movement to get in and out. The car is low and you sit very close to the centerline which makes it difficult to get in and out. I say buy, but have a different car to daily drive.

[Stealth78]

I'm 5'10" 175 athletic build, workout regularly. I daily drive my Viper and it kicks my ass getting in and out of it. It's just an awkward movement to get in and out. The car is low and you sit very close to the centerline which makes it difficult to get in and out. I say buy, but have a different car to daily drive.

You appear to have a coupe by looking at your avatar (I think). He is speaking in regards to an 03, verts are actually quite easy to get in and out of if the top is down!

[Stealth78]

OP, do you not have anyone near you in CA so that you can at least sit in one and possibly go for a ride? You shouldn't have that hard of a time finding someone over there to assist you with that. What is your interpretation of "high miles"?

[parabs]

...

As far as what to look for - I'm planning on having a service like lemon squad look the car over. I don't know if the dealer is willing for me to coordinate shipping to a dodge dealer and have a viper tech go over it. That being said, what should I look for on a higher mileage viper? This is a 2003, so I know it will have the forged rods which is good, but it has the 120 degree crank oiling which is not good for the rods. Is listening for tapping/knocking, looking at the oil pressure at startup and at regular temp good enough? I'd love to pull the plugs and get a compression test done, along with a crank endplay checked out, but I'm not sure if even Dodge would do that, let alone the dealer allow a private mechanic to wrench around the car for the better part of a day. Am I missing anything else? I know the T56 is pretty robust - no not a TR6060, but otherwise a pretty good gearbox. How long does a gently-driven clutch last?

Thanks again. I wasn't sure if this was the best place to post this, but I thought the new owner probably wouldn't be the best place to ask because they are just learning the cars themselves.

...

Find Dan Cragin in California, one of the highest recommended viper guru's out there. He would be a major asset in vetting out a quality car.

http://specialtyperformanceteam.com/shop/pc/home.asp

Higher mileage? How high? If the car has appropriate maintenance records then I wouldn't be concerned about the mileage necessarily.

As far as comfort goes, the cars are stiff and the seats are tight and the cabin is small. I drove my 2005 about 500 miles over two days a couple years ago and found it to be just fine for a longer highway trek vs the usual in-town blasts I usually take my cars on.

[FrankBarba]

PM Sent....

[06SRTCoupe]

OP, like Stealth said, try and locate someone with a Gen3/4 and see if you can go on a ride along with them so you can get a feel for the car and if you would be comfortable in it or not. As others have said, I would not daily drive it. Save it for those nice weekends or days off of work.

[IntendedAcceleration]

Thank you all - I am looking at two different ones that are frankly priced less than a new Camry. Both are at regular car dealerships (e.g. not one of the shady ones, nor one specializing in exotics) and they both have about 70k miles give or take. They are priced about $7k below market based on what I've seen (I've been keeping an eye out for several months now). Part of me likes the fact that they are not very low mileage cars - indicative to me that they were, at the least partially, driven on the street and not exclusively track cars.

I don't mind wrenching on cars, I've been working on them since the late 90's, but I don't dig into engines, and don't touch rear end gears. Everything else I'm comfortable with (Clutches, etc.).

For the price I could probably pick up an older Z06, or a newer Mustang GT or Camaro, but I've wanted a viper since 1990 when I saw it revealed at the Detroit auto show, and I am attracted to the unapologetic visceral quality of the Viper. I'm not expecting to be coddled when I drive it, and I'm familiar with high performance clutch issues. I had a Camaro with a kevlar clutch, and have an SRT-4 with an ACT Clutch and lightweight flywheel (It bucks like you wouldn't believe but is the nature when you mount the engine the wrong way).

Getting into my buddy's Exige is comically difficult for me because you have to do a sit-up to fit your head in it, and basically fall into the seat. I could not handle that every day for sure. For me a daily driver would be on average 3 days a week, 25 miles each way, over what I would consider pretty decent roads (I grew up in Michigan, so a dirt road is smooth in comparison). It is a mix of back roads with a dozen stoplights and relatively moderate traffic, followed by a ~5 mile stretch where idling in first gear is too fast (Seriously). I'll see if I can find a local person willing to let me ride in it - that is a really great idea.

Thank you all! I really hope it works out for me, y'all seem like a really nice group of enthusiasts!

[City]

There's a LOT of big guys that own and enjoy Vipers. But you really should find a club member in your area and plant you butt in one before committing cash.

It suggest you try to find a Viper from one of our members, or the acquaintance of a member since you'll get a true history on the car. That's important with a high mileage car, especially a Viper. Maybe also post in the Cali regions?


Just went there to post the link ... and you already posted. Good move and best of luck!

[Fatman2006]

You appear to have a coupe by looking at your avatar (I think). He is speaking in regards to an 03, verts are actually quite easy to get in and out of if the top is down!

You're right I have a coupe and I overlooked him saying he wanted a vert. Sorry about that.

[bulitt]

How are your knees? As mentioned- difficult getting in. And getting out you are so low you need to grab something-seat bolster, door frame etc.

[IntendedAcceleration]

Knees are good. This is really off topic, but I'm getting bariatric surgery this summer, so I hope to do something (A lot) about the weight. I have spinal stenosis and disc degeneration mild bulge L4-L5 and L5-S1 (For any ortho surgeons on the board). Most of the time I'm fine, but about 4 times over the last 15 years, it acts up and I literally need a cane to walk for a week. But - I am not the kind of person to give up and drive a camry lol.

I got word back from one of the dealers that it sold locally. I think I am going to hold off on the other one. I am still interested in opinions for a future purchase, but timing has been lousy on my part. I'm going to try and ride in one in between searching for one, so I can pull the trigger faster. I prefer yellow and black before red, but the prices were too good to pass up, and I know yellow vipers are really hard to find.

I know I will not be able to afford a 4th gen, but sometimes I see 2006's fairly close to 03/04/05 models. Is the tradeoff of forged rods better than the somewhat improved oil system upgrade on the 2006, or the other way around? Are the 2004/2005 cars that much inferior because they have neither? To me it sounds like there is not much difference with all of the very high hp builds out there on 2003-2005 cars. I've read as much as I can find of the year-to-year differences. I keep trying to find the Maurice book that covers 3rd gens, but I can't find a copy for sale anywhere for a reasonable price. I do have his 5th gen book though.

Thanks again for the info everyone!

[Stealth78]

First off, what is your price range? You can find GenIII verts fairly inexpensively, especially 03 & 04. As for the rods you speak of, I have heard different rumors or mentions of different rods in the GenIII as the years went on. I'm not sure what the truth is, I actually thought it was just a different casting process, like powdered metal or something, not forged. Regardless if there is truth to it or not it's really not the rods you need to worry about, it the hypereutectic pistons that are the week link in all GenIII and GenIV cars. Although I wouldn't concern yourself with that either unless you plan to exceed 650-700 whp.

[FrankBarba]

another PM sent

[IntendedAcceleration]

Thank you Stealth, and absolutely gorgeous car. I love the more wild mopar colors and yellow and lime green are about as cool as it gets (As far as stock goes). Please don't laugh, I'm really looking at the very low end of Vipers. One was $25k and the other is $27k. I realize that people have that much into a nice set of brakes, but the cost of living in California is killer (And I'm not a doctor). Realistically, I've been eyeballing ones no more than about $35k. That range has popped up a decent amount of 03's and 04's. I've even seen an 05 & 06 every one in a great while.

Because I really do honestly plan on daily driving it; (Part of the reason I moved here from the midwest is so I could drive a "fun" vehicle year round) and I don't want to deal with smog and state referees. The newer smog program doesn't actually sniff the exhausts anymore, but I guess I'm getting at the fact that realistically the most I would probably do is get rid of the crossover exhaust setup and if California ever gets rid of the OEM Cat law, then probably replacing the side sill cats with higher flowing and (From what I've read) cooler running ones. Most of the time the viper would be driven at 1/10 - 3/10.

I had read, although I cannot find concrete proof other than a few random posts from several years ago, that the 03 engines had forged rods, and they went to powdered metal ones afterwards. I do remember hearing or reading someone from Dodge (Can't remember if it was Gilles, Winkles or someone else) that talked about how going to a forged piston consumed more horsepower, but they had Mahle (?) forge the new ones and only consumed a few hp over the cast ones. Whomever it was, said the reason for doing so was because people were popping motors when applying forced induction. Ultimate Factory did a show on the 4th Gen viper and Although they did spend a good amount of time on the engine, I wish they had spent more time.

I did not realize that the pistons though were a bigger problem than the oiling. I had read about the Greg Good mod, and it looked like a good idea, but even though the mains would be staring at me in the face if I pulled the oil pan, it looked like you had to know which of the two or three main crank journal holes to block off.

I'm getting off topic quite a bit, my apologies. I do like the coupes better because I sunburn as bad as a snowman, so even with the vert, I'd keep the top up most of the time, or get a hardtop later down the road. That seems like a foolish thing to do, I admit (Why not just buy a coupe from the beginning), but I save myself a couple of grand because there seems to be a big premium for coupes.

[Stealth78]

If you have the ability to shop more on the upper end of your range you should have no problems finding a nice GenIII verts. Myself along with a couple other members helped sell a previous members 04 Mamba, black, 12,XXX miles, for $38,000 last year. That truly is the going rate for these cars. You should not have any issues locating a car for around $35,000 with 20,000 - 30,000 miles on it, which is half or potentially a third of the miles that you previously mentioned. I also agree with the previous comment that you should try and buy from a known member from this forum. That way you can have some traceability of what that cars past really consisted of!