KnN drop in filter dyno results

[Cobra723]

So I've heard all different types of things about the K&N drop in filter from different owners. Some say it loses HP, some say it doesn't make a difference at all, while others say they've seen a difference.

I for one like concrete hard evidence rather than speculation as do most of us probably. So I decided that I was going to purchase one and do some dyno testing on it to see if it makes any difference at all.

I wanted to keep the results as close as possible so all testing was done on the same day, same dyno. As soon as I got to the dyno, I was strapped up. We waited roughly 30 mins before doing the first pull, allowing the car to cool off. We did 3 back-to-back pulls on the stock filter. First pull was significantly lower then my previous dyno, but second and third pull was about 10hp less but that was probably due to the fact that it was a warmer day today.

We let the car cool off another 30 mins while I installed the K&N drop in filter, then did 3 back-to-back pulls. Here are the results.

Stock filter results:

Stock Filter 1.jpg
Stock Filter 2.jpg
Stock Filter 3.jpg

K&N filter results:

K&N Filter 1.jpg
K&N Filter 2.jpg

[Cobra723]

K&N Filter 3.jpg

So the K&N drop-in filter nets roughly 10whp-10wtq on my setup. There you have it folks.

Ninja edit: I should note that this was on the same tune. Nothing was changed as far as tuning parameters go.

[Jet Slicker]

Great results and thank you for doing this! Great info for the community. Also, what are your mods and what was the temperature and altitude? Thanks!

[cashcorn]

Cobra723, Thanks for documenting! I just did the drop-in K&N & under drive pulley last week. Now, I'm curious..

[SRT_BluByU]

so just over 1% gain in power... dont know if the tradeoff in filtration is worth it on a 645hp engine..

[Cobra723]

Great results and thank you for doing this! Great info for the community. Also, what are your mods and what was the temperature and altitude? Thanks!

ARH headers, ARH exhaust, IPSCO UD pulley, DSE intake heat shield, tuned on HPtuners. Roughly about 78 degs and I believe we’re 13’ above sea level.

Cobra723, Thanks for documenting! I just did the drop-in K&N & under drive pulley last week. Now, I'm curious..

No problem, glad I can help out the community. I highly recommend you do it and get retuned. The better throttle response in itself is worth it.

so just over 1% gain in power... dont know if the tradeoff in filtration is worth it on a 645hp engine..

I don’t think they’ll be that drastic of a difference in filtration. But look at it this way, it’s roughly $6 per horsepower. Which is a bargain for our cars.

[Jet Slicker]

ARH headers, ARH exhaust, IPSCO UD pulley, DSE intake heat shield, tuned on HPtuners. Roughly about 78 degs and I believe we’re 13’ above sea level.

Awesome. Cats or no cats? I have full ARH with no cats and the drone is unbearable. Will probably be switching to cats in the spring.

[ForTehNguyen]

eyes going cross trying to find which rpm the gains were, looks like high end only?

[ForTehNguyen]

so just over 1% gain in power... dont know if the tradeoff in filtration is worth it on a 645hp engine..

K&N addressed filtration ability. Im still thinking about it

https://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm#MYTHS

[ViperPete]

Nice, thanks for doing this.

When mine needs changing, i'll get a K&N.

[serpent]

I've seen the full bolton guys do this before going heads and cam.

Full exhaust, under drive pulley, k&n drop in, intake smooth tubes, dse intake heat shield, ngk spark plugs.. every bit helps. Not many options like a corvette.

[pdv25]

Going to try a K&N tomorrow on the dyno. I'll do before and after pulls. Would be nice to see the same gains you got.

[8400cc]

K&N addressed filtration ability. Im still thinking about it

https://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm#MYTHS

Well, I couldn't help myself and took the bait. Fair bit of reading to get through all that, well written though. Any increase in performance is worth the read. After essentially being convinced that the air filter will be less restrictive, and last longer I wanted to check the cost and options available. 2 products available, the drop in flat filter described above and also the Typhoon setup which I'm sure many of you have heard about. At the bottom of the Typhoon write up there are 2 dyno graphs, with gains of 13 hp and 26 hp, the only difference being that the 13hp gain was a bone stock 13 viper and the 26hp gain from a 2016 ACR also stock. Now unless I'm missing something here can someone explain how this is possible ? Does the stock ECU in the acr or later model years have a greater ability to make use of a slight bump in air flow. Please share some insight, if I don't get my answer here I will email K&N to see what the scoop is. Here are the 2 links for the 2 graphs.

https://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-2528_dyno.pdf
https://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts...28-16_dyno.pdf

[Cobra723]

Awesome. Cats or no cats? I have full ARH with no cats and the drone is unbearable. Will probably be switching to cats in the spring.

No cats, I don’t find the drone to be bad at all to be honest. Or maybe I’m just deaf lol

I've seen the full bolton guys do this before going heads and cam.

Full exhaust, under drive pulley, k&n drop in, intake smooth tubes, dse intake heat shield, ngk spark plugs.. every bit helps. Not many options like a corvette.

Forgot to add smooth tubes, got those as well.

Going to try a K&N tomorrow on the dyno. I'll do before and after pulls. Would be nice to see the same gains you got.

Theoretically you should see a little bit more but who knows...

eyes going cross trying to find which rpm the gains were, looks like high end only?

Mostly above 5000rpm

[TrackAire]

I'm no dyno expert but I don't understand why K&N does Viper dyno runs in 3rd gear. They also did this on the Gen 4 and had no reasoning behind it when I asked them.

Regarding the potential gains the K&N filter might give....you have to realize that the rear end gear oil will free up horsepower when it gets hot....the hotter, the less drag it creates. Doing 3 dyno runs and letting the car sit for 30 minute really heat soaks the rear end and makes the oil very hot (max pulls but not air flow or cruising to cool the oil down). If you really want to be sure the K&N is giving you 10 hp, then start the dyno test with the K&N, do the 3 runs and let the car cool down for 30 minutes and then dyno the stock element filter element. If you see the hp drop by 10 hp, then the K&N might very well free up some horsepower. But if the horsepower goes up 10 hp then it doesn't matter which filter you use since both provided the exact same results when run both ways.

On the dyno, to really prove something is working when doing back to back same day testing, you have to run the test in both directions to avoid plus or minus accuracy errors when dealing with something like a 1% power gain up or down.

I remember seeing a video with Dick Winkles where he claimed rear end oil temps on a Gen 5 was worth like 9 hp on the dyno....maybe somebody can find it and post it to verify that my numbers are correct.

[cashcorn]

No problem, glad I can help out the community. I highly recommend you do it and get retuned. The better throttle response in itself is worth it.

I noticed better throttle response right at start-up & on the street driving with the K&N air filter & IPSCO ud pulley. I hope to get back out to A&C performance for a retune /dyno soon.

[ayousef]

I'm no dyno expert but I don't understand why K&N does Viper dyno runs in 3rd gear. They also did this on the Gen 4 and had no reasoning behind it when I asked them.

Regarding the potential gains the K&N filter might give....you have to realize that the rear end gear oil will free up horsepower when it gets hot....the hotter, the less drag it creates. Doing 3 dyno runs and letting the car sit for 30 minute really heat soaks the rear end and makes the oil very hot (max pulls but not air flow or cruising to cool the oil down). If you really want to be sure the K&N is giving you 10 hp, then start the dyno test with the K&N, do the 3 runs and let the car cool down for 30 minutes and then dyno the stock element filter element. If you see the hp drop by 10 hp, then the K&N might very well free up some horsepower. But if the horsepower goes up 10 hp then it doesn't matter which filter you use since both provided the exact same results when run both ways.

On the dyno, to really prove something is working when doing back to back same day testing, you have to run the test in both directions to avoid plus or minus accuracy errors when dealing with something like a 1% power gain up or down.

I remember seeing a video with Dick Winkles where he claimed rear end oil temps on a Gen 5 was worth like 9 hp on the dyno....maybe somebody can find it and post it to verify that my numbers are correct.

Never heard of this rear end heating up theory before! The rear end shouldnt heat up on dyno pulls that last a few seconds at a time. Also the diff holds 2 liters of oil only which should cool down really quick. The diff oil heating up wont free 10rwhp

[Steve M]

Never heard of this rear end heating up theory before! The rear end shouldnt heat up on dyno pulls that last a few seconds at a time. Also the diff holds 2 liters of oil only which should cool down really quick. The diff oil heating up wont free 10rwhp

Oil takes much longer to cool down than it does to heat up. The differential capacity is also 1.43L per the manual, which is not a lot of fluid to dissipate the heat generated by the gears.

I agree with what TrackAire said - in order to eliminate the possibility of fluid temps being a contributor, another set of 3 pulls should have been done after the K&N filter pulls to verify the gains.

K&N doesn't make some magical product, but they do have a very good marketing team. Want to sell a product? Cherry pick the results that skew the numbers in your favor and tout them as the gospel. They've been doing this for years.

[Anton28]

Do any of our vendors offer a typhoon kit at a discount? ��

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I would stick with the stock airbox over the typhoon. Dyno vs real world. Stock airbox already pulls in cold air from the hood and seals against the hood. Typhoon does not completely seal so it will pull in hot air from the engine bay and likely cause more timing to be pulled. Stock airbox also will have a ram air effect which while minor is something the k&n will not.

I can get them at a discount but would not recommend them over stock airbox, heat shield, and potentially the K&N drop in.

Doug

[dewilmoth]

Does anyone make a non-oiled high flow filter for the Gen V? I’ve never been a fan of the oiled K&N filters with MAF sensors downstream.

[Bruce H.]

Does anyone make a non-oiled high flow filter for the Gen V? I’ve never been a fan of the oiled K&N filters with MAF sensors downstream.

Yes, Dodge's supplier makes one and every Gen V comes with one as stock...this according to SRT's engineers who know a thing or two. Agree on the use of oil coated filters, just wrong on so many levels.

The discussions and debate over K&N filters will never end. Many have used, liked and recommend them thinking they might be a power mod, and some are convinced they make more power based on the strength of the marketing and/or their own suspect testing procedures as noted previously. Butt dyno is proof enough for others.

I personally think that after this many years of debate that if there was a consistent, reliable, repeatable and proven advantage to using the K&N that we wouldn't still be questioning it and end users wouldn't still be trying to prove a difference one way or the other. I've never been even remotely tempted to try one because it's always sounded bogus and I've never seen a compelling argument to believe otherwise.

Some people enjoy just trying different stuff while others need to be convinced before replacing anything stock. I say whatever turns your crank, but at this point there isn't even a remote possibility of somebody discovering evidence that there's any power advantage to using a K&N, or that it's a good idea on our cars even if there was a possible slight power advantage under some conditions.

[dewilmoth]

Yes, Dodge's supplier makes one and every Gen V comes with one as stock...this according to SRT's engineers who know a thing or two. Agree on the use of oil coated filters, just wrong on so many levels.

The discussions and debate over K&N filters will never end. Many have used, liked and recommend them thinking they might be a power mod, and some are convinced they make more power based on the strength of the marketing and/or their own suspect testing procedures as noted previously. Butt dyno is proof enough for others.

I personally think that after this many years of debate that if there was a consistent, reliable, repeatable and proven advantage to using the K&N that we wouldn't still be questioning it and end users wouldn't still be trying to prove a difference one way or the other. I've never been even remotely tempted to try one because it's always sounded bogus and I've never seen a compelling argument to believe otherwise.

Some people enjoy just trying different stuff while others need to be convinced before replacing anything stock. I say whatever turns your crank, but at this point there isn't even a remote possibility of somebody discovering evidence that there's any power advantage to using a K&N, or that it's a good idea on our cars even if there was a possible slight power advantage under some conditions.

I don't disagree with any of that.

[element155]

I would stick with the stock airbox over the typhoon. Dyno vs real world. Stock airbox already pulls in cold air from the hood and seals against the hood. Typhoon does not completely seal so it will pull in hot air from the engine bay and likely cause more timing to be pulled. Stock airbox also will have a ram air effect which while minor is something the k&n will not.

I can get them at a discount but would not recommend them over stock airbox, heat shield, and potentially the K&N drop in.

Doug

Doug they talking filter panel only not airbox

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Doug they talking filter panel only not airbox

Sorry that was meant for the post above mine.