Rebuilding transmission: 2-piece countershaft?

[heath1225]

So I busted my trans. Input shaft and countershaft have to be replaced, as well as the front plate I cracked. I am seeing references to a 2-piece countershaft for early Vipers. My trans is from a '97 Viper. It's a Borg-Warner T-56. Do I need a 2-piece countershaft?

Also, anyone have a good used input shaft? Those things are pricey!

Thanks!

[99RT10]

It would probably be better to buy another good transmission. Either a Gen 2 or Gen 3. I have one for sale, but it sounds like yours would be good for parts only. Too costly to rebuild. Should have just sent it to Donato

[heath1225]

It would probably be better to buy another good transmission. Either a Gen 2 or Gen 3. I have one for sale, but it sounds like yours would be good for parts only. Too costly to rebuild. Should have just sent it to Donato

The rest of the trans looks good. You're right, it won't as cheap as I'd hope to rebuild it. I did buy another trans, installed it, and it had issues as well.

[ellowviper]

I guess at this point, I'd just have gone with a used TR6060 and called it a day. Lots of those out there now.

[99RT10]

Some one did an install write up for the 6060 into the older cars, forgot who. You will need to install a tone ring and drill a hole at the back of the trans for the speed sensor. Then get a Gen 4 trans output shaft and yoke.

[DonatoEng]

97 should be a one piece counter shaft T56. There are several versions of the T56 that was used in Vipers with upgrades alone the way. The later ones did not have a speed sensor as the speedo signal came from the ABS unit.

What issues are you having with the replacement one ? Do you have the tag number, that will identify the version.

John

[RyanLS.GEN2]

1997 SHOULD BE A 2 PART COUNTER SHAFT, you would have a extension that sildes out the back with 5/6 and a small reverse gear that is permanently attached. you would need the most common counter shaft 2.66,(LS camaro's) aftermarkets are out there for about $200, and input shafts about $275. the 1 piece counter shaft didnt show up until gen3 2003 model year.

I rebuild them at Scharfs, gen1&2 were 2part, gen3 are one piece


forgot to add, the easy way to tell them apart, the front plate/mid plate will have a hole with a 3/8 plug in it if it is a 2 piece, that plug is removed and a threaded shaft installed to check the the play in the 2 part counter shafts, gen3 2003+ have a dimple cast, but the hole is not drilled and tapped.

[99RT10]

97 should be a one piece counter shaft T56. There are several versions of the T56 that was used in Vipers with upgrades alone the way. The later ones did not have a speed sensor as the speedo signal came from the ABS unit.

What issues are you having with the replacement one ? Do you have the tag number, that will identify the version.

John

Gen 3 (2003-2006)should have a one piece, all other before are 2 piece

[Kari_Lindstrom]

One piece counter shaft
counter_shaft.jpg

Counter shaft extension
counter_shaft_extension.jpg

Both parts are from a 1998 Borg Warner T56 I'm upgrading just now.

[GTS Dean]

Your wife let you put transmission parts on the sofa? She's a keeper!

[RyanLS.GEN2]

those photos are of a 2 piece counter shaft........................ on a one piece the extension is built in

- - - Updated - - -

that is incorrect, that is a 2 piece photo'd a one piece has the extension built in.

[heath1225]

97 should be a one piece counter shaft T56. There are several versions of the T56 that was used in Vipers with upgrades alone the way. The later ones did not have a speed sensor as the speedo signal came from the ABS unit.

What issues are you having with the replacement one ? Do you have the tag number, that will identify the version.

John

So would a trans from a 2001 work in a 1997 as far as the speed sensor goes, due to the '97 not having ABS?

[heath1225]

1997 SHOULD BE A 2 PART COUNTER SHAFT, you would have a extension that sildes out the back with 5/6 and a small reverse gear that is permanently attached. you would need the most common counter shaft 2.66,(LS camaro's) aftermarkets are out there for about $200, and input shafts about $275. the 1 piece counter shaft didnt show up until gen3 2003 model year.

I rebuild them at Scharfs, gen1&2 were 2part, gen3 are one piece


forgot to add, the easy way to tell them apart, the front plate/mid plate will have a hole with a 3/8 plug in it if it is a 2 piece, that plug is removed and a threaded shaft installed to check the the play in the 2 part counter shafts, gen3 2003+ have a dimple cast, but the hole is not drilled and tapped.

What do you charge for a rebuild? Keep in mind I need a new countershaft and input shaft.

[DonatoEng]

1997 SHOULD BE A 2 PART COUNTER SHAFT, you would have a extension that sildes out the back with 5/6 and a small reverse gear that is permanently attached. you would need the most common counter shaft 2.66,(LS camaro's) aftermarkets are out there for about $200, and input shafts about $275. the 1 piece counter shaft didnt show up until gen3 2003 model year.

I rebuild them at Scharfs, gen1&2 were 2part, gen3 are one piece


forgot to add, the easy way to tell them apart, the front plate/mid plate will have a hole with a 3/8 plug in it if it is a 2 piece, that plug is removed and a threaded shaft installed to check the the play in the 2 part counter shafts, gen3 2003+ have a dimple cast, but the hole is not drilled and tapped.

Ryan, You are correct for the production units. That's an issue with being on the inside and working on future program changes.
I was working on one piece cluster T56 transmissions during that time that was used in a Viper program.

[RyanLS.GEN2]

Ryan, You are correct for the production units. That's an issue with being on the inside and working on future program changes.
I was working on one piece cluster T56 transmissions during that time that was used in a Viper program.

the basic run down for what came in real cars
1992-1996ish 2-pc counter shaft Aluminum 3-4 shift fork, shorter engagement teeth on 2nd, speed sensor
1997-2002 2 pc counter shaft, cast iron 3-4 fork, longer teeth on 2nd gear, speed sensor
2003 - early ones were 1 -pc counter shaft, and had speed sensor
2003 late- 2005 one piece counter shaft no speed sensor
2006 some had a input shaft with 2 stripes, the input, 2nd gear, and one piece counter shaft changed alloy, and change the gear pitch, these 3 part don't interchange with any other t56, other than fellow 2 stripes.

[RyanLS.GEN2]

What do you charge for a rebuild? Keep in mind I need a new countershaft and input shaft.

i only do inhouse rebuilds currently

[DonatoEng]

the basic run down for what came in real cars
1992-1996ish 2-pc counter shaft Aluminum 3-4 shift fork, shorter engagement teeth on 2nd, speed sensor
1997-2002 2 pc counter shaft, cast iron 3-4 fork, longer teeth on 2nd gear, speed sensor
2003 - early ones were 1 -pc counter shaft, and had speed sensor
2003 late- 2005 one piece counter shaft no speed sensor
2006 some had a input shaft with 2 stripes, the input, 2nd gear, and one piece counter shaft changed alloy, and change the gear pitch, these 3 part don't interchange with any other t56, other than fellow 2 stripes.

The T56 gear set with the 2 grooves on the input indicate 9310 steel which was used in the Comp Coupe and all manual SRT10 RAM trucks. This is the best gear set for the T56 in high torque applications.
The Comp Coupe and SRT10 Ram also had a larger OD slip yoke the same as the T6060.

[RyanLS.GEN2]

they had it in some 2006 cars also. every 2006 coupe we have gotten in (3-b/w, a r/w and a y/b) have come with them. 2004 trucks didnt seem to come with stripe gears, i dont see them until the 2005's

[ellowviper]

The T56 gear set with the 2 grooves on the input indicate 9310 steel which was used in the Comp Coupe and all manual SRT10 RAM trucks. This is the best gear set for the T56 in high torque applications.
The Comp Coupe and SRT10 Ram also had a larger OD slip yoke the same as the T6060.

Thus why I run the RAM -T56 in my blown GTS...and I believe the 9310 gear set has a straighter/stronger helix to the gears as well...nice whine to it!!