Viper TA vs Viper ACR E on Bahrain International Circuit

[GTSilver]

Track season just started in our part of the world and we don't have many viper owners that track their cars here. In a way to promote both the viper capabilities on track for any future owners and us as drivers for any sponsorships. Forum member Viperawi (Abdulaziz) and I have decided to compete for the fastest lap time on the Bahrain International Circuit GP track (BIC).

The competition will be during a time attack event (GulfRun) 8/9 of Feb 2018. GulfRun has been held for the past 13 years and the fastest drivers in our region compete in it with cars ranging from Mclaren P1's to Acura Integra's.

Here is the track layout as I'm sure most don't know the track :

Screen Shot 2017-12-03 at 7.05.37 AM.jpg

It's a state of the art facility, one of the first Formula 1 tracks in our region and holds many racing categories from F1, WEC, GT3 CUP etc. It has a lot of elevation changes with off camber corners etc. Its a stop and go circuit in regards to high speed straights then hard braking to slow turns with some high speed flowing corners. Its known to be a hard track for braking. The fastest recorded lap time for a street car is 2:07 with a Porsche 997 gt2 pushing 700rwhp with full slicks and suspension mods.

On board footage at the circuit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NqJZhzQOtU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut2BxpJNhLQ

My best lap time in my viper ta was 2:13 and Viperawi was 2:16 in his gen v GTS with hoosiers and arrow pcm. However Viperawi had sold his GTS and got himself a gen v ACR and haven't shared what lap times he had achieved on BIC.

Cars and drivers:

My viper ta has Viper exchange/arrow h/c package with BBG headers, a corsa exhaust, ACR CCB, forgeline 18'' wheels all around running michelin slicks.

Viperawi ACR as I'm writing this post is stock but don't know what mods he'll be adding for the competition.

Both drivers have had many track days in Bahrain and other circuits in our region and have logged many track days in Bahrain with similar driving capabilities. Cars will have some additional mods added before the competition in a way to make sure that we beat the other guy.

The competition will be covered mostly on Instagram on the following accounts:

Media: @allaboutviper

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbHQPJonVue/

https://www.instagram.com/allaboutviper/

Viperawi : @srt_ambassador

https://www.instagram.com/srt_ambassador/

Me: @y_alabdullah

https://www.instagram.com/y_alabdullah/

GulfRun (time attack competition) : @Gulfrun

https://www.instagram.com/gulfrun/

We both would love to know what are your thoughts on which car/driver will be setting the fastest lap time and also if you have any recommendations in regards to mods to increase our chances of winning.

Thanks

Yousif


p.s. wanted to add a poll for your votes on which is faster but don't know how to add it

[serpent]

Damn running CCBs on the TA!

[Bruce H.]

Soon as I saw that track configuration I thought your TA was going to need an MCS or VE suspension upgrade in order to put power down in a number of key places where the ACR will excel, although that's maybe already in the works as I seem to recall you discussing that topic not long ago.

[GTSilver]

Damn running CCBs on the TA!

Yes they're great and the reason I upgraded was that I found them for a really good price plus its the stopped the rear end wiggle under braking from high speeds. However thinking of changing the rotors to giro disc.

Soon as I saw that track configuration I thought your TA was going to need an MCS or VE suspension upgrade in order to put power down in a number of key places where the ACR will excel, although that's maybe already in the works as I seem to recall you discussing that topic not long ago.

Yes it sure needs better shocks and spring rates to put the power down especially with me running slicks as the body roll have increased due to the grip of the slicks. Honestly still undecided which route i'm going with. I would love the ohlins as I've tried them in multiple cars but haven't got a single review or anyone that ran them on the viper, searched this and other forums and also the FB page. Will be doing spherical bearings and other things and will have to make a decision regarding which shocks I'll go with if I upgrade them for this season. Or replace the CCB with giro disc rotors as I miss the braking modulation that the CCB just doesn't have and running OEM pads with CCB isn't great on track as it doesn't give the braking performance that you want. Here is a lap last season and you can see very early braking and also sometimes missing the apex and going in deep in the corner due to brakes aren't braking as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Av96yj8n0

[Bruce H.]

Yes it sure needs better shocks and spring rates to put the power down especially with me running slicks as the body roll have increased due to the grip of the slicks. Honestly still undecided which route i'm going with. I would love the ohlins as I've tried them in multiple cars but haven't got a single review or anyone that ran them on the viper, searched this and other forums and also the FB page. Will be doing spherical bearings and other things and will have to make a decision regarding which shocks I'll go with if I upgrade them for this season.

If you're looking for forum user reviews I'm sure you've probably read most or all of the comments I have about the handling improvements of both MCS and Tractive from TA owners. Not Ohlin's that you're inclined to have confidence in, but no shortage of credible feedback from pro and near pro level TA drivers who likely have experience with multiple platforms and dampers.

I was very impressed with Mike Levita's TA with the DSC/Tractive system on track compared to my stock TA, and pretty much a back to back comparison with an expertly driven ACR-E at a track day at NOLA. I haven't experienced the MCS system but would have 100% confidence in Mark J's ability to spec spring rates and dampers for any tracked application. I'm sure both vendors would be able to put you in contact with TA owners with similarly modded setups and driver skill levels.

Good luck!

[LmeaViper]

If you're looking for forum user reviews I'm sure you've probably read most or all of the comments I have about the handling improvements of both MCS and Tractive from TA owners. Not Ohlin's that you're inclined to have confidence in, but no shortage of credible feedback from pro and near pro level TA drivers who likely have experience with multiple platforms and dampers.

I was very impressed with Mike Levita's TA with the DSC/Tractive system on track compared to my stock TA, and pretty much a back to back comparison with an expertly driven ACR-E at a track day at NOLA. I haven't experienced the MCS system but would have 100% confidence in Mark J's ability to spec spring rates and dampers for any tracked application. I'm sure both vendors would be able to put you in contact with TA owners with similarly modded setups and driver skill levels.

Good luck!

I have the VE DSC and they are very good. PLUS, it makes the ride in street way more acceptable when the roads get rough.
Go to youtube and type in "bonesaw test track day" if you want to see some videos of the adaptive in action.

[Racingbrake]

Yes they're great and the reason I upgraded was that I found them for a really good price plus its the stopped the rear end wiggle under braking from high speeds. However thinking of changing the rotors to giro disc.

For those TA track racers who had the rear brake wiggling issue under heavy braking (w/o having to upgrade to CCB)

Balanced rear brake kit for TA:
Review:
https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...Kit-Evaluation

You will need RB sintered (full metallic) pads for an ultimate braking performance (& durability) that only the CCB brake system can provide.

Review
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post14334913

[stradman]

Yes they're great and the reason I upgraded was that I found them for a really good price plus its the stopped the rear end wiggle under braking from high speeds. However thinking of changing the rotors to giro disc.



Yes it sure needs better shocks and spring rates to put the power down especially with me running slicks as the body roll have increased due to the grip of the slicks. Honestly still undecided which route i'm going with. I would love the ohlins as I've tried them in multiple cars but haven't got a single review or anyone that ran them on the viper, searched this and other forums and also the FB page. Will be doing spherical bearings and other things and will have to make a decision regarding which shocks I'll go with if I upgrade them for this season. Or replace the CCB with giro disc rotors as I miss the braking modulation that the CCB just doesn't have and running OEM pads with CCB isn't great on track as it doesn't give the braking performance that you want. Here is a lap last season and you can see very early braking and also sometimes missing the apex and going in deep in the corner due to brakes aren't braking as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Av96yj8n0

Nice driving! Lovely track . Would love to be able to split trackseason and be in your part of the world from December to March, but unfortunately its quite a distance away! Anyway as its winter here, opportunity to send car to US to have my upgrades done....

[GTSilver]

Nice driving! Lovely track . Would love to be able to split trackseason and be in your part of the world from December to March, but unfortunately its quite a distance away! Anyway as its winter here, opportunity to send car to US to have my upgrades done....

Thanks although still no where close to its limits, hopefully the suspension mods will help with that. We do have some nice tracks but nothing close to what Europe has to offer, and I'll be doing the same when I upgrade to a 9.0l will be sending it April/May and probably get a couple of track days in the US before shipping it back.

[Terminator02]

Thanks although still no where close to its limits, hopefully the suspension mods will help with that. We do have some nice tracks but nothing close to what Europe has to offer, and I'll be doing the same when I upgrade to a 9.0l will be sending it April/May and probably get a couple of track days in the US before shipping it back.

Think it's awesome you are fine tuning the HC for the track. I would think wheels, suspension and nth carbon clutch would be needed. Have you considered going the nth route GTSilver? I have heard the HC cars rip through stocck clutch from slicks. Gilles I think went through 1 or 2 and a few others. The Carbon Clutch from Nth would be a good upgrade imo.

[q8blueviper]

Good luck guys , I’m confident that both of you gonna do will this season and i hope you shredded that record !

[GTSilver]

Good luck guys , I’m confident that both of you gonna do will this season and i hope you shredded that record !

Thanks Mahdi !

[viperguy69]

Man I miss my Bahrain days... cheapest track day I every purchased with a hug garage to hold all your parts, fans/friends and with some amazing care provided by the BIC crew on cleaning the track and managing the this facility so pristine.

If only I could take my current Viper back there again.... but make sure you put a clear bra on the front end, headlights, and windshield. The dust particles in the air sandblasted my whole front end and put about 200 small divots in my windshield!

20900601_10207668655394984_7760949106836192305_o.jpg

Could not find my BIC track days photos.... where did I stash that disk... hmmm...

[OneofOneViper]

Very cool. I don't have any advice but I would love to read the update later!

[GTSilver]

Man I miss my Bahrain days... cheapest track day I every purchased with a hug garage to hold all your parts, fans/friends and with some amazing care provided by the BIC crew on cleaning the track and managing the this facility so pristine.

If only I could take my current Viper back there again.... but make sure you put a clear bra on the front end, headlights, and windshield. The dust particles in the air sandblasted my whole front end and put about 200 small divots in my windshield!

20900601_10207668655394984_7760949106836192305_o.jpg

Could not find my BIC track days photos.... where did I stash that disk... hmmm...

Yes the facility is really great and very cheap to track days in other parts of the world plus using the F1 garages. The sand is a bit of an issue but I already have covered the entire car in clear bra.

If you're looking for forum user reviews I'm sure you've probably read most or all of the comments I have about the handling improvements of both MCS and Tractive from TA owners. Not Ohlin's that you're inclined to have confidence in, but no shortage of credible feedback from pro and near pro level TA drivers who likely have experience with multiple platforms and dampers.

I was very impressed with Mike Levita's TA with the DSC/Tractive system on track compared to my stock TA, and pretty much a back to back comparison with an expertly driven ACR-E at a track day at NOLA. I haven't experienced the MCS system but would have 100% confidence in Mark J's ability to spec spring rates and dampers for any tracked application. I'm sure both vendors would be able to put you in contact with TA owners with similarly modded setups and driver skill levels.

Good luck!

I've probably read them a couple of time honestly but still haven't made a decision will have talk to both vendors again get them sooner and try them out at least once before the time attack competition. I'm converting to spherical bearings as well to compliment the suspension and give more feedback on track.

Very cool. I don't have any advice but I would love to read the update later!

Thanks Brain, will update this thread along the way.

[Bruce H.]

I've probably read them a couple of time honestly but still haven't made a decision will have talk to both vendors again get them sooner and try them out at least once before the time attack competition. I'm converting to spherical bearings as well to compliment the suspension and give more feedback on track.

Either damper will make a huge difference in performance. I think SRT nailed so much but the dampers truly become junk the moment you engage Race mode. They are the single largest limiting factor to performance regardless of spring rate or tire. I'm refraining from modding mine for now but they'll be gone the moment I do.

Looking forward to following your continuing build and feedback!

[ACR08]

Marhaban Yousif and Abdulaziz,

Oh man, I really Love Bahrain. I’ve never driven the F1 circuit, but did put down a number of laps on the kart circuit. I’m hoping to make it back there one day to at least see an F1 race. I’d really love to drive my own car there one day. Glad to see you two are there representing American muscle. Hopefully, you’ll get more Viper owners to come out and drive.

Viper guy, that’s a great pic of your Viper in front of the Grand Mosque. I’ve been there, but my Nissan Altima rental didn’t compare to your ride.

Masalamah,

Rhett

[GTSilver]

Either damper will make a huge difference in performance. I think SRT nailed so much but the dampers truly become junk the moment you engage Race mode. They are the single largest limiting factor to performance regardless of spring rate or tire. I'm refraining from modding mine for now but they'll be gone the moment I do.

Looking forward to following your continuing build and feedback!

True either of them will make a huge difference however its a big amount to spend just want to be certain which one I'll benefit more from. Control arms and knuckles will be shipped today to Jeff Stout at Complete performance in Ohio to do the spherical conversion and other parts as well while I finalize which shocks to go to.

I have the VE DSC and they are very good. PLUS, it makes the ride in street way more acceptable when the roads get rough.
Go to youtube and type in "bonesaw test track day" if you want to see some videos of the adaptive in action.

Nice driving and the car seems very planted were all videos on pirelli corsa tires ?

Marhaban Yousif and Abdulaziz,

Oh man, I really Love Bahrain. I’ve never driven the F1 circuit, but did put down a number of laps on the kart circuit. I’m hoping to make it back there one day to at least see an F1 race. I’d really love to drive my own car there one day. Glad to see you two are there representing American muscle. Hopefully, you’ll get more Viper owners to come out and drive.

Viper guy, that’s a great pic of your Viper in front of the Grand Mosque. I’ve been there, but my Nissan Altima rental didn’t compare to your ride.

Masalamah,

Rhett

Ahlan I guess Rhett, yeah Bahrain is really nice and you should really try out the F1 circuit if you ever came back. The kart circuit is really phenomenal and one of the best karting circuits out there. Hopefully with this competition we can sway viper owners here from mostly street racing to road course as driving a viper on track is a pure bliss.

Yousif

[LmeaViper]

Nice driving and the car seems very planted were all videos on pirelli corsa tires ?



Yousif[/QUOTE]

Thks. Yup the stock corsas.

[Arizona Vipers]

Track season just started in our part of the world and we don't have many viper owners that track their cars here. In a way to promote both the viper capabilities on track for any future owners and us as drivers for any sponsorships. Forum member Viperawi (Abdulaziz) and I have decided to compete for the fastest lap time on the Bahrain International Circuit GP track (BIC).

The competition will be during a time attack event (GulfRun) 8/9 of Feb 2018. GulfRun has been held for the past 13 years and the fastest drivers in our region compete in it with cars ranging from Mclaren P1's to Acura Integra's.

Here is the track layout as I'm sure most don't know the track :

Screen Shot 2017-12-03 at 7.05.37 AM.jpg

It's a state of the art facility, one of the first Formula 1 tracks in our region and holds many racing categories from F1, WEC, GT3 CUP etc. It has a lot of elevation changes with off camber corners etc. Its a stop and go circuit in regards to high speed straights then hard braking to slow turns with some high speed flowing corners. Its known to be a hard track for braking. The fastest recorded lap time for a street car is 2:07 with a Porsche 997 gt2 pushing 700rwhp with full slicks and suspension mods.

On board footage at the circuit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NqJZhzQOtU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut2BxpJNhLQ

My best lap time in my viper ta was 2:13 and Viperawi was 2:16 in his gen v GTS with hoosiers and arrow pcm. However Viperawi had sold his GTS and got himself a gen v ACR and haven't shared what lap times he had achieved on BIC.

Cars and drivers:

My viper ta has Viper exchange/arrow h/c package with BBG headers, a corsa exhaust, ACR CCB, forgeline 18'' wheels all around running michelin slicks.

Viperawi ACR as I'm writing this post is stock but don't know what mods he'll be adding for the competition.

Both drivers have had many track days in Bahrain and other circuits in our region and have logged many track days in Bahrain with similar driving capabilities. Cars will have some additional mods added before the competition in a way to make sure that we beat the other guy.

The competition will be covered mostly on Instagram on the following accounts:

Media: @allaboutviper

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbHQPJonVue/

https://www.instagram.com/allaboutviper/

Viperawi : @srt_ambassador

https://www.instagram.com/srt_ambassador/

Me: @y_alabdullah

https://www.instagram.com/y_alabdullah/

GulfRun (time attack competition) : @Gulfrun

https://www.instagram.com/gulfrun/

We both would love to know what are your thoughts on which car/driver will be setting the fastest lap time and also if you have any recommendations in regards to mods to increase our chances of winning.

Thanks

Yousif


p.s. wanted to add a poll for your votes on which is faster but don't know how to add it

What size and what compound Michelin slicks are you running?

[LmeaViper]

your car pulls hard.

[Bruce H.]

Excited to follow your progress!

[GTSilver]

A quick update regarding the competition and what is added on my car, I wish I can share what Abdulaziz is doing with his ACR but he isn't sharing for the time being lol. Back to my car, control arms, sway bar adjustable end links and a couple of other things have already been shipped from Jeff Stout and should be here in the next week or two. I'll get some pictures before and after installation. Will be trying out new brake pads other than OEM on CCB to give them one more shot this season also I'm way past my budget although I would have loved to switch them to Girodisc rotors and pads. Tires have been ordered and should arrive mid/late Jan just in time for to install them and do alignment and corner balance the car before heading to the competition which is on the 8th and 9th of Feb. Still looking for suggestions within budget to help with the competition as I'm still unsure which way the competition result will be as Abdulaziz is a fast driver and the ACR isn't any normal car.

[stradman]

What sort of time do standard 991 GT3R's do around this circuit btw? I can then tell you what sort of time an ACR should do around there. But a 2:13 that you do is fairly solid and would expect the ACR to match this at least. High powered circuit with lots of DF advantage.

[GTSilver]

What sort of time do standard 991 GT3R's do around this circuit btw? I can then tell you what sort of time an ACR should do around there. But a 2:13 that you do is fairly solid and would expect the ACR to match this at least. High powered circuit with lots of DF advantage.

I cant remember what 991 GT3RS's are doing on track but the fastest lap on track is 2:07 set by a 997 gt2 that isn't for sure stock. I know a 2:13 would be a walk in the park for the ACR and in my lap there's a lot of areas to improve on. Honestly I don't know which is going to be faster on track. How's the viper ACR acceleration with the high downforce in 4th and 5th gear ? As 5th gear in my TA is like hitting a wall and there are 4 straights in the track layout two of them till the end of 4th and the other two you have to shift into 5th.