Gen 5 Result at Mecum

[Policy Limits]

Capitalism is criminal. .....lmfbooo. someone voted for Bernie and can drive stick shift..?!

[Scott_in_fl]

Obviously a dealer has to make money turning a used car over, but that's not only insulting it's borderline criminal. Are we now trying to flip Vipers for a 40K profit while offering shit money on trade-ins? That's pretty pathetic even by Tomball standards.

Tomball has periodically attempted to corner the market to drive up pricing. Recall the stockpile of GTS-R's and then the elevated pricing (coinciding with the 'Ring run). But, that seems to be their business model.

They are known as "The Viper Exchange" after all. If you want a nice early Gen I, they have 3... at lofty prices, but all look like terrific cars.

They are now indicating that they are on the hunt for ACR-E's and pretty soon, if you want a nice one, they will be the place to go. And why not? They are one of the largest Viper dealers, know a good car when they see it, can get a car into selling condition with some of the best Viper techs around, and as a result most people would feel safer about buying a Viper from a dealer like that than from some Joe on eBay.

So, they are constantly positioning to set the market and seem to be doing a fair job of it. If they can shake the weak hands and buy a car for $125k and then turn around and sell it for $175k, they are going to do it because they believe the market can bear it. Trust me, they are not the only car dealer using that approach.

All of that said, and while I felt that VE could have been more forthcoming about hoarding the GTS-R's in anticipation of running the 'Ring, the truth of the matter is that like Gerry Wood, the overall impact of their involvement in the Viper world is value added for all of us. If VE can keep moving prices higher, then more power to them.

Believe it or not, the rising prices only make the car more appealing to wealthier clientele that might also be Fcar, Lcar and Mcar owners. A $200k limited production Viper is much more likely to become an item of desire for them than a $90k limited production Viper. And they need other people to know that it cost $200k. Thus, as soon as those folks buy in and start showing it off as another of their prized collection, then the floodgates can begin to open.

Now, as relating to Josh's car, imo now is not the time to sell it. For one, more cars on the market pulls pricing down. Two, the market is likely not yet where he needs it to be to recover his full investment. It sounds like he needs $200k+ to break even, and the car is probably a $180k sell today because we're still early in the game from when production ceased in August.

Really nice 1-of-1's and SE cars seem to be grouping around the $175k area, which seems reasonable right now. Josh's car is certainly more valuable because it is more unique (in a good way) and a big MSRP car, but how much more? If only $5k-$10k more, then why not hold it another year and give it some time to move closer to -- or through -- the $200k level? There is no rush to sell, and a replacement is unnecessary since there is no time to enjoy it.

That said, if the car does need to be sold for some undisclosed reason, then starting with a low opening bid and hoping that you can keep bidders' attention long enough to push the price to where you want it typically has not worked in my experience as well as setting a higher price and working down. Do what VE and all the large dealers do -- set it high and be patient. Again, if it needs to sell in the next few months, then I would suggest listing it on eBay at $189k and give it some time to run. We're in the winter months, so a little patience will be required. But it is an amazing car and should eventually fetch a number that you can live with either way.

[ACRSNK]

Completely agree.

RE: Viper exchange - they aren’t exactly a dealer I respect considering I offered the car to them a couple months back and I think they offered me 125k, which was an insult. Ironic that they now have a car with a far lesser spec, double my mileage and not half as nice at a huge price.

I’m not fussed if it sells or not. It’s undercover in the garage, it’s an amazing car but I simply don’t have time for much driving at the moment, let alone getting to a track. My reserve is high enough but I’ll certainly be taking a loss even if the reserve is hit - the car plus mods and tax stands me in at > $200k.

Had I not purchased a GTS-R and did a 1of1, I would have very likely ordered this exact car down to the red interior. You car is one of the truly 1of1's as it is super unique with that red interior that most would not have popped for. An expensive build? YES. Truly unique? YES. Bad Ass? YES. Should you take a loss on it? NO! I would hold tight. You definitely have one of the nicer ones produced. I'm sure there are plenty looking for what you have. If you decide you want to unload for $125K that youy were offered from VE, I will give you more.

[LABrit]

So, they are constantly positioning to set the market and seem to be doing a fair job of it. If they can shake the weak hands and buy a car for $125k and then turn around and sell it for $175k, they are going to do it because they believe the market can bear it. Trust me, they are not the only car dealer using that approach.

Agreed. I sent back an email saying thanks for the morning laugh.

Now, as relating to Josh's car, imo now is not the time to sell it. For one, more cars on the market pulls pricing down. Two, the market is likely not yet where he needs it to be to recover his full investment. It sounds like he needs $200k+ to break even, and the car is probably a $180k sell today because we're still early in the game from when production ceased in August.

Have to be careful with these type of comments - the car was certainly NOT bought for an investment. It was spec'd and ordered because i refused to pay the then current overs prices on 991 GT3 RS's (i'm a Porsche guy through and through) and the way i looked at it was that when the overs were around 75-100k back in December 2015 the Viper even at my huge MSRP was the deal of the century. It is still phenomenal bang for your buck - nothing comes close for track work at that price point, however the car and really, no cars should be purchased for an investment. They are a hobby and should be used as frequently as possible unless you're one of these mega wealthy people that collect cars - people with 50 + cars etc. Anyone that has owned any older classic / supercar over the last 4 years would have at least 30% more value on their car today than when they purchased them. That to me is a bonus and i was fortunate enough to make a lot of money on various cars i have parted with, which is always nice, however i have stated this many times - if you make money on a car - UNBELIVEABLE, If you don't lose money - you're fortunate; be grateful and if you lose money, so be it. That's the way it's been for many cycles, it simply isn't for this time around (and IMO wont last much longer).

Really nice 1-of-1's and SE cars seem to be grouping around the $175k area, which seems reasonable right now. Josh's car is certainly more valuable because it is more unique (in a good way) and a big MSRP car, but how much more? If only $5k-$10k more, then why not hold it another year and give it some time to move closer to -- or through -- the $200k level? There is no rush to sell, and a replacement is unnecessary since there is no time to enjoy it.

I think the car is worth $175-185 to the right buyer and that's the key phrase - to the right buyer. I am not bothered if it sells or not, it gets minimal use and i enjoy seeing it in the garage. I have numerous cars to use and the Viper is not the first choice if i want to go for a cruise or a coffee, it's wasted not being used on track but i should be able to get around to tracking in 12-18 months time. I am not hunting for $200k and the extra money over my reserve would really make little odds to me other than the ability to say i got out flat, which i am not too bothered about (obviously i don't want to take a hit larger than my psychological x).

That said, if the car does need to be sold for some undisclosed reason, then starting with a low opening bid and hoping that you can keep bidders' attention long enough to push the price to where you want it typically has not worked in my experience as well as setting a higher price and working down. Do what VE and all the large dealers do -- set it high and be patient. Again, if it needs to sell in the next few months, then I would suggest listing it on eBay at $189k and give it some time to run. We're in the winter months, so a little patience will be required. But it is an amazing car and should eventually fetch a number that you can live with either way.

As mentioned not fussed - i have my reserve and if it doesn't hit that, i will happily keep the car for when i have more time in the future.

Had I not purchased a GTS-R and did a 1of1, I would have very likely ordered this exact car down to the red interior. You car is one of the truly 1of1's as it is super unique with that red interior that most would not have popped for. An expensive build? YES. Truly unique? YES. Bad Ass? YES. Should you take a loss on it? NO! I would hold tight. You definitely have one of the nicer ones produced. I'm sure there are plenty looking for what you have. If you decide you want to unload for $125K that youy were offered from VE, I will give you more.

Thanks for the kind words. I have turned down many offers >150k in the last 6 months and will continue to do so. See my points above regarding taking a loss.

[Racingswh]

Agreed. I sent back an email saying thanks for the morning laugh.



Have to be careful with these type of comments - the car was certainly NOT bought for an investment. It was spec'd and ordered because i refused to pay the then current overs prices on 991 GT3 RS's (i'm a Porsche guy through and through) and the way i looked at it was that when the overs were around 75-100k back in December 2015 the Viper even at my huge MSRP was the deal of the century. It is still phenomenal bang for your buck - nothing comes close for track work at that price point, however the car and really, no cars should be purchased for an investment. They are a hobby and should be used as frequently as possible unless you're one of these mega wealthy people that collect cars - people with 50 + cars etc. Anyone that has owned any older classic / supercar over the last 4 years would have at least 30% more value on their car today than when they purchased them. That to me is a bonus and i was fortunate enough to make a lot of money on various cars i have parted with, which is always nice, however i have stated this many times - if you make money on a car - UNBELIVEABLE, If you don't lose money - you're fortunate; be grateful and if you lose money, so be it. That's the way it's been for many cycles, it simply isn't for this time around (and IMO wont last much longer).



I think the car is worth $175-185 to the right buyer and that's the key phrase - to the right buyer. I am not bothered if it sells or not, it gets minimal use and i enjoy seeing it in the garage. I have numerous cars to use and the Viper is not the first choice if i want to go for a cruise or a coffee, it's wasted not being used on track but i should be able to get around to tracking in 12-18 months time. I am not hunting for $200k and the extra money over my reserve would really make little odds to me other than the ability to say i got out flat, which i am not too bothered about (obviously i don't want to take a hit larger than my psychological x).



As mentioned not fussed - i have my reserve and if it doesn't hit that, i will happily keep the car for when i have more time in the future.



Thanks for the kind words. I have turned down many offers >150k in the last 6 months and will continue to do so. See my points above regarding taking a loss.

Thoughtful post. Just love and could not agree more with your perspective.

Your car will be a wonderful addition to a collection for someone or possibly their very first Viper.

GLWS

[Policy Limits]

Labrit is up to $145,100.00!! *reserve not met*

[Policy Limits]

Now it's a $155,100.00 high bid. Not bad for a 2016 model.

[OneofOneViper]

LaBrit has been trying to sell his car since almost the week he got it it seems. The price has always been high, and he's not going to give it away now either. I would imagine the reserve is probably around $170k or more. Nothing wrong with that, but just like any good customer ACR-E--no one is going to give it away.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Capitalism is criminal. .....lmfbooo. someone voted for Bernie and can drive stick shift..?!

Lmao!!!! My thoughts exactly

[LABrit]

LaBrit has been trying to sell his car since almost the week he got it it seems. The price has always been high, and he's not going to give it away now either. I would imagine the reserve is probably around $170k or more. Nothing wrong with that, but just like any good customer ACR-E--no one is going to give it away.

This is the first time it’s been advertised other than mentioned on here.

[OneofOneViper]

This is the first time it’s been advertised other than mentioned on here.

Splitting hairs. Not sure why it matters anyways. Actively selling and passively selling are the same thing. It means your car is on the market and has been for quite some time--just not publicly advertised in a "for sale" format outside of the forums. Don't get me wrong, I hope you get a lot for your car. It's a great car and probably one of the highest MSRP's of any viper out there so it'll be interesting to see what people are willing to pay for it since it likely won't fetch a premium (I'm just guessing here) like other ACRE customs just because there are a lot of added options. One in particular most people would never really pay for for--the laguna red leather interior. Most people don't probably know that that option is a crazy cost because of the way the computer programs were set up where you selected to pay $8500 (instead of $6000) for GTS interior which caused the ceramic brakes to be an additional $8500 option. So in reality (and I know you already know this), the cost to get the red interior was an $11,000 upgrade option. I'm just willing to bet that no one else is willing to pay that cost.

Crazy cool car though, and honestly wish I owned it. Interested to see what the market is willing to pay for it, but I'm willing to also bet it's less than what you want to get for it since it's so highly optioned with full paint protection, etc... I too have full paint protection and I know how expensive it is, but most people aren't willing to fork over the money for that added protection. Most do partial protection so my guess is that wouldn't bring a good return either.

Guess we can wait and see now that it's "officially" listed for sale.

[Policy Limits]

Who's bidding on this thing....catwood??

[Scott_in_fl]

Splitting hairs. Not sure why it matters anyways. Actively selling and passively selling are the same thing. It means your car is on the market and has been for quite some time--just not publicly advertised in a "for sale" format outside of the forums. Don't get me wrong, I hope you get a lot for your car. It's a great car and probably one of the highest MSRP's of any viper out there so it'll be interesting to see what people are willing to pay for it since it likely won't fetch a premium (I'm just guessing here) like other ACRE customs just because there are a lot of added options. One in particular most people would never really pay for for--the laguna red leather interior. Most people don't probably know that that option is a crazy cost because of the way the computer programs were set up where you selected to pay $8500 (instead of $6000) for GTS interior which caused the ceramic brakes to be an additional $8500 option. So in reality (and I know you already know this), the cost to get the red interior was an $11,000 upgrade option. I'm just willing to bet that no one else is willing to pay that cost.

Crazy cool car though, and honestly wish I owned it. Interested to see what the market is willing to pay for it, but I'm willing to also bet it's less than what you want to get for it since it's so highly optioned with full paint protection, etc... I too have full paint protection and I know how expensive it is, but most people aren't willing to fork over the money for that added protection. Most do partial protection so my guess is that wouldn't bring a good return either.

Guess we can wait and see now that it's "officially" listed for sale.

I also don't think that running it for a week is indicative of what the car can bring. The car is worth at least $180k in today's market but, like anything at this price point, it could take a bit of time to find a discriminating enough buyer that is looking for these colors/options, adds, etc.

If you're selling real estate, you should give yourself a few months to find your buyer. If you're selling a $200k car, I think something similar or just less than that would be appropriate.

[ViperDC]

The car is worth at least $180k in today's market

According to you? Or

[ViperJon]

Well the eBay clientele has apparently spoken, which is why these cars listed for 180K+ and up are a joke.

[Policy Limits]

A buck and a half bid isn't bad on a depreciating asset that is two model years old (if they made MY18) an investment hell no, reelect trump instead if you want to continue to see your retirement plan grow....

[AZTVR]

Well the eBay clientele has apparently spoken, which is why these cars listed for 180K+ and up are a joke.

How many cars on eBay in the over $150,000 range actually sell to a real buyer through the high bid of this blind auction ?

In my view, eBay auctions in this price range are merely advertisements.

I realize that to some, seven days is a long time to catch the eye of the desired buyer; but, I predict it will take longer than that. I'm betting that the seller has the patience.

[ViperDC]

How many cars on eBay in the over $150,000 range actually sell to a real buyer through the high bid of this blind auction ?

In my view, eBay auctions in this price range are merely advertisements.

youre right, the numbers on Ebay are usually way high from what the actual market is

[ACRSNK]

youre right, the numbers on Ebay are usually way high from what the actual market is

Not quite sure that's what he was trying to convey. I think some of the numbers on certain cars are actually way under market. I have seen quite a few cars that didn't sell that were on there with no reserve. Seems like AZTVR is correct in that some of the pricier cars get thrown on there and become an advertisement for the car. Some do this knowingly, and others do not, but nevertheless, that's what it ends up being.

[ViperDC]

Not quite sure that's what he was trying to convey. I think some of the numbers on certain cars are actually way under market. I have seen quite a few cars that didn't sell that were on there with no reserve. Seems like AZTVR is correct in that some of the pricier cars get thrown on there and become an advertisement for the car. Some do this knowingly, and others do not, but nevertheless, that's what it ends up being.

Sorry, but hell no. Nearly every Viper listed on Ebay is overpriced, which is why you see them listed again and again, sitting for months if you follow the market as closely as I do. You've got RT10s on there for low 40s lol. Get real. Every dip with a red GTS trying to get $45k. Ebay is crazy overpriced when you look at the listings. And sometimes when something "sells" the buyer never shows. Ask me how I know. It's happened to me more than once. Ebay is full of dealers and speculators overpricing cars and broke dick bargain hunters that don't have any money. Rarely any middle ground. Just my 2 cents

[Coloviper]

If they sell, it was the right price. Do I think they are way overpriced on there today? Yah but then again I had a chance in 2005 to buy a Ford GT brand new with all 4 options at $25k under sticker right from Ford. That one I kick myself in the ass repeatedly ever since! Maybe it is the same case with these ACR-Es but something tells me no.