Opinions or recommendations for a set of Street Track tires

[IHOP]

I'm thinking for now until and can do a separate set of dedicated track wheels and tires of doing a tire that can be used for both. I've read past threads and posts but with a few newer options I wanted to hear your guy's experience and recommendations.

I haven't seen much feedback on the Toyo R888R's mostly the R888's I know they make a lot of noise for some but does that include the R888R's also? After reading reviews I'm not thinking Corsa's, anyone run Michelin Cup tires for street/track? What type of mileage and/or how many track days do you guys get out of a set? Thank you guys for your suggestions

Eventually I would like a set of Hoosier's and dedicated track wheels. I've seen them on the track with a great driver and they rock.

[SRT_BluByU]

Good question.. subscribed.

[TA Two Oh]

OK. I'll dip my toe into the shark infested waters. As you likely already know, you'll get plenty of (sometimes conflicting) information. For context, here's my background. I have more than 25 years of track driving experience. I no longer put on many track miles... 5 or so events per year and only a session or two at each event. In the past, I participated in 20-30 track events per year. I'm definitely one of those "the older I get, the faster I used to be" guys. But more importantly as far as answering your question is concerned, I've never raced. !00% of my track miles were spent in cars with license plates, that I drove to and from the track. I've been lucky to have driven everything from Minivans to stretch Limo's to virtually every recent model of Ferrari and Lamborghini at speed on racetracks. My personal "track cars" -quotes used because every single one has also been street driven a fair bit- have included multiple Miatas, Porsches, Mustangs, Corvettes and the three Vipers in my signature among many others.

As you might imagine, I've driven on virtually every brand of tire available. And like you and most drivers who's cars wear multiple hats, and who's wallet appreciates as little exhaustion as possible, I'm always looking for that sweet spot combo of track grip, long life, sharp handling, reasonable quietness/streetablilty and low cost.

Let me start by saying that in my view, every car is fun to drive on a racetrack, and that low lap times are not always required to have fun. But you've got a Viper so you've already got the fun part really well covered! Not every tire is fun on a racetrack, however, with the possible exception of some off-brands that no one has heard of, every tire available in Viper sizes will do a reasonable job on a racetrack. So I doubt that you even have the option of making a big mistake with respect to tire selection.

That said, there's still a range of grip levels, wear resistance and "fall-apart-at-the-limit"ness available to you. On the track, I'm far less interested in ultimate grip than I am in a tire that exhibits predictable behavior as its limits are approached/reached. I'm faster running on tires that inspire confidence than on tires that have me wondering when my car is about to leap out of my hands, even if the latter tire has a slightly higher level of ultimate grip. Plus, i'm obviously enjoying myself much more when I know that if something doesn't go exactly according to plan, such as unexpected understeeer or oversteer I'll be able to deal with it because the tire exhibits predictable behavior.

I have run many sets of R888's over the years on many different cars... front engine, rear-mid engine, rear engine. They were fast, predictable and I always thought that they wore reasonably well for an R compound tire. They seemed to like a fair bit of camber. With my setups -lots of negative camber- street driving wore the insides down and track driving wore the outsides down. A nice tag team effort! I have not driven on the new R888R's but I would be very surprised if they're worse than the old model. I drove plenty of brisk wet laps in them with no issues.

The stock tires on my older Vipers (Michelin Pilots?) were fine. More of a street biased tire, and the cars themselves were definitely more "exciting" to drive... it was important to be on full alert on the track! To be fair, I didn't put a lot of track miles on either car and they were both bone stock, with factory alignments. And the 2001 was a lot more forgiving than the '94 on the track.

I currently run Michelin Pilot Super Sports on another car that sees some track use. They're very predictable, breakaway is smooth and easy to control. Considering the grip that they deliver, they really wear like iron. But for track use, I'd recommend more negative camber than most stock vehicles come with. I've recently blistered the outside edge on mine thanks to aggressive driving and 0 degrees of camber. I find them to be a bit on the noisy side on the highway if that matters.

If you do the majority of your driving on the street, with 4-5 track events per year, the Pirelli P-Zero could be a great choice. Relatively long life, great grip, low noise, sharp reflexes, predictable behavior at the limit. There's a reason that they're standard equipment on so many performance cars. Pricing is pretty reasonable too.

Lastly, the tires that are on my current Viper; Pirelli P-Zero Corsas. If you 'll be tracking more than 4-5 events per year and/or track performance carries more weight with you than, say, long life on the street, then this tire is a great all-around choice in my opinion. They're not super sticky for an R-Comp... kind of an R-Comp Light if there is such a thing. Compared to Cup 2's or Trofeo's they're definitely a notch down in grip. But I find them to be super duper predictable and confidence inspiring. The track grip level is about as high as I can stand these days; pretty darn high. (Randy Pobst set a 1:33 at Laguna on them which is wicked fast) They're quiet. And I'm very happy with the wear. I have a fresh set ready to go when these are done. (my third set in a row) I drive my car a fair bit on the street, and it's already been on some long trips. I've driven those tires in literally every condition, from very hot tracks, on road drives when it was below freezing, and even here:
IMG_20150917_154641_edit.jpg

For me, the Corsa is a terrific all-around choice.On the track, they like a good warmup and are sensitive to pressures... easy to accommodate those stipulations.

In summary, there is no bad choice. And you'll hear lots of people talk about their favorite tire, and why they love it. Keep in mind that we all come from different places, we're all looking for slightly different mixes, and what someone else thinks is perfect might not be the best choice for you. You have your own unique driving style and set of parameters, including wear and cost. Do your best to line up the feedback from those who's priorities most closely imitate your own. And if you're coming to NVE3 please introduce yourself and let me know which tire you chose!

[Fatboy 18]

I can tell you this, I run 18" wheels on my Gen II with Toyo R888.
Looking at that picture above in the rain, you would not want to be changing lanes at any speed with the Toyo R888 on the car! The car would most likely aquaplane!

The Toyo R888 tire is a soft compound tire, great in warm to hot weather on dry roads and track, but being a soft compound it wears out faster too.
I have no experience with the Toyo R888R as it is not currently made for Gen II 18" Wheels.

I have never used Pirelli tires either so can not advise.

[parabs]

I can tell you this, I run 18" wheels on my Gen II with Toyo R888.
Looking at that picture above in the rain, you would not want to be changing lanes at any speed with the Toyo R888 on the car! The car would most likely aquaplane!

The Toyo R888 tire is a soft compound tire, great in warm to hot weather on dry roads and track, but being a soft compound it wears out faster too.
I have no experience with the Toyo R888R as it is not currently made for Gen II 18" Wheels.

I have never used Pirelli tires either so can not advise.

The photo above isn’t rain, unfortunately it appears to be slush/snow....not a great situation to get caught out in no matter the tire! Impressive that the corsa’s stayed on the road!

[viperBase1]

I think timing and availability can also be a big factor.
It's not like you can go down to 7-11 and stare at a wall of 355's in multiple flavors from Pirelli, Michelin and Toyo etc...

My GenIV came with some R888's that had been driven a bit (see Slowhatch vids here) .
They were noisy as hell and tram-Lined all over the sucky SoCal roads. But they HOOKED UP.. nothing but solid grip. It was remarkable to say the least.
I'd NEVER drive them in the rain though. No doubt brand new they're more tame. Next time around, I won't hesitate to get 'em if I can find a set for the GenIV offset arrangement.

I needed to make my street ride more manageable. At the time, the only brand new tires that were available were Nitto Invo's. (there was some old stock layin' around, but I wanted brand new stock.) The Invo's are so smooth and quite on the street. Going straight ahead they hook up great. In the turns, there's a moment of tread wiggle and then solid grip.. a lot like PS2's I've driven on other cars. I've read that others consider the Invo's to be very predictable n' so far I can agree. Took 'em to the track recently, and they felt pretty good. It was my first time ever on a track so there's no way I took 'em close to their limits. The treads got plenty stippled but the tires held together fine.

While at the track, got a ride in an Instructors Z06.. showed me the line at speed.. scared the crap out of me in a couple of turns.
IMHO, the car felt like it was gonna completely break loose at any moment. He was haulin' ass.
When I got out of the car I looked at his tires.. they were Continental something or others.. blew me mind!
Continentals.. I don't know what to think of that..

For my next track day, thinkin' hard about R888's or Hoosiers (if I can find a way).

[Bruce H.]

OK. I'll dip my toe into the shark infested waters. As you likely already know, you'll get plenty of (sometimes conflicting) information. For context, here's my background. I have more than 25 years of track driving experience. I no longer put on many track miles... 5 or so events per year and only a session or two at each event. In the past, I participated in 20-30 track events per year. I'm definitely one of those "the older I get, the faster I used to be" guys. But more importantly as far as answering your question is concerned, I've never raced. !00% of my track miles were spent in cars with license plates, that I drove to and from the track. I've been lucky to have driven everything from Minivans to stretch Limo's to virtually every recent model of Ferrari and Lamborghini at speed on racetracks. My personal "track cars" -quotes used because every single one has also been street driven a fair bit- have included multiple Miatas, Porsches, Mustangs, Corvettes and the three Vipers in my signature among many others.

As you might imagine, I've driven on virtually every brand of tire available. And like you and most drivers who's cars wear multiple hats, and who's wallet appreciates as little exhaustion as possible, I'm always looking for that sweet spot combo of track grip, long life, sharp handling, reasonable quietness/streetablilty and low cost.

Let me start by saying that in my view, every car is fun to drive on a racetrack, and that low lap times are not always required to have fun. But you've got a Viper so you've already got the fun part really well covered! Not every tire is fun on a racetrack, however, with the possible exception of some off-brands that no one has heard of, every tire available in Viper sizes will do a reasonable job on a racetrack. So I doubt that you even have the option of making a big mistake with respect to tire selection.

That said, there's still a range of grip levels, wear resistance and "fall-apart-at-the-limit"ness available to you. On the track, I'm far less interested in ultimate grip than I am in a tire that exhibits predictable behavior as its limits are approached/reached. I'm faster running on tires that inspire confidence than on tires that have me wondering when my car is about to leap out of my hands, even if the latter tire has a slightly higher level of ultimate grip. Plus, i'm obviously enjoying myself much more when I know that if something doesn't go exactly according to plan, such as unexpected understeeer or oversteer I'll be able to deal with it because the tire exhibits predictable behavior.

I have run many sets of R888's over the years on many different cars... front engine, rear-mid engine, rear engine. They were fast, predictable and I always thought that they wore reasonably well for an R compound tire. They seemed to like a fair bit of camber. With my setups -lots of negative camber- street driving wore the insides down and track driving wore the outsides down. A nice tag team effort! I have not driven on the new R888R's but I would be very surprised if they're worse than the old model. I drove plenty of brisk wet laps in them with no issues.

The stock tires on my older Vipers (Michelin Pilots?) were fine. More of a street biased tire, and the cars themselves were definitely more "exciting" to drive... it was important to be on full alert on the track! To be fair, I didn't put a lot of track miles on either car and they were both bone stock, with factory alignments. And the 2001 was a lot more forgiving than the '94 on the track.

I currently run Michelin Pilot Super Sports on another car that sees some track use. They're very predictable, breakaway is smooth and easy to control. Considering the grip that they deliver, they really wear like iron. But for track use, I'd recommend more negative camber than most stock vehicles come with. I've recently blistered the outside edge on mine thanks to aggressive driving and 0 degrees of camber. I find them to be a bit on the noisy side on the highway if that matters.

If you do the majority of your driving on the street, with 4-5 track events per year, the Pirelli P-Zero could be a great choice. Relatively long life, great grip, low noise, sharp reflexes, predictable behavior at the limit. There's a reason that they're standard equipment on so many performance cars. Pricing is pretty reasonable too.

Lastly, the tires that are on my current Viper; Pirelli P-Zero Corsas. If you 'll be tracking more than 4-5 events per year and/or track performance carries more weight with you than, say, long life on the street, then this tire is a great all-around choice in my opinion. They're not super sticky for an R-Comp... kind of an R-Comp Light if there is such a thing. Compared to Cup 2's or Trofeo's they're definitely a notch down in grip. But I find them to be super duper predictable and confidence inspiring. The track grip level is about as high as I can stand these days; pretty darn high. (Randy Pobst set a 1:33 at Laguna on them which is wicked fast) They're quiet. And I'm very happy with the wear. I have a fresh set ready to go when these are done. (my third set in a row) I drive my car a fair bit on the street, and it's already been on some long trips. I've driven those tires in literally every condition, from very hot tracks, on road drives when it was below freezing, and even here:

For me, the Corsa is a terrific all-around choice.On the track, they like a good warmup and are sensitive to pressures... easy to accommodate those stipulations.

In summary, there is no bad choice. And you'll hear lots of people talk about their favorite tire, and why they love it. Keep in mind that we all come from different places, we're all looking for slightly different mixes, and what someone else thinks is perfect might not be the best choice for you. You have your own unique driving style and set of parameters, including wear and cost. Do your best to line up the feedback from those who's priorities most closely imitate your own. And if you're coming to NVE3 please introduce yourself and let me know which tire you chose!

Excellent post Doug!

I also value predictability at the limit above all else, and capability on both street and track equally. The Corsa provides excellent grip in all conditions, and on the Gen V makes it fully competitive with the fastest plated cars you see at the track in an advanced run group, ACR excepted. I crossed the US from Toronto to NVE in New Orleans and back, some parts in heavy rain, and did 6 spirited track days all on the same set. Probably on my 5th or 6th set now and another set waiting to go on for the trek to NVE 3 in Las Vegas in the spring. Great tire. Love them.

Fellow track rats with Sport Cup 2's on 911 GT3 RS aren't thrilled with theirs, complaining of them quickly heat cycling out.

Tough to find one tire that's good at all things, and I'm confident that the Corsa is the best that will fit the Gen V unless you're willing to make pretty significant sacrifices for ultimate grip.

Bruce

[TA Two Oh]

The photo above isn’t rain, unfortunately it appears to be slush/snow....not a great situation to get caught out in no matter the tire! Impressive that the corsa’s stayed on the road!

Correct! Not rain. This happened in the middle of a 1300 mile drive that included two track days at Miller Motorsports Park. There are eight passes above 5500 feet on that highway so weather can be an issue pretty much any time of the year. We drove through a rain that I can only describe as biblical. Then, it got worse. And even worse. Then then hail came down. I couldn't drive and take pictures while driving on the marbles so I had to wait until it had passed to get this shot. Those are hail marbles on the road. At one point in my nightmare something big hit my windshield. It turned out to be most of my vinyl numbers -for the track- that were on my hood. Never had that happen before but it drives home the point about how ugly it was. There weren't any places to take shelter and it was far too dangerous to stop on the road so we soldiered on. There were at least a couple of SUV's in the ditch on that stretch but the Corsa-shod Viper made it.

Not a situation that I'd wish on anyone but it does make for a good story. And one that is likely irrelevant to your situation. But I'm entrenched in the belief that the Corsa is an exceptionally well rounded tire. The next two days I turned some fast laps on those same tires. If you don't need that jack-of-all-trades ability from your tires, I'm sure that the Toyos would be an excellent choice.

Doug

[texasram]

I think timing and availability can also be a big factor.
It's not like you can go down to 7-11 and stare at a wall of 355's in multiple flavors from Pirelli, Michelin and Toyo etc...

My GenIV came with some R888's that had been driven a bit (see Slowhatch vids here) .
They were noisy as hell and tram-Lined all over the sucky SoCal roads. But they HOOKED UP.. nothing but solid grip. It was remarkable to say the least.
I'd NEVER drive them in the rain though. No doubt brand new they're more tame. Next time around, I won't hesitate to get 'em if I can find a set for the GenIV offset arrangement.

I needed to make my street ride more manageable. At the time, the only brand new tires that were available were Nitto Invo's. (there was some old stock layin' around, but I wanted brand new stock.) The Invo's are so smooth and quite on the street. Going straight ahead they hook up great. In the turns, there's a moment of tread wiggle and then solid grip.. a lot like PS2's I've driven on other cars. I've read that others consider the Invo's to be very predictable n' so far I can agree. Took 'em to the track recently, and they felt pretty good. It was my first time ever on a track so there's no way I took 'em close to their limits. The treads got plenty stippled but the tires held together fine.

While at the track, got a ride in an Instructors Z06.. showed me the line at speed.. scared the crap out of me in a couple of turns.
IMHO, the car felt like it was gonna completely break loose at any moment. He was haulin' ass.
When I got out of the car I looked at his tires.. they were Continental something or others.. blew me mind!
Continentals.. I don't know what to think of that..

For my next track day, thinkin' hard about R888's or Hoosiers (if I can find a way).

Probably continental extreme contact on that Z06. Are you deciding between hoosiers and r888 for permanent tire street/track or just those for track? because i would deffinetely go with a pilot SS over invo for back and forth combo.

[ViperGeorge]

You don't mention what type of Viper you have. If an ACR with Ceramic brakes and 19" front wheels your choices are definitely limited to Kumhos. The Kumhos are awesome on the track while they last but they wear out very quickly. If any other type of Viper you have several choices. Personally I'm not a fan of the PZeros. Ran them on my TA 2.0 in the rain and they scared the crap out of me. I liked the Corsas that came with the car but they didn't last very long on the track. Most recently I ran Michelin PS2s in the front and Michelin PSSs in the rear on my ACR-E (I have steel brakes and can run 18" fronts). Tread patterns are almost identical but the PS2 is a bit stickier. This actually can help with understeer.

[viperBase1]

Probably continental extreme contact on that Z06. Are you deciding between hoosiers and r888 for permanent tire street/track or just those for track? because i would deffinetely go with a pilot SS over invo for back and forth combo.

Prolly gonna get another set of wheels with Toyo's just for track (drive 'em there and back) n' keep the Invo's for street and looks.

Yea at the time, couldn't get PSS's or Pirelli's or a complete of Toyos.

[dewilmoth]

You don't mention what type of Viper you have. If an ACR with Ceramic brakes and 19" front wheels your choices are definitely limited to Kumhos.

Not entirely true, only if you’re dead set on the stock size. I run R888R on the front of my ACR and I’ve been very happy with them in the short time I’ve had them.

[ViperGeorge]

Not entirely true, only if you’re dead set on the stock size. I run R888R on the front of my ACR and I’ve been very happy with them in the short time I’ve had them.

I'm not familiar with the R888R. Does it come in a 295/25/19? If not then you would have to reset ride height and rake. My impression was the OP was asking about stock sizes.

[IHOP]

Probably continental extreme contact on that Z06. Are you deciding between hoosiers and r888 for permanent tire street/track or just those for track? because i would deffinetely go with a pilot SS over invo for back and forth combo.

I was asking for one set of tires to use on street and track. But after I posted this I fellow member hooked me up with a set of track wheels so it looks like Hoosiers on those for track days. But I have regular PZeros right now, they are pretty good on the street but after reading this post I'm thinking of picking up Corsa's for the next street set.

[IHOP]

I have a non ACR Gen V with TA 1.0 Aero, sorry for not including that.

[IHOP]

Correct! Not rain. This happened in the middle of a 1300 mile drive that included two track days at Miller Motorsports Park. There are eight passes above 5500 feet on that highway so weather can be an issue pretty much any time of the year. We drove through a rain that I can only describe as biblical. Then, it got worse. And even worse. Then then hail came down. I couldn't drive and take pictures while driving on the marbles so I had to wait until it had passed to get this shot. Those are hail marbles on the road. At one point in my nightmare something big hit my windshield. It turned out to be most of my vinyl numbers -for the track- that were on my hood. Never had that happen before but it drives home the point about how ugly it was. There weren't any places to take shelter and it was far too dangerous to stop on the road so we soldiered on. There were at least a couple of SUV's in the ditch on that stretch but the Corsa-shod Viper made it.

Not a situation that I'd wish on anyone but it does make for a good story. And one that is likely irrelevant to your situation. But I'm entrenched in the belief that the Corsa is an exceptionally well rounded tire. The next two days I turned some fast laps on those same tires. If you don't need that jack-of-all-trades ability from your tires, I'm sure that the Toyos would be an excellent choice.

Doug

Doug, thank you for your posts. A ton of really good info in them, your help is much appreciated!

[silver7iron]

03.jpg

I'm running R888R's on my TA. They're available in a gen V stock size with the exception of a 10 mil width loss on the rear. I bought them for a track day planned for last weekend. Unfortunately the plan fell through, and I haven't had any track experience with them yet.

However, they've been awesome on the street and hook extremely well. I've had 2 rain events with them, and had no problems under 65 mph. The road noise level is exaggerated all over the internet too. It's been fine.

[cashcorn]

^^^ What size front/rear? They look bad ass! Do they hook from a roll in 1st? thanks. Greg

[silver7iron]

^^^ What size front/rear? They look bad ass! Do they hook from a roll in 1st? thanks. Greg

Yessir, they do. And they are 295/30/18 fronts and 345/30/19 rears.

[IHOP]

Yessir, they do. And they are 295/30/18 fronts and 345/30/19 rears.

Thank you!

[LmeaViper]

I was asking for one set of tires to use on street and track. But after I posted this I fellow member hooked me up with a set of track wheels so it looks like Hoosiers on those for track days. But I have regular PZeros right now, they are pretty good on the street but after reading this post I'm thinking of picking up Corsa's for the next street set.

Not sure of your off-season weather, however I think the Pzero's are a great street tire. Decent grip, good wear and you don't have to be concerned about using or wrecking them when the ambient temps get low.
Got caught in a snow storm on the highway when I bought my car and the PZero's did better than I expected.

[IHOP]

Not sure of your off-season weather, however I think the Pzero's are a great street tire. Decent grip, good wear and you don't have to be concerned about using or wrecking them when the ambient temps get low.
Got caught in a snow storm on the highway when I bought my car and the PZero's did better than I expected.

Oh another good point I forgot I live in Phoenix, AZ.

[slowhatch]

R888's have been the best tire I've ever had on a vehicle. Tons of grip, lots of feedback, very progressive at the limit, and come to temp very quickly. People always talk about tire noise and I honestly think its another one of those things that people just repeat blindly without actually experiencing it. I've never "heard" tires in a Viper in my life. Maybe I'm deaf, maybe I'm just driving instead of listening to tire roar?

I have the new R888R on the way for my gen 5 right now.

[ViperGeorge]

How do the R888Rs compare to Hoosier R7s on the track?

[theviper]

The photo above isn’t rain, unfortunately it appears to be slush/snow....not a great situation to get caught out in no matter the tire! Impressive that the corsa’s stayed on the road!

Better to be lucky than good. Count your blessings that nothing happened. Happy to hear you made it out of that storm safely!