Lug nut loosening torque

[Fatboy 18]

My Cordless 1/2 sq drive lug nut gun will undo my nuts but it puts a lot of stress through the tool so I always break the nuts first then spin them off using the lug nut gun. I also have the longer Snake Oyl wheel studs which take a lug nut 32 full turns to undo! When replacing them always final tighten using a 1/2 inch Sq Drive torque wrench.

[Racingswh]

I have a Milwaukee. It's weak. Not junk but weak. 18V I believe.

Now I have this Kobalt 20V also. 2 of them actually. Bought them at Lowe's cheap.

Works better than I could have ever imagined. I use it WITH the extension and lug nuts come straight off. I never loosen the lugs anymore before the car goes up in the air. With the Milwaukee when I first got it I was jacking the car up fully expecting the lugs to come off with the gun, putting it down to use the breaker bar, then back up. Through the extension forget it. Never coming off. Never ever have to do that using the Kobalt.

[Viper Specialty]

Milwaukee makes NUMEROUS quality levels of impacts, and they are not all created equal. There are at least 4 versions of the 3/8 drive alone.

That said, their upper level tools regularly win just about any test put in front of them, and are all known to be severely under-rated. Everyone can of course use whatever products they want, but the fact remains, this particular issue should not exist with the tool he is using. So, either the lugs are CRAZY over-torqued, or something is actually wrong with the impact itself.

And just so everyone is aware, the whole 20V thing is a marketing scam. ALL 18V products register 20V when fully charged. The manufacturers just don't have the balls to falsely claim they are 20V, and instead rate them by their nominal loaded voltage, which is 18V. See for yourself!

[ACR]

You guys are using shit tools, harbor freight or nothing else

[Racingswh]

Milwaukee makes NUMEROUS quality levels of impacts, and they are not all created equal. There are at least 4 versions of the 3/8 drive alone.

That said, their upper level tools regularly win just about any test put in front of them, and are all known to be severely under-rated. Everyone can of course use whatever products they want, but the fact remains, this particular issue should not exist with the tool he is using. So, either the lugs are CRAZY over-torqued, or something is actually wrong with the impact itself.

And just so everyone is aware, the whole 20V thing is a marketing scam. ALL 18V products register 20V when fully charged. The manufacturers just don't have the balls to falsely claim they are 20V, and instead rate them by their nominal loaded voltage, which is 18V. See for yourself!

I don't know what mine is other than it says Milwaukee on it. The box is Red. It's a 1/2" drive. It was a gift and cost about $400. It would never take off lug nuts through an extension that were torqued to 107 lbs.

I was at the track with my Brother In Law and he had just bought this Kobalt like in my picture. I am looking at him and the thing is literally whizzing the lug nuts off the car. I just started laughing and said WTF is that thing?? He says "I bought it at Lowes". Next time I was there I got one for myself and my Dad. Anytime anyone has to take lug nuts off they grab one of those things. One thing about me, especially when it comes to anything that has to do with cars or track stuff, is that I don't make stuff up. lol!!

Sorry to say I don't even take the Milwaukee to the track with me anymore.

[ek1]

Have you tried the obvious, which is breaking loose the lugs and making sure they are torqued correctly before blaming the impact?

Like I said more than once already in this thread, I have the same damn tools, and dont have your problem, on DOZENS of cars. The obvious answer, is that something is not right on your end. If you dont think you can have a wheel lug torqued to 200+ and still not be broken, think again!

I have a Craftsman electronic torque wrench, so unless it's broken (does not appear to be), the lug nuts are torqued at 107.

By the way, after buying a 3/8" drive 19mm socket, I managed to break ONE lug nut loose after running the tool for like 15 seconds. This is bullshit!

I loosened a few lug nuts and re-tightened them to 100 ft-lbs and sure enough, the tool can loosen them after about 2 seconds of impacting. I did not try going higher than 100...have better things to do with my time. So the REAL max breakaway torque that the tool has is somewhere between 100 and around 103-105 lb-ft. I looked at the 1/2" tool when I was at Home Depot today. Bigger body, much bigger and heavier battery, bigger carrying case.

I am thinking I'll just keep the tool and torque my lug nuts to 100 lb-ft at the track and check them every session.

[ek1]

Maybe his battery is going bad and not putting out enough volts..

Impossible. Tool came with 2 brand new batteries that I charged overnight.

[ek1]

Milwaukee makes NUMEROUS quality levels of impacts, and they are not all created equal. There are at least 4 versions of the 3/8 drive alone.

That said, their upper level tools regularly win just about any test put in front of them, and are all known to be severely under-rated. Everyone can of course use whatever products they want, but the fact remains, this particular issue should not exist with the tool he is using. So, either the lugs are CRAZY over-torqued, or something is actually wrong with the impact itself.

And just so everyone is aware, the whole 20V thing is a marketing scam. ALL 18V products register 20V when fully charged. The manufacturers just don't have the balls to falsely claim they are 20V, and instead rate them by their nominal loaded voltage, which is 18V. See for yourself!

All 3/8 drive 18V Milwaukee impact wrenches are created equal in terms of torque. Differences are in the attachment type and packaging (bare tool, with batteries, etc). The 1/2 drive is a different story. They have older models and new models, as well as regular and "high torque" models that put out something crazy, like 1,000 ft-lbs. Their web site does not work at the moment, so I could not look it up. I specifically wanted the 3/8 drive tool because its smaller than 1/2.

P.S. My lug nuts are not overtorqued. They are torqued at 107 ft-lbs .

[ek1]

I don't know what mine is other than it says Milwaukee on it. The box is Red. It's a 1/2" drive. It was a gift and cost about $400. It would never take off lug nuts through an extension that were torqued to 107 lbs.

I was at the track with my Brother In Law and he had just bought this Kobalt like in my picture. I am looking at him and the thing is literally whizzing the lug nuts off the car. I just started laughing and said WTF is that thing?? He says "I bought it at Lowes". Next time I was there I got one for myself and my Dad. Anytime anyone has to take lug nuts off they grab one of those things. One thing about me, especially when it comes to anything that has to do with cars or track stuff, is that I don't make stuff up. lol!!

Sorry to say I don't even take the Milwaukee to the track with me anymore.

No wonder....Kobalt is a 1/2 drive tool with 650-ft-lbs of breakaway torque. No wonder it works. Milwakee has a 1,000 ft-lbs 1/2 tool now. I wanted something more compact.

[Patentlaw]

I don't know the exact situation that you are in, but you also have to factor in differences in temperature that contribute to the torque values.
As stated above, lubrication has a huge effect on the torque values.

Most torque values in highly critical areas, such as aircraft and nuclear power plants, are done "dry".

If you have a crappy tool, add in temperature and lubrication. The torque values can go up dramatically.

Lastly, search "break away torque". It is common for the break away torque to be higher in value than a finishing torque value because the initiation of rotation needs to start to move the nut.

[38D]

Using an electric impact to loosen lug nuts is perfectly fine. I've been doing this for 12 years on the same car and have never had to replace a stud or nut because of damage. And I have removed the wheels at least 500 times off that car.

I use a snap-on 1/2" drive cordless impact, and it always works. My prior one, a DeWalt, would sometimes not have enough power.

[Viper Specialty]

All 3/8 drive 18V Milwaukee impact wrenches are created equal in terms of torque. Differences are in the attachment type and packaging (bare tool, with batteries, etc). The 1/2 drive is a different story. They have older models and new models, as well as regular and "high torque" models that put out something crazy, like 1,000 ft-lbs. Their web site does not work at the moment, so I could not look it up. I specifically wanted the 3/8 drive tool because its smaller than 1/2.

P.S. My lug nuts are not overtorqued. They are torqued at 107 ft-lbs .

Incorrect.

The 3/8 Drive P/N's 2651, 2654, 2658, and all of their variations and kits absolutely do not have the same capability as the upper end 210 ft/lb models, some are as low as the 160 range.

There has got to be something else going on here. Are you using a long extension? Extensions KILL impact power as they absorb rather than apply the impact force.

I am telling you guys, I can walk into the shop right now, pick any lug on any car, and even my 1/4 drive hex Milwaukee [Rated 150 lbs] can zip a lug off in under two seconds. If anyone wants me to post a video, I will, lol

[Viper Specialty]

I don't know what mine is other than it says Milwaukee on it. The box is Red. It's a 1/2" drive. It was a gift and cost about $400. It would never take off lug nuts through an extension that were torqued to 107 lbs.

I was at the track with my Brother In Law and he had just bought this Kobalt like in my picture. I am looking at him and the thing is literally whizzing the lug nuts off the car. I just started laughing and said WTF is that thing?? He says "I bought it at Lowes". Next time I was there I got one for myself and my Dad. Anytime anyone has to take lug nuts off they grab one of those things. One thing about me, especially when it comes to anything that has to do with cars or track stuff, is that I don't make stuff up. lol!!

Sorry to say I don't even take the Milwaukee to the track with me anymore.

I have the feeling you are falling into the "drive size trap". The 210 version of the Milwaukee indeed comes in a half drive, as do the even smaller 160-200 models. Through an extension, I can absolutely see having an issue. The Kobalt is a MUCH bigger impact driver, and would be comparable to the Milwaukee 2763. There is no way in hell the 2763 would have an issue even with an extension, I have pulled off 4-500 pound axle nuts and similar with the thing, no issue whatsoever.

If you post up a picture of your drivers, I can guarantee its not an apples to apples comparison. I do blame Milwaukee for this, they have WAY too many redundant models.

[ek1]

Incorrect.

The 3/8 Drive P/N's 2651, 2654, 2658, and all of their variations and kits absolutely do not have the same capability as the upper end 210 ft/lb models, some are as low as the 160 range.

There has got to be something else going on here. Are you using a long extension? Extensions KILL impact power as they absorb rather than apply the impact force.

I am telling you guys, I can walk into the shop right now, pick any lug on any car, and even my 1/4 drive hex Milwaukee [Rated 150 lbs] can zip a lug off in under two seconds. If anyone wants me to post a video, I will, lol

You are right....I looked up all the 3/8 drive M18 "Fuel" tools...all those have the same torque. The non-"Fuel" 3/8 drive tools have less. Mine is the "Fuel" one rated at 210.

I was using an extension, but now I am not using one and I was BARELY able to get ONE lug nut off after running the tool for like 30 seconds. As I mentioned in my other post, if I torque the lug nut at 100 ft-lbs, the tool is able to loosen it after 2 seconds.

[ForTehNguyen]

extensions reduce the amount of effective torque at the fastener too, its like drivetrain losses

[Viper Specialty]

You are right....I looked up all the 3/8 drive M18 "Fuel" tools...all those have the same torque. The non-"Fuel" 3/8 drive tools have less. Mine is the "Fuel" one rated at 210.

I was using an extension, but now I am not using one and I was BARELY able to get ONE lug nut off after running the tool for like 30 seconds. As I mentioned in my other post, if I torque the lug nut at 100 ft-lbs, the tool is able to loosen it after 2 seconds.

Got it, yes, that makes the difference. And I also assume the obvious that you are using the highest setting on the tool?

You may be having an issue with stiction for some reason. If you loosen your lugs with a breaker, do they "SNAP" loose? If so, you may want to take a look at the lug seat. There may be a little galling, powdercoating, or similar in there causing them to stick at far beyond the normal breakaway torque. I usually see this on newer cars, and it fades with time as the lugs get used more.

Also, how new is the impact? By design Impacts will gain more impact torque as they "break in" and shed grease off the anvil.

I would suggest doing a test wheel, loosen and re-torque all lugs to 107, make sure you have the highest setting, no extension, and then give it a try. It may be as simple as the lugs were over-torqued. I know it sounds unlikely, but all you need to do to over-torque with an electric torque wrench is accidentally apply torque during calibration, and it will be wrong until it re-calibrates. Not hard to accidentally do at all.

[Racingswh]

I have the feeling you are falling into the "drive size trap". The 210 version of the Milwaukee indeed comes in a half drive, as do the even smaller 160-200 models. Through an extension, I can absolutely see having an issue. The Kobalt is a MUCH bigger impact driver, and would be comparable to the Milwaukee 2763. There is no way in hell the 2763 would have an issue even with an extension, I have pulled off 4-500 pound axle nuts and similar with the thing, no issue whatsoever.

If you post up a picture of your drivers, I can guarantee its not an apples to apples comparison. I do blame Milwaukee for this, they have WAY too many redundant models.

I am not trying to contradict you and I know what you're saying is true. It's just too bad that the Milwaukee has different grades. I am not a big research the tool guy like Eugene is which I commend him for. I just use what works for me with the least amount of hassle.

Do you remember the Goodyear Blue Impact Guns you could buy at Pep Boys for 79.99? I think they said 24V on them. My Dad had one before it blew apart in his hand. Another friend had one as well which I think is why I bought it for my Dad. He and my Mom bought the Milwaukee 1/2" gun for me as a gift. I would be sitting there on my car and the Milwaukee would be banging away for what seemed like awhile and his lugs would be off already. I didn't say anything and used the Milwaukee for years because he had bought it for me as a gift. I knew Milwaukee had a great name so I just figured he bought the wrong one and it sounds like I was right.

We don't have any space challenges with all the support, trucks and trailers now so I don't think of buying smaller stuff but that makes a lot of sense if all you have is the car to carry everything you take to track events or even if you have storage space limitations for tools etc.

We just use what works in our experience and doesn't cost us an arm and a leg to buy it.

[Viper Specialty]

I am not trying to contradict you and I know what you're saying is true. It's just too bad that the Milwaukee has different grades. I am not a big research the tool guy like Eugene is which I commend him for. I just use what works for me with the least amount of hassle.

Do you remember the Goodyear Blue Impact Guns you could buy at Pep Boys for 79.99? I think they said 24V on them. My Dad had one before it blew apart in his hand. Another friend had one as well which I think is why I bought it for my Dad. He and my Mom bought the Milwaukee 1/2" gun for me as a gift. I would be sitting there on my car and the Milwaukee would be banging away for what seemed like awhile and his lugs would be off already. I didn't say anything and used the Milwaukee for years because he had bought it for me as a gift. I knew Milwaukee had a great name so I just figured he bought the wrong one and it sounds like I was right.

We don't have any space challenges with all the support, trucks and trailers now so I don't think of buying smaller stuff but that makes a lot of sense if all you have is the car to carry everything you take to track events or even if you have storage space limitations for tools etc.

We just use what works in our experience and doesn't cost us an arm and a leg to buy it.

No worries at all man.

For what its worth, I may actually upgrade again this fall as the 2763 is finally coming out in a 2767 One-Key, so I may have that very lightly used High-Torque up for sale [Thats the 700lb/1100lb breakaway 1/2 drive friction ring model]

Secondly, through all of this spec research apparently there is an M18 Fuel version available even I didnt know was out there. They have a Mid-Torque model which falls between the compact 3/8 drive [210] and the high torque [700] version. It is set at 450, and is a much more compact version of the high-torque.

If you guys are looking for a compact version for lug duty, and want a hell of an overhead, that would be the ideal version. I am still saying I have no problem with the 210 version for that use, but if you guys are seeing issues, that mid-torque would be the answer:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee...1-20/300955651

[ACR Steve]

My Cup car torques to 350 lb

Use this the best gun on the market - Milwaukee M18 Fuel ( 700 lbs fastening / 1,100 lbs un fast

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-...rdless/2763-22

[Viper Specialty]

My Cup car torques to 350 lb

Use this the best gun on the market - Milwaukee M18 Fuel ( 700 lbs fastening / 1,100 lbs un fast

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-...rdless/2763-22

One post above you, that's the same tool I just said I would likely be parting with in a few months when they release the new One Key version lol

The only problem with this tool is that it is a monster, both in size and weight, but also torque. For your app, it makes total sense. For standard wheel lugs, it is serious overkill. Not that it wont do the job of course, but if you are looking for compact size and you arent getting much over the 250lb range, the Mid-Torque would be a better fit. The 2763 is the tool you reach for when "I dont care if it unscrews or snaps off, the damn thing is coming off!"

[bluesrt]

yep I got one of those but in a matco, it will destroy everything it comes in contact with

[ek1]

Got it, yes, that makes the difference. And I also assume the obvious that you are using the highest setting on the tool?

You may be having an issue with stiction for some reason. If you loosen your lugs with a breaker, do they "SNAP" loose? If so, you may want to take a look at the lug seat. There may be a little galling, powdercoating, or similar in there causing them to stick at far beyond the normal breakaway torque. I usually see this on newer cars, and it fades with time as the lugs get used more.

Also, how new is the impact? By design Impacts will gain more impact torque as they "break in" and shed grease off the anvil.

I would suggest doing a test wheel, loosen and re-torque all lugs to 107, make sure you have the highest setting, no extension, and then give it a try. It may be as simple as the lugs were over-torqued. I know it sounds unlikely, but all you need to do to over-torque with an electric torque wrench is accidentally apply torque during calibration, and it will be wrong until it re-calibrates. Not hard to accidentally do at all.

My lug nuts are smooth as butter. Once it breaks loose, I can almost unscrew them by hand. I also take care not to throw them on the floor when I take them off, so they are crystal clean.

The tool is BRAND NEW. Just took it out of the box. What is the "break-in" period?

[Viper Specialty]

My lug nuts are smooth as butter. Once it breaks loose, I can almost unscrew them by hand. I also take care not to throw them on the floor when I take them off, so they are crystal clean.

The tool is BRAND NEW. Just took it out of the box. What is the "break-in" period?

The only thing that matters really is the initial breakaway. If you get a "creak, pop or snap" when it breaks loose with a breaker bar [NOT impact] that can indicate a very high required breakaway torque, because the lug is actually sticking to the seat.

Generally, a day or two of good usage is enough to break them in.

Lastly, care to post a picture of exactly what you are using? How many settings does yours have? 2, 3 or 4? There may be something we are not considering here... or it could just plain 'ole be a bad impact driver.

[ek1]

Here is the tool:

20170817_213724.jpg20170817_213736.jpg20170817_213926.jpg20170817_214040.jpg

Here is the socket: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-3-8...19MM/202913533