Any Porsche 991 owners w/a Gen V Viper (or both)?

[Hothonda]

Personal experience - thoughts - pro's & cons.

Thinking hard right now.

Thanks!

[05Commemorative]

Personal experience - thoughts - pro's & cons.

Thinking hard right now.

Thanks!

What 911 model? 2S, 4S, Turbo, conv, etc?

Also, what is the primary purpose? daily drive that take to the track sometimes. special day car? I ask because it makes a big difference.

Hi level, yes. The 911 is a fantastic quality car that have been engineered very well. In my opinion, the most liveable daily driver high performance car you can get. I think it misses something special the Viper has, but depends on your use. If wanting a daily driver, the 911 (in any of its forms) is the better car. If a different purpose, then the answer will vary.

[Policy Limits]

I shopped the new 991 C4S against the new Granturismo Sport. Both are great daily drivers and same exact price point. I chose Maserati over Porsche because it had a better look, better sound, and isn't a dime a dozen all over the road. Just my .02 cents

[ViperSmith]

When I canceled my Gen V originally, I was looking at a 9914S. But it just had no soul, sadly.

A terrific engineering masterpiece. But, it was just bland.

[Hothonda]

2013 C2S....PSAM sport suspension, Sport exhaust , Dual clutch PDK, sport chrono (dynamic engine mounts) - regular - sport & sport plus modes.

90% canyon carving toy....

[ViperSmith]

Those wheels are sexy on that car

[Policy Limits]

Nice color too; even the GT3 has gone automatic now...sheesh.

Have u checked out the new Targa? I like the look & the auto removal of the top is crazy cool

[Hothonda]

Have u checked out the new Targa? I like the look & the auto removal of the top is crazy cool

Not for the timid if a DIY fix needed...yikes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7xSw7bEms

Any other recent Porsche defectors?

[Policy Limits]

Yeah I'd never own a car out of warranty so that's immaterial to me.

Problem is mass produced cayenne panamera & boxsters all over the road with the same general look. Brand dilution for the sake of profit; the result: yawn when you see a 911 (unfortunately)

[Rizzo]

I sold my 911 this fall. I didnt even have it a year. The car did absolutely nothing for me. I knew it was time to sell it when id rather drive my 1/2 ton to work. Lol. The car just didnt excite me at all. You see a ton of them on the road and theres nothing really exciting about them. It was a bucket list car for me but it will be the last one ill ever own. Just not my thing. Great cars but just not for me.

[Hothonda]

I sold my 911 this fall. I didnt even have it a year. The car did absolutely nothing for me. I knew it was time to sell it when id rather drive my 1/2 ton to work. Lol. The car just didnt excite me at all. You see a ton of them on the road and theres nothing really exciting about them. It was a bucket list car for me but it will be the last one ill ever own. Just not my thing. Great cars but just not for me.

Thanks for your experience- sincerely appreciated.

[Policy Limits]

If you want a Porsche with soul grab a GT3 RS. That'll work.

[Hothonda]

If you want a Porsche with soul grab a GT3 RS. That'll work.

Yes & they (997 version) are going through the roof $$ for late model, low mile cars. 991 GT3 RS due to debut in the Geneva 2014 show.

New 991 GT3 RS (plural) winter testing (GT3 have center exhaust & centerlock wheels):

[VRYALT3R3D]

Personal experience - thoughts - pro's & cons.

Thinking hard right now.

Thanks!

What is your end goal?

[former345bhpLS1]

Isn't this kinda like going to an NRA forum and asking if you should buy a rifle? Still a good question as both are excellent cars.

I rented a GenV (Red SRT Track pack) for 24 hours back in August. A friend joined me for the rental and brought his 997.2 C2S PDK with PASM, so there was a great opportunity for back to back comparisons. The 997 is a bit different from the 991, but you can still make some generalizations.

The cars are very different (as expected) in personality, but do share some common characteristics. Ironically, their handling is the most similar. Both cars have remarkably crisp turn-in and I was surprised that the GenV felt so agile. I did not expect a front-mid engine car to turn in so well. Both cars also have tremendous traction on corner exit, much more than say a C6 Z06. I did not expect a car with 600 lb-ft of torque to be able to use first gear so effectively exiting a 30 mph hairpin - but it really can. In 60-70 deg temps, you can really use full throttle exiting corners in 2nd gear and the acceleration is tremendous!

In every other respect, the cars are pretty much polar opposites. The 911 is much better "transportation" in that it can feel like a normal car under commuting conditions and performs brilliantly in the canyons.

The Viper is not transportation - no more than skydiving is transportation, and the car reminds you of this every time you drive it. It feels slightly vintage (like late 90s early 2000s) in the level of driver involvement and engine vibration, etc. But it is thoroughly modern in it's capabilities and harmonization of controls. The car doesn't like to drive slow, but it shrinks and works better and better as you push it harder. However, it requires a lot of driver involvement at all speeds. If you like to zone out when transiting from the canyons to your home, don't get the Viper. It demands your attention at all times. It also feels special every time you drive it and raises the hairs on the back of you neck every time you look at it. It will also take several years to really build up your proficiency with the car, much longer than the Porsche. If you like to keep a car for 1-2 years then change up, probably not a good choice.

Also, in the Viper the engine is sort-of at the center of the experience. It blats loudly at idle and vibrates the entire car during normal driving. The car feels like a living thing. In the Porsche, no part of the car stands out and it feels more like an appliance for speed. An extremely effective appliance and real tool for driving fast, but also much more sterile. Especially with PDK, you will be amazed by the powertrain when thrashing the car, but possibly quite bored when driving at more moderate speeds. You will never be bored in the Viper, but the engine drones (from 2000-2400 rpms), the visibility is not nearly as good as the 911, there is more road noise (though not that much more), and the car feels more intimidating to drive.

The Viper will likely keep it's value better than a well-optioned 911 since there are so many more 911 built, but this remains to be seen. Don't buy either as an investment!

Those are my thoughts. I found the Viper much better as a weekend driving experience and now desperately want one. With the 911, I really enjoyed driving it, but after a weekend in the drivers seat I was ready to move on. I don't feel a longing to drive it again, as much as it was fun to drive.

This would be an easy thing to answer if you drive both cars, but with the way Dodge dealerships work...

Hope this is helpful.

-Nick

[Hothonda]

Isn't this kinda like going to an NRA forum and asking if you should buy a rifle? Still a good question as both are excellent cars.

I rented a GenV (Red SRT Track pack) for 24 hours back in August. A friend joined me for the rental and brought his 997.2 C2S PDK with PASM, so there was a great opportunity for back to back comparisons. The 997 is a bit different from the 991, but you can still make some generalizations.

The cars are very different (as expected) in personality, but do share some common characteristics. Ironically, their handling is the most similar. Both cars have remarkably crisp turn-in and I was surprised that the GenV felt so agile. I did not expect a front-mid engine car to turn in so well. Both cars also have tremendous traction on corner exit, much more than say a C6 Z06. I did not expect a car with 600 lb-ft of torque to be able to use first gear so effectively exiting a 30 mph hairpin - but it really can. In 60-70 deg temps, you can really use full throttle exiting corners in 2nd gear and the acceleration is tremendous!

In every other respect, the cars are pretty much polar opposites. The 911 is much better "transportation" in that it can feel like a normal car under commuting conditions and performs brilliantly in the canyons.

The Viper is not transportation - no more than skydiving is transportation, and the car reminds you of this every time you drive it. It feels slightly vintage (like late 90s early 2000s) in the level of driver involvement and engine vibration, etc. But it is thoroughly modern in it's capabilities and harmonization of controls. The car doesn't like to drive slow, but it shrinks and works better and better as you push it harder. However, it requires a lot of driver involvement at all speeds. If you like to zone out when transiting from the canyons to your home, don't get the Viper. It demands your attention at all times. It also feels special every time you drive it and raises the hairs on the back of you neck every time you look at it. It will also take several years to really build up your proficiency with the car, much longer than the Porsche. If you like to keep a car for 1-2 years then change up, probably not a good choice.

Also, in the Viper the engine is sort-of at the center of the experience. It blats loudly at idle and vibrates the entire car during normal driving. The car feels like a living thing. In the Porsche, no part of the car stands out and it feels more like an appliance for speed. An extremely effective appliance and real tool for driving fast, but also much more sterile. Especially with PDK, you will be amazed by the powertrain when thrashing the car, but possibly quite bored when driving at more moderate speeds. You will never be bored in the Viper, but the engine drones (from 2000-2400 rpms), the visibility is not nearly as good as the 911, there is more road noise (though not that much more), and the car feels more intimidating to drive.

The Viper will likely keep it's value better than a well-optioned 911 since there are so many more 911 built, but this remains to be seen. Don't buy either as an investment!

Those are my thoughts. I found the Viper much better as a weekend driving experience and now desperately want one. With the 911, I really enjoyed driving it, but after a weekend in the drivers seat I was ready to move on. I don't feel a longing to drive it again, as much as it was fun to drive.

This would be an easy thing to answer if you drive both cars, but with the way Dodge dealerships work...

Hope this is helpful.

-Nick

Thank you.....Thoughtful & respectful reply!

I'm torn between moving from a scalpel to a broadsword. Both do the job in their own ways.

Depreciation on the 991 P-cars (actually all new Porsches) is horrendous. When you go to buy they
are "rare & hard to get" and when you want to get out "they made too many". The 991 Turbo S is near
$200K & if you're lucky you might get 5% the last day of the month on an off color. $300 oil changes
are typical. All that said, they drive great & are built w/the best materials. Mine has been reliable in 12 months
of ownership. Gas mileage 26-27 hwy.....20 mixed.

Once in a while I do the cars & coffee Saturdays - the Porsche holds it's own, but find myself going over to the
where the American Muscle cars are grouped & feel at home there too. Also owned multiple NSX's from 1994 & it's
a fantastic car - Honda gave up on them in the late '90's and finally killed it in 2005. The upcoming 2015 has big shoes to fill.
The NSX community was a huge side benefit to ownership - yearly NSXPO's held at major tracks
w/driver's schools, seminars etc. Viper owners seem to have a similar bond. That's attractive to me.

Going to attempt to drive one this upcoming week. The problem here in the Seattle area is that the dealers have
them as showpieces for people to look at while their salesman is going back and forth to the sales mgr with
offers. If they move them or not seems to make no difference. When you have 200 Dodges & Jeeps to move, well you know.

I go to bed thinking the Viper idea sounds good & when I wake up in the morning I'm thinking WTF is wrong w/me?

[slitherv10]

There is not one car out there that is BRAND NEW..I repeat, BRAND NEW, as I am sure there are used versions of competitors that can do the job. that can compete against the Viper in many of the reasons we buy a super car for and in its price range.

Between 100 and 130K there is not one BRAND NEW car that can put itself next to a Viper and be as exclusive and or as good on the track. Especially the TA. No Porsche in the price range of a Viper can compete in any of those reasons named above. Even the GT3's and the TT's which cost almost double can justify the performance difference and definitely not the exclusiveness.
It would be a hands down decision if those were the criteria. If your a die hard Porsche guy, then anything anyone says here will make any difference, but, if your a car guy in general, then the option to own a Viper is plain as English.

[former345bhpLS1]

The Viper is a very precise tool these days, more like an extremely powerful scalpel, but it is a more difficult tool to use than the Porsche.

If a test drive is a problem, there is another option.

Hertz rents an SRT Viper with track pack in SoCal and Houston. It's $799/day + $3/mile after 75 miles. Not cheap, but worth it to decide if the car is right for you. You could fly into San Diego, Orange County, or LA and rent the car for a day. Total cost would probably be ~$1300 with airfare, hotel, and Viper + another 100-200 miles. I wasn't totally taken with the GenV in the first 20 miles, it's worth it to drive more and really appreciate the car or find out what you have been missing. Club Sportiva also rents the Viper (thats who I rented from in NorCal) and they will deliver (though not sure about Seattle). They were very easy to work with and the cost is similar ($899/day +$2.75/mile after 100 miles).

All this costs something, but it is a tiny cost compared to buying the wrong car. Plus it is a great adventure! I have a friend in Irvine that can give you advice on good roads if you end up down there.

-Nick