Those that complain vs those that don't for the GenV - an observation

[05Commemorative]

I almost hate to post this, but seemed like a worthy item to get out directly.

I have been reading the posts on here and other forum for GenV for the past year. I have noticed the following three category observations:

1) Those that have purchased or at least driven the GenV - speak very highly of the car. They have minor issues that are represented by personal experience and facts, but do a good job of stating their experiences.

2) Those prior gen owners that read magazines, look at pictures and read stat sheets - seem to consistently complain about the car and give various reasons why they have not purchased yet. HP, price, soft, too fancy, not different enough, too different, etc.

3) Those that have no prior Viper experience - Seem to consistently say the car is great, no issue w/HP or performance, but bigger issue with the Brand and the dealer experience.

So, what strikes me odd from this is those that you would think would be the most loyal to the brand are its worst supporters with the least amount of informed data. They seem very caught up in t he "image" of the Viper as apposed to the actual product. The car is either too fancy, too soft, not enough HP, retro, want bragging rights, blah blah, but yet have no personal experience in driving the car and worst yet, believe since they have a prior Gen, somehow are qualified experts to judge the new car?

I have yet to personally speak with a single person that has driven the car to have the same complaints those that have not. They only speak with praise. I was blown away how much better the car is when I drove it.

Can I ask when folks reply with their thoughts on this post, please first state which category you are in. Have you driven the GenV? (yes or no). Do you own or have owned a prior Gen (yes or no)? Are you truly in the market for a New Viper (Yes or No)? I think the GenV forum should be for those truly interested in the car, but carefully observe above if you think my assumptions are correct. Whenever someone says it needs 700hp, ask "Have you driven the car?"

[KRATEDISEASE]

Category #2. Sat in the Gen 5 , but never driven. I am always in the market for any mind blowing car.

GREAT idea for a thread. Important to disclose ones background first.

[BlknBlu]

I am in category #1. I currently own an 09 ACR with no performance mods. I like everything about the GEN V but i still enjoy my ACR. I have no future plans ot purchase one but have driven several of them. SRT did a great job in my opinion on the car, but struggled in 2013 with it being it's own brand on how the car was marketed to the public and the media. This looks to have changed for the better.

Bruce

[05Commemorative]

I guess I should add my comments as well.

I am category #1. Have a Gen3 vert that I love. I track the cars all of the timeDriven two GenV's. A loaded GTS and a SRT. Both cars huge improvement over my Gen3 and Gen4's and Gen 2's I have driven. Have friends that have all the Gens. I was blown away by the style, the design, the interior, and the performance of the car. It has a strange feel in that the acceleration is very linear vs the big jump the Gen3 has when it hits 4000rpm, but clearly is much faster, more refined, much stiffer and more solid platform, but not "soft" in anyway. Just feels like a car you want to own a lifetime as it will always be special. In fact, I liked it so much, I am seriously considering a coupe when I thought I would only hold out for a vert. It is that good.

[ViperSmith]

The Gen V was my first performance car of any kind. Been in plenty, but never owned. Never driven a Viper before, ever.

It is everything I imagined a Viper would be. Anyone complaining about power, nannies, etc, clearly haven't turned off ESC. The car will still murder you if you want it to and ask it to.

Frankly the crowd of some of the older Vipers is baffling, I truly don't understand why some constantly have to reiterate how much they dislike the car.

As an aside, the dealer purchasing experience to me was miserable locally. If it weren't for Bernie (or Woodhouse if I didn't go through Tomball), I wouldn't have bought one.

The car certainly has its flaws, but what generation of a Viper hasn't LOL

[Newport Viper]

Yes Yes & Yes.

I am 135,000 miles driven now on a 95 & 04

My disappointment comes in the lack of HP to put it into the 700+ club (That would have been an awesome Rag headline)

My disappointment comes from bringing the car back from dead to just equal our biggest rival the ZR1. (I'm cringing about the Z06 numbers at the track TBD)

My disappointment comes from the retro styling. (We have big meets out here in SoCal and, it blends in too much to the Gen2's)

My disappointment comes from my own thoughts of how I was really going to be blown away by it's return.

My biggest worry is that without this car coming out killing everything in it's path, that it will go away again.

However, my car is getting old and based on that alone, I am going to still seriously consider a Vert! (fingers crossed on styling)

[KRATEDISEASE]

The Gen V was my first performance car of any kind. Been in plenty, but never owned. Never driven a Viper before, ever.

It is everything I imagined a Viper would be. Anyone complaining about power, nannies, etc, clearly haven't turned off ESC. The car will still murder you if you want it to and ask it to.

Frankly the crowd of some of the older Vipers is baffling, I truly don't understand why some constantly have to reiterate how much they dislike the car.

As an aside, the dealer purchasing experience to me was miserable locally. If it weren't for Bernie (or Woodhouse if I didn't go through Tomball), I wouldn't have bought one.

The car certainly has its flaws, but what generation of a Viper hasn't LOL

Thank you for disclosing the above. You have to understand that this is your first performance/sports car. If the Viper was my first sports car, i also would think that there is no need for more power. But remember that this is your first.

Just like your first car stereo that had 200 watts and you though that was kicking loud and sufficient, wait until you hear a car stereo with 500 watts. You will never go back to 200 watts again.

You have to understand that HP is like a drug. You constantly need more to get high. And 640 just does not give me a buzz.

[05Commemorative]

Thank you for disclosing the above. You have to understand that this is your first performance/sports car. If the Viper was my first sports car, i also would think that there is no need for more power. But remember that this is your first.

Just like your first car stereo that had 200 watts and you though that was kicking loud and sufficient, wait until you hear a car stereo with 500 watts. You will never go back to 200 watts again.

You have to understand that HP is like a drug. You constantly need more to get high. And 640 just does not give me a buzz.

Krate, you have already stated you have not driven the car. To put someone down who has and tracks it by saying that they don't know enough to want more when you have not even driven the car is a bit odd, right? You do recognize that puts you in an odd position of having little cred on the topic. You don't know what the car feels like with a stated 640hp and 150lbs lighter than prior gen. Sure, all of us crave more power. Imagine for example if (hypothetical), if they had lowered the weight to 2500lbs and kept it at 600hp. Would you have the same argument? I get it, there is never enough, but I do think worth a drive with the car that is lighter, different gearing and more hp, and then more cred comes with the statement.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Krate, you have already stated you have not driven the car. To put someone down who has and tracks it by saying that they don't know enough to want more when you have not even driven the car is a bit odd, right? You do recognize that puts you in an odd position of having little cred on the topic. You don't know what the car feels like with a stated 640hp and 150lbs lighter than prior gen. Sure, all of us crave more power. Imagine for example if (hypothetical), if they had lowered the weight to 2500lbs and kept it at 600hp. Would you have the same argument? I get it, there is never enough, but I do think worth a drive with the car that is lighter, different gearing and more hp, and then more cred comes with the statement.

Good and very valid point.

But only one thing I want to clear up about your above statement. I never ever put ANYONE down in the above quoted post. I never stated that ANYONE does not know enough either.

i am only presenting my point of view. Thats all.

I understand that 99% of gen5 owners would sell their homes first before they would sell their gen5's if they had to choose between the two.

[Shooter]

I've had a S/C Gen III, a Gen IV Aero Coupe, and currently have an 09 ACR.
I have NOT driven a Gen V. I don't like the way it looks, just like people don't like the way the Gen 3/4 SRT's look.
If the TA came with 700 hp, I still wouldn't buy it.
If they make a Gen V ACR that looks like the GT3-R and has over 675 hp...and I can afford it.
I will buy one.

Until then, I'll just have to stumble along with my soon to be 600 rwhp ACR.

[05Commemorative]

Good and very valid point.

But only one thing I want to clear up about your above statement. I never ever put ANYONE down in the above quoted post. I never stated that ANYONE does not know enough either.

i am only presenting my point of view. Thats all.

I understand that 99% of gen5 owners would sell their homes first before they would sell their gen5's if they had to choose between the two.

Gotcha, I interpreted it as you saying, "hey, you have not experience enough high HP cars to know you need/want more." The stereo comment suggested the same thing. But to be accurate in the analogy you presented, you would be the guy that had the 200watt, 300watt and 400watt stereos telling the guy with his first 500watts system he needs more, yet you have never listened to the 500watt system.

[05Commemorative]

I've had a S/C Gen III, a Gen IV Aero Coupe, and currently have an 09 ACR.
I have NOT driven a Gen V. I don't like the way it looks, just like people don't like the way the Gen 3/4 SRT's look.
If the TA came with 700 hp, I still wouldn't buy it.
If they make a Gen V ACR that looks like the GT3-R and has over 675 hp...and I can afford it.
I will buy one.

Until then, I'll just have to stumble along with my soon to be 600 rwhp ACR.

Shooter, I love this straight up and to the point comment. "I don't like the looks". This would be a great example of a miss in my 3 categories above and of course does not require a test drive as who wants to drive something they don't like the looks of. I totally get it.

[slitherv10]

Krate, you have already stated you have not driven the car. To put someone down who has and tracks it by saying that they don't know enough to want more when you have not even driven the car is a bit odd, right? You do recognize that puts you in an odd position of having little cred on the topic. You don't know what the car feels like with a stated 640hp and 150lbs lighter than prior gen. Sure, all of us crave more power. Imagine for example if (hypothetical), if they had lowered the weight to 2500lbs and kept it at 600hp. Would you have the same argument? I get it, there is never enough, but I do think worth a drive with the car that is lighter, different gearing and more hp, and then more cred comes with the statement.

And what credibility does someone who bought their first sports car and very first Viper for that matter have on making any sort of assumptions on how any of us prior owners and owners of sports cars for all our lives have??!!How can he sit there in so many threads and post replies on a topics he doesn't even understand!!
How can he tell a sports car nut like me and Krate for example , how someone feels deep inside about a sports car and how personal we get with them when loyal to the fact. Its like telling a guy who has owned Harleys all his life , how it feels to ride and own a motorcycle and why the new Harley doesn't cut !!

I have to disagree with you there Comm. I love your posts and respect many of your replies, but, this towards Krate is out of line. If you feel this way about his comment , you should feel the same towards Smiths. APPLES to APPLES. Krate in fact knows and feels the car where as Smith bought one because of the dealer experience as he quoted. I would buy one if it was on the other side of the earth. that is the passion I have for this car and why I make comments that I do in prior posts and threads. Its in the blood. You can't change a tigers stripes. Putting on a stripped jacket does not qualify.
I can't believe I sat there and wasted my time responding and listening to his crap after this is his first rodeo..lol..too much man!!

Sorry about my rant but, as I said earlier, if the shoe fits.....

As for my take on your thread , which by the way was needed here to clear up all these nose bleeds.

I am in Category #2

I have stated this before and will again.

This new car is all that plus some over the last Gen's. I have owned only 3 Vipers in the last 5 years and looking for my forth currently. One reason why i frustrated with the New car PERSONALLY.
i was hoping is was good enough in MY OPINION, over my current Gen's. It was not and so it hit me hard as Viperholic. I too was looking for over the top numbers. Total domination among the competition. Never got that. I get it that it is better, but not with the same integrity it had in previous Gens...not for ME anyways.
Ill be honest, I do not buy super cars because of interiors, amenities or paintjobs, I buy them because of their atmosphere. Especially the Viper. Their pure untamed power that beholds it. Maybe times are achangin and i have to realize that things are becoming that way and except it. As when your kid cant make it to university, it disappoints you but, you learn to except it and love them for who they are. that is what some of us need to do with this Car and realize that it may never be what it was or should have been. Period

[05Commemorative]

And what credibility does someone who bought their first sports car and very first Viper for that matter have on making any sort of assumptions on how any of us prior owners and owners of sports cars for all our lives have??!!How can he sit there in so many threads and post replies on a topics he doesn't even understand!!
How can he tell a sports car nut like me and Krate for example , how someone feels deep inside about a sports car and how personal we get with them when loyal to the fact. Its like telling a guy who has owned Harleys all his life , how it feels to ride and own a motorcycle and why the new Harley doesn't cut !!

I have to disagree with you there Comm. I love your posts and respect many of your replies, but, this towards Krate is out of line. If you feel this way about his comment , you should feel the same towards Smiths. APPLES to APPLES. Krate in fact knows and feels the car where as Smith bought one because of the dealer experience as he quoted. I would buy one if it was on the other side of the earth. that is the passion I have for this car and why I make comments that I do in prior posts and threads. Its in the blood. You can't change a tigers stripes. Putting on a stripped jacket does not qualify.
I can't believe I sat there and wasted my time responding and listening to his crap after this is his first rodeo..lol..too much man!!

Sorry about my rant but, as I said earlier, if the shoe fits.....

As for my take on your thread , which by the way was needed here to clear up all these nose bleeds.

I am in Category #2

I have stated this before and will again.

This new car is all that plus some over the last Gen's. I have owned only 3 Vipers in the last 5 years and looking for my forth currently. One reason why i frustrated with the New car PERSONALLY.
i was hoping is was good enough in MY OPINION, over my current Gen's. It was not and so it hit me hard as Viperholic. I too was looking for over the top numbers. Total domination among the competition. Never got that. I get it that it is better, but not with the same integrity it had in previous Gens...not for ME anyways.
Ill be honest, I do not buy super cars because of interiors, amenities or paintjobs, I buy them because of their atmosphere. Especially the Viper. Their pure untamed power that beholds it. Maybe times are achangin and i have to realize that things are becoming that way and except it. As when your kid cant make it to university, it disappoints you but, you learn to except it and love them for who they are. that is what some of us need to do with this Car and realize that it may never be what it was or should have been. Period

Hey, you guys have personal attacks going on and that is for you guys to resolve. I am just pointing out something pretty obvious. Just because one has owned prior gen vipers (myself included), does not mean I somehow know more about what the GenV is until I drive it. That is really just a fact. A GenV owner that has never driven prior Gens equally can't state how good or bad the prior Gens are. These two statement are true for the performance/driving aspects. Of course looks and comfort can be quickly determined by sitting and viewing them. So, all I am suggesting is if people are talking performance, you have drive them to have cred on the comments. It is not enough (in my opinion) to read a magazine or see a HP # to be an expert.

The stereo example is a great one. If I have a 500watt system, do I really care about what the 200 and 300watt systems were before? If I have a 300watt system, can I really judge the 500watt system before I have listened to it? I have no intent on attacking anyone, and love seeing everyone's opinions, but lets at least have them be informed opinions, or at a minimum opinions in context of the individuals experiences.

[Drummerviper]

I almost hate to post this, but seemed like a worthy item to get out directly.

I have been reading the posts on here and other forum for GenV for the past year. I have noticed the following three category observations:

1) Those that have purchased or at least driven the GenV - speak very highly of the car. They have minor issues that are represented by personal experience and facts, but do a good job of stating their experiences.

2) Those prior gen owners that read magazines, look at pictures and read stat sheets - seem to consistently complain about the car and give various reasons why they have not purchased yet. HP, price, soft, too fancy, not different enough, too different, etc.

3) Those that have no prior Viper experience - Seem to consistently say the car is great, no issue w/HP or performance, but bigger issue with the Brand and the dealer experience.

So, what strikes me odd from this is those that you would think would be the most loyal to the brand are its worst supporters with the least amount of informed data. They seem very caught up in t he "image" of the Viper as apposed to the actual product. The car is either too fancy, too soft, not enough HP, retro, want bragging rights, blah blah, but yet have no personal experience in driving the car and worst yet, believe since they have a prior Gen, somehow are qualified experts to judge the new car?

I have yet to personally speak with a single person that has driven the car to have the same complaints those that have not. They only speak with praise. I was blown away how much better the car is when I drove it.

Can I ask when folks reply with their thoughts on this post, please first state which category you are in. Have you driven the GenV? (yes or no). Do you own or have owned a prior Gen (yes or no)? Are you truly in the market for a New Viper (Yes or No)? I think the GenV forum should be for those truly interested in the car, but carefully observe above if you think my assumptions are correct. Whenever someone says it needs 700hp, ask "Have you driven the car?"

Welcome to every new car or generation of every car ever made.

[KRATEDISEASE]

If I have a 500watt system, do I really care about what the 200 and 300watt systems were before? If I have a 300watt system, can I really judge the 500watt system before I have listened to it?

let me give you a better example. Horsepower is like money. More = Better.

Its NOT about judging or passing judgement on those who have more whether it is wealth or Horsepower. ITS SIMPLY KNOWING that I am WANTING MORE.

Its a universal common knowledge that more =better when it comes to wealth. Same holds true with Horsepower.

I surely know that being a billionaire is much better than being a millionaire without ever experiencing being a billionaire.

And I am sure that a Viper with 750Hp would be better than a Viper with 640HP.

[BlknBlu]

I think the Buggatti Veyron is underpowered.

Bruce

[Policy Limits]

I love going to a five star restaurant and hearing the wait staff rant and rave over a particular entree. When I ask if they've eaten it themselves if they respond affirmatively, then their opinion has credibility and I consider ordering it. If however they say they haven't actually had it but it looks good, zero credibility and ill even ask him or her how they can even make such a claim. If you understand the analogy, please close the thread.

[Space Truckin]

I would sum my experiences as ...

Gen I wow
Gen II wow !!!
Gen III yowser
Gen IV oh my gosh
Gen V NAILED IT!!!

JM2C

[Revolution]

I almost hate to post this, but seemed like a worthy item to get out directly.

I have been reading the posts on here and other forum for GenV for the past year. I have noticed the following three category observations:

1) Those that have purchased or at least driven the GenV - speak very highly of the car. They have minor issues that are represented by personal experience and facts, but do a good job of stating their experiences.

2) Those prior gen owners that read magazines, look at pictures and read stat sheets - seem to consistently complain about the car and give various reasons why they have not purchased yet. HP, price, soft, too fancy, not different enough, too different, etc.

3) Those that have no prior Viper experience - Seem to consistently say the car is great, no issue w/HP or performance, but bigger issue with the Brand and the dealer experience.

So, what strikes me odd from this is those that you would think would be the most loyal to the brand are its worst supporters with the least amount of informed data. They seem very caught up in t he "image" of the Viper as apposed to the actual product. The car is either too fancy, too soft, not enough HP, retro, want bragging rights, blah blah, but yet have no personal experience in driving the car and worst yet, believe since they have a prior Gen, somehow are qualified experts to judge the new car?

I have yet to personally speak with a single person that has driven the car to have the same complaints those that have not. They only speak with praise. I was blown away how much better the car is when I drove it.

Can I ask when folks reply with their thoughts on this post, please first state which category you are in. Have you driven the GenV? (yes or no). Do you own or have owned a prior Gen (yes or no)? Are you truly in the market for a New Viper (Yes or No)? I think the GenV forum should be for those truly interested in the car, but carefully observe above if you think my assumptions are correct. Whenever someone says it needs 700hp, ask "Have you driven the car?"

Category #2 because of the soft line and huge difference for me to upgrade to a Gen 5. I'm already up around the 700hp mark and think the 50g difference isn't even remotely close to worth it for me, especially to a car that doesn't pop visually to me.

[mikesax]

Category 1-Loved my Gen 4 vert-LOVE my Gen V GTS-2nd one arriving next month! The Viper just keeps getting better and better!

[Drummerviper]

63 Vette "that's not a Vette and that split window looks awful." 2014 huge collector car
05 Vette " I'll keep my C5 no damn Vette should have exposed headlights"
03 Viper. " looks like an S2000

But I have to say it is really odd for a car to do a retro version of itself like the Gen 5. I know it is a wonderful car. I have driven it. Just not happy with the way it was done or introduced. More power to anyone who owns one-- enjoy it.

In the end, it is Viper and exclusive.

[Nine Ball]

Looks are subjective. I don't find any Viper, of any generation, to be ugly in that category. The cars all share the same lines and theme, so anyone pointing out warts on any generation is just being nit-picky. The general public can't tell new Vipers from old Vipers, just like most people can't tell 911's apart. That is a good thing, to me. When a car looks good, and has an iconic heritage of design characteristics, nothing wrong with keeping them.

Performance-wise, of course everyone "wants" more horsepower. Want and need are two different things. Nobody here "needs" a Viper. But, most of the guys I know that are buying new $100,000+ toys tend to have more than one toy. My other Viper is around 1,200 hp. Yet, I still "settled" for this 640hp Gen 5 without a problem. I like driving both cars for different reasons. I don't feel the need to make my Gen 5 as fast as my Gen 3 is. I'm thoroughly enjoying it at stock power levels. Just put another 200 miles on it today.

[Newport Viper]

let me give you a better example. Horsepower is like money. More = Better.

Yes! It's like those kids on the AT&T commercials. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZh105_r2Qk These threads have been like when the kid says Ten (640)... Like WTF... Same as the guys that invested $ in the GenV trying to defend 640 like it's enough (Ten). No way it's ever enough. Hey we are all Viper guys/gals we all know it's not enough!

[johniew398]

Category I.

All I know is that I LOVE IT!