Grinding into 1st gear 2017 GTS

[One Viper Bite]

Thanks Bill. Have appt. with dealership on 12th soonest they can take me. Never tried to jam into gear. Problem regardless of temp..again, only when downshifting into 1st when car is rolling....once car is stopped it down shifts into 1st smoothly....1st to 2nd is also fine. Just looking for opinions as to what may be causing problem since local dealer service manager cant seem to find the office phone to return my calls.

Can I ask at what speed you are waiting to downshift into 1st?

Also, have you also tried rev matching by blipping the throttle before shifting into 1st?

[DonatoEng]

From your description of grinding into 1st, it sounds like you have an issue with the 1st gear blocker rings.
All 6060 Viper transmissions are fully synchronized including reverse. 1st and 2nd are triple cone and 3-6 are double cone. There was an issue with 2nd in the Gen IV Vipers and Challengers with heavy grinding when cold that was traced to the brass/bronze blocker rings not bedding in and slipping. The fix was to utilize the triple Carbon lined blocker rings and the others remained brass/bronze lined. The upgrade is to use the hybird carbon/bronze lined blocker rings for improved shifting both up and down in gears 1, 3-6.

The other issue of stalling in a Gen V has to do with the revised gear ratios starting in 2013. 1st gear went from a 2.66 to a 2.26 ratio. The other item that adds to that is the lighter flywheel which took away from the inertia helping to starting to move the car at light throttle. The Gen V set up is great for road track events at the cost of low speed driveability.
I have converted several Gen V transmissions back to the Gen IV 2.66 1st gear set to the delight of the owners.

John

[AZTVR]

My question is:
-why does it shift perfectly from 1st to 2nd, but not 2nd to 1st?....unless car completely stopped then no problem going from 2nd to 1st.

There are two different synchro ring assemblies involved. One acting on 1st gear engagement and a different one working with second gear. John Donato describes them both as being triple cone style. I think that they both use the same part #; but, I'm not certain.

[ACRucrazy]

From your description of grinding into 1st, it sounds like you have an issue with the 1st gear blocker rings.
All 6060 Viper transmissions are fully synchronized including reverse. 1st and 2nd are triple cone and 3-6 are double cone. There was an issue with 2nd in the Gen IV Vipers and Challengers with heavy grinding when cold that was traced to the brass/bronze blocker rings not bedding in and slipping. The fix was to utilize the triple Carbon lined blocker rings and the others remained brass/bronze lined. The upgrade is to use the hybird carbon/bronze lined blocker rings for improved shifting both up and down in gears 1, 3-6.

The other issue of stalling in a Gen V has to do with the revised gear ratios starting in 2013. 1st gear went from a 2.66 to a 2.26 ratio. The other item that adds to that is the lighter flywheel which took away from the inertia helping to starting to move the car at light throttle. The Gen V set up is great for road track events at the cost of low speed driveability.
I have converted several Gen V transmissions back to the Gen IV 2.66 1st gear set to the delight of the owners.

John

I was waiting for you to chime in. Good stuff!

[CerBlue17]

Can I ask at what speed you are waiting to downshift into 1st?

Also, have you also tried rev matching by blipping the throttle before shifting into 1st?

Rex: Happens at any speed...never tried over 30mph. Yes, tried rev matching and double clutching.

[CerBlue17]

From your description of grinding into 1st, it sounds like you have an issue with the 1st gear blocker rings.
All 6060 Viper transmissions are fully synchronized including reverse. 1st and 2nd are triple cone and 3-6 are double cone. There was an issue with 2nd in the Gen IV Vipers and Challengers with heavy grinding when cold that was traced to the brass/bronze blocker rings not bedding in and slipping. The fix was to utilize the triple Carbon lined blocker rings and the others remained brass/bronze lined. The upgrade is to use the hybird carbon/bronze lined blocker rings for improved shifting both up and down in gears 1, 3-6.

The other issue of stalling in a Gen V has to do with the revised gear ratios starting in 2013. 1st gear went from a 2.66 to a 2.26 ratio. The other item that adds to that is the lighter flywheel which took away from the inertia helping to starting to move the car at light throttle. The Gen V set up is great for road track events at the cost of low speed driveability.
I have converted several Gen V transmissions back to the Gen IV 2.66 1st gear set to the delight of the owners.

John

Thanks John..so it's possible it's 1st gear blocker rings even though it shifts fine in other direction from 1st into 2nd?

[ssjcreeper]

The ACR I just purchased...

Wait, what?!?! Ryan you bought an ACR?!

[CerBlue17]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

[99Vipers]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

The story above is one of the biggest reason why I would like to sell my Viper but there is no way I can get close (within 15K) to what I have in it. The death of the Viper can be attributed to a number of circumstances but 3 major things stick out to me since the Gen V was released: 1)A marketing team that couldn't sell ice in Death Valley, 2) A multitude of major and minor QC issues that have plagued the Gen V throughout its production backed by a company that used its clients as guinea-pigs to root out major engine issues.3) A nationwide dealer network that was/is clueless to fix said problems on a 100k+ car
Its not even officially out of production and yet some parts are on back-order forever. Whats going to happen 5-10 years from now when someone bends their precious ACR and has to find a new landing strip/wing, 6 vent hood, and other parts? Extended warranty or not you are screwed, and please don't start with its a hand built racer,lol....
I really applaud the men and women who designed and built the Gen.V because in my opinion it IS the best Viper ever made but its support from the other factions of Dodge is terrible.
Rant Over

[Topplayer]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

Which dealer are you going to? Manhattan? Try CJ MEDOWLANDS DODGE its far but worth it trust me!

[donk_316]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

[Stealth78]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

If you're going to be a douche then double check your English grammar. You should have said "The best part is when you misspelled genius" OR "The best part is when you spelled genius wrong". I suppose you are the person who also says you need to unthaw something when it's already frozen!?!?

[donk_316]

Ah, valid point my fellow grammar Nazi. Thanks for the clarification!

Only peasants say "unthaw". Haha!

[7TH_SIGN]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Are you trying to hint to us that we should hide past and current issues with a car we are selling? If so that's really disappointing to hear on a public forum. The OP isn't "crying" to the masses. He is just sharing his experience with a certain dealership and Dodge. If anything it at the very least gives others in his area the heads up to avoid this dealership imo.

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

Build a relationship? What are owners supposed to take their service manager out for dinner and dates? Maybe an all inclusive exotic beach getaway? How about Dodge dealerships do their job and stand behind a failed product? Some may not understand what the OP is going through with all the frustration but I for one do. Prefix was the only one to come through for me when Dodge was nowhere to be seen and I had to do most of the leg work. Much more than a consumer should on a warrantied vehicle.

[swexlin]

The story above is one of the biggest reason why I would like to sell my Viper but there is no way I can get close (within 15K) to what I have in it. The death of the Viper can be attributed to a number of circumstances but 3 major things stick out to me since the Gen V was released: 1)A marketing team that couldn't sell ice in Death Valley, 2) A multitude of major and minor QC issues that have plagued the Gen V throughout its production backed by a company that used its clients as guinea-pigs to root out major engine issues.3) A nationwide dealer network that was/is clueless to fix said problems on a 100k+ car
Its not even officially out of production and yet some parts are on back-order forever. Whats going to happen 5-10 years from now when someone bends their precious ACR and has to find a new landing strip/wing, 6 vent hood, and other parts? Extended warranty or not you are screwed, and please don't start with its a hand built racer,lol....
I really applaud the men and women who designed and built the Gen.V because in my opinion it IS the best Viper ever made but its support from the other factions of Dodge is terrible.
Rant Over

Agree 1000%!

[AZTVR]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha! .

Just get the issue delt with.

*dealt

[jaxtk]

I dont believe 1st has a synchro...

Wrong!

[CerBlue17]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

Donk..get some sleep buddy!! I was simply summarizing my experience with the dealer recommended by SRT.

Thank you for your suggestion to deal with the issue and move on....because here in New York we are very patient people and wouldn't want to rush things along

[One Viper Bite]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

We're here to share information...the good and the bad. Because it is useful to other owners who may experience a similar issue or experience.

Now why don't you go back to arguing with people about TA Groups vs. TA Package cars? Because we all love to see you go on FOR EVER about that moot point on the INTERNET.

[ACRSNK]

Hope you can get your car squared away soon. Never fun to have such a nice car and have to deal with issues like this. Keep us posted on your progress and experiences.

[CerBlue17]

Although Dodge approved warranty, I pulled car from dealer and will be bringing elsewhere. Most likely to CJ at Carmel Dodge. Some of process will have to be repeated. Basically Dodge will determine to repair or replace after transmission is disassembled and inspected.

[CerBlue17]

Update... brought car to CJ at meadowland of Carmel. Dodge warranty sent a new transmission . Excellent service and loaner car. Install went perfect and had car back in couple weeks. Thanks CJ!

[texasram]

Is there any problem pushing through the resistance that the transmission provides when you try to downshift into a lower gear because youre anticipating that by the time you release the clutch youll be at an acceptable speed for the lower gear?

[sadil]

I just experienced this issue. The car is grinding going into first. When I coast to a stop, going into first grinds hard. Did anyone else aside from the OP experience this?

[Jack B]

I just experienced this issue. The car is grinding going into first. When I coast to a stop, going into first grinds hard. Did anyone else aside from the OP experience this?

Time to replace the clutch or the synchro"s