PCV Valve and engine pressure issues Advice needed ASAP

[Fatboy 18]

Ok Need some help now, I fear I may have some big engine problems.......

First off a bit of history, I recently fitted a non vented Oil catch can. When I changed out the thermostat I removed the so called PCV Valve for inspection. What I found was a large black rubber grommet with a hole in the centre, then a hard Black plastic ribbed tube insert fitted in the middle. No Valve as such, just a straight piece of ribbed hard plastic tube.
I connected a new rubber pipe to this tube insert and then that tube goes directly to the catch can. The second tube from the catch can goes to a T piece on the front of the intake manifold.





The issue I am now having is that there is pressure in the engine and oil is being forced out around the PCV Valve grommet and filling up the chambers under the intake manifold. Not loads of oil, more like an egg cup full.

Oil pressure on the gauge is still pretty good.

Second problem.
Weekend past I was giving Joy rides on the UK Top Gear track, now in the past when under heavy braking, oil used to surge forward to the front of the valve covers and then the tube connecting the front valve covers went back into the LH intake tube just in front of the throttle body and the oil was burnt off, this would result in a large plume of smoke exiting the rear exhaust making you think I had blown the engine!

So I fitted a new (Vented) Secondary Oil catch can. (this worked ok with normal driving) I fitted a tube off of each valve cover into the catch can and there was a small filter on top of the can, Under race conditions the pressure in the engine is forcing the oil vapour in the catch can through the filter and covering the engine bay in OIL! (Its not condensing in the catch can).
Please see pics of the set up.
Note: Small red can at bottom of picture is PCV Valve catch can, Larger can with Filter on top (top of picture) is for Valve covers


What to do next?
Check Cylinder compressions? Piston rings? Oil rings?
Im worried as I would be in deep trouble if the engine is on the way out!
86K on the engine.

Thanks

[Boosted Motorsports]

Sounds more like an issue with your catch can setup and it is not allowing flow to the can. If your can was filling up excessively then maybe? But if its having to force the pressure/oil out of that grommet connection I would look first to see if that is a tight connection you have there or if there is some sort of blockage with your lines/can.

With the connection from that grommet to your line you made, is there a decent diameter or is it restricted?

[98RedGTS]

OK, may sounds stupid, but some catch cans have to be installed in a certain flow pattern (valves in them). Is it possible that something is hooked up backwards and not allowing the air to travel the full path that it should be allowed to make?

[Fatboy 18]

Sounds more like an issue with your catch can setup and it is not allowing flow to the can. If your can was filling up excessively then maybe? But if its having to force the pressure/oil out of that grommet connection I would look first to see if that is a tight connection you have there or if there is some sort of blockage with your lines/can.

With the connection from that grommet to your line you made, is there a decent diameter or is it restricted?

No nothing is restricted, the small catch can does catch oil but not loads, (I empty it / check it every couple of weeks)

RE: The Valve cover catch can, What I did the following day at the Top Gear track was to link a pipe directly between the two valve covers bypassing the can and that cured the mess in the engine bay. the oil had saturated the lower right hand suspension wish bone and inner wheel! I cleaned it all up with brake cleaner and carried on giving rides.

[Fatboy 18]

OK, may sounds stupid, but some catch cans have to be installed in a certain flow pattern (valves in them). Is it possible that something is hooked up backwards and not allowing the air to travel the full path that it should be allowed to make?

There are no valves in the catch cans and there is no Valve of any sort in the so called PCV Valve, just a hollow hard black plastic tube!

I even upgraded both cans by fitting Aeroquip fittings and stronger braided lines

[Boosted Motorsports]

I'm still pointing to the lines/can restricting flow and its trying to find the path of least resistance to vent to.

That faux steel braided rubber hose is the same diameter of the plastic nipple by the looks of it? Did you shove the rubber hose inside the plastic grommet or how is it connected? Any pictures of the inside of the plastic barb to see if it has restriction?

[Fatboy 18]

I'm still pointing to the lines/can restricting flow and its trying to find the path of least resistance to vent to.

That faux steel braided rubber hose is the same diameter of the plastic nipple by the looks of it? Did you shove the rubber hose inside the plastic grommet or how is it connected? Any pictures of the inside of the plastic barb to see if it has restriction?

The braided hose sleeves over the ribbed black plastic tube then I have used a Hose finisher clamp to pinch the hose onto the black plastic tube.

Maybe the larger rubber grommet requires replacement as it did seem a little hard when I put it back in position?
BUT, The rubber grommet is in the Top of the engine so OIL is being forced out!

[Boosted Motorsports]

Do you have everything apart right now? If so grab that hose where it meets the grommet and try blowing through it to see if it flows freely?

[ACR_VP]

On a Gen 2 you'll probably catch almost everything from the PCV, lots of blow by on the gen 2 engines. For some perspective, I'd catch about a quarter of a quart of oil in my can hooked up to my PCV from a 30 minute track session, and practically nothing out of the valve covers. The PCV, isn't a valve btw, it's a vent. Chrysler even calls it the crank case vent (ccv). Should be free flowing.

[Fatboy 18]

On a Gen 2 you'll probably catch almost everything from the PCV, lots of blow by on the gen 2 engines. For some perspective, I'd catch about a quarter of a quart of oil in my can hooked up to my PCV from a 30 minute track session, and practically nothing out of the valve covers. The PCV, isn't a valve btw, it's a vent. Chrysler even calls it the crank case vent (ccv). Should be free flowing.

Thanks for clearing up the so called Valve issue, yes the pipe is not blocked in any way and neither are the pipes, I do catch oil from the CCV in the can.

But I also get a hell of a lot of oil from the valve covers!

[LifeIsGood]

I've been told the plastic tee in the top of my picture is a metered fitting. It looks like you've removed it. I don't know if that could be part of your issue.

[Lemay88]

I'm no expect but I'll give you my 2 cents...never know...
By looking at the photo of the braided hose connected to the grommet, I would suggest that the bent is too much and that the flow is not at its best thous creating the high pressure in the engine.
Putting back the plastic elbow would be a easy/ cheap solution to try.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Good luck

Ben

[Fatboy 18]

I've been told the plastic tee in the top of my picture is a metered fitting. It looks like you've removed it. I don't know if that could be part of your issue.

Thanks Ken, Yes I replaced that plastic fitting with a metal T piece.

[Fatboy 18]

I'm no expect but I'll give you my 2 cents...never know...
By looking at the photo of the braided hose connected to the grommet, I would suggest that the bent is too much and that the flow is not at its best thous creating the high pressure in the engine.
Putting back the plastic elbow would be a easy/ cheap solution to try.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Good luck

Ben

Hi Ben,
That braided line is not the usual aeroquip line, its flexible plumbing line and there is a lot of slack between the can and the CCV (that picture was taken before the line was attached to the can, so yes it does look a little bent in the picture)

[ViperTony]

The issue I am now having is that there is pressure in the engine and oil is being forced out around the PCV Valve grommet and filling up the chambers under the intake manifold. Not loads of oil, more like an egg cup full.

Did this condition exist before you installed an inline catch can between the intake and PCV valve? My guess is your intake runners were oiled up pretty good prior to the catch can.

So I fitted a new (Vented) Secondary Oil catch can. (this worked ok with normal driving) I fitted a tube off of each valve cover into the catch can and there was a small filter on top of the can, Under race conditions the pressure in the engine is forcing the oil vapour in the catch can through the filter and covering the engine bay in OIL! (Its not condensing in the catch can).

If none of the lines are blocked I'm guessing it's excessive blow by that probably existed before but didn't notice it until you installed the cans. The oil would make it's way into the intake runners and intake ports on the cylinder heads. I'd perform a cylinder pressure and leak down test, can't hurt. I ran a similar setup as yours but never caught any oil from the valve covers, caught some oil from the CCV on track days.

[Fatboy 18]

Hi Tony, yes the condition did exist before, (Not the oil leaking into the engine valley) but The car did used to smoke really bad under heavy braking and engine decell
Watch this video from le mans before fitting the oil catch can
Start it at 3.05

[ACR_VP]

What does the can look like that your crank vent is going through? Does it have a mesh inside to actually catch any oil? Like my moroso unit 5koHoAOl.jpg
That's looks like too much oil on a simple decel to just be from blow by unless you have some really really bad rings. The can hooked up to the crank case should be more of an "air/oil" separator, and you get what you pay for here, good units work very well and cheap ebay ones just don't (the cheap ones also use steel wool that can enter the engine vs. a chainmail mesh like my moroso unit). The vented can hooked up to your valve covers on the other hand can be an ebay special that doesn't really matter since you aren't feeding it back into the intake manifold.

From the video you posted you are sucking back in a lot of oil. Either the can was full, not doing anything, or you are filling your pan with too much oil and it's straight sucking all oil (vs blow-by mist) up the crankcase vent. Also for you to be getting that much out of the valve covers I would question if the baffles are in place. To be clear driving around town for an entire summer I would catch nothing at all out of my valve covers, and for an entire summer maybe a few ounces out of the can hooked up to the crank vent. Track day's I'd catch about a 1/4 of a quart for crank case after a 30 minute session (with a ton of engine braking), and an ounce if that out of the valve covers. I also have a gated oil pan so that might help somewhat who knows.

[03evoIII]

I vent my CCV directly to a large vented 2-port catch can using one port for that and run my valve cover lines into a T fitting and run that line into the other port of the catch can. No issues at all for me.

[Fatboy 18]

What does the can look like that your crank vent is going through? Does it have a mesh inside to actually catch any oil? Like my moroso unit 5koHoAOl.jpg
That's looks like too much oil on a simple decel to just be from blow by unless you have some really really bad rings. The can hooked up to the crank case should be more of an "air/oil" separator, and you get what you pay for here, good units work very well and cheap ebay ones just don't (the cheap ones also use steel wool that can enter the engine vs. a chainmail mesh like my moroso unit). The vented can hooked up to your valve covers on the other hand can be an ebay special that doesn't really matter since you aren't feeding it back into the intake manifold.

From the video you posted you are sucking back in a lot of oil. Either the can was full, not doing anything, or you are filling your pan with too much oil and it's straight sucking all oil (vs blow-by mist) up the crankcase vent. Also for you to be getting that much out of the valve covers I would question if the baffles are in place. To be clear driving around town for an entire summer I would catch nothing at all out of my valve covers, and for an entire summer maybe a few ounces out of the can hooked up to the crank vent. Track day's I'd catch about a 1/4 of a quart for crank case after a 30 minute session (with a ton of engine braking), and an ounce if that out of the valve covers. I also have a gated oil pan so that might help somewhat who knows.

OK there is beginning to be some confusion in this thread......
The Video I posted was before I fitted any kind of catch cans! It is because of that Video that the first can I fitted was a CCV Catch can. The can is unvented and has two ports on it, the lower port is the feed from the ccv and the upper port goes to a Aluminium T piece which then connects to the two lower ports on the intake manifold. So if you were to look at the picture Life is good posted earlier
Its exactly the same set up but there is a catch can inserted between the line from the ccv grommet and the plastic T piece. So the vacuum in the inlet manifold should be drawing the oil through the catch can, And as I also said the can IS catching oil.

My next plan is to do a leak down test and a compression test

[dave6666]

Lots of upgrades here yet nothing fixed. Back to engineering.........................

[Fatboy 18]

Lots of upgrades here yet nothing fixed. Back to engineering.........................

Dave, could not agree more, you look at peoples set ups on forums and think you are making improvements, I will say that since fitting the catch can it did indeed stop the big plumes of smoke coming out of the rear end under heavy braking. But now I am getting oil leaks which I believe is because of excess engine pressure, possibly caused by worn rings? Or something else?

[Fatboy 18]

Short video of accelerating off the start line at the Top gear track weekend past, you see when I change into second a shot puff of smoke
(click on picture for video)

VID-20170627-WA0002 by Fatboy 18, on Flickr

[ACR_VP]

Short video of accelerating off the start line at the Top gear track weekend past, you see when I change into second a shot puff of smoke
(click on picture for video)

If you get a puff of smoke while accelerating and switching gears then you are either putting too much oil in the pan when you change it, or you have some bad rings, no two ways about it. There's nothing else that would cause that, even routing both the ccv and valve covers directly to the intake shouldn't produce enough blow by to do that. Before you do a compression test I would just look at your spark plugs.

[Fatboy 18]

Whats the spark plugs going to tell me?

[SlowPoke McGee]

If you get a puff of smoke while accelerating and switching gears then you are either putting too much oil in the pan when you change it, or you have some bad rings, no two ways about it. There's nothing else that would cause that, even routing both the ccv and valve covers directly to the intake shouldn't produce enough blow by to do that. Before you do a compression test I would just look at your spark plugs.

Could be valve seals/guides too. But yeah this don't sound good. Would be curious how much air you have coming out when you remove oil filler compared to a similar Viper when revving up at neutral.