Gen V can you heel toe

[dhx]

I'm trying to learn to heal toe. I understand the concept, but my brake pedal sticks out so much further than my gas pedal that the only way to get them level is to be braking almost to the max. I've found that I can't naturally twist my ankle to the angle needed to blip the throttle, and that even when the pedal is down further I still struggle to move my ankle the way i've been shown. Am I just inexperienced, or lazy, or born with messed up ankles

[sharmut]

Using the gas pedal extension helps bring the brake and gas pedal closer to the same level. Took some adjustment with the pedals at a closer plane.
http://www.ipsco.org/Viper_files/SRT...sion%20Kit.htm

I found the same limitation with rotating my ankle to catch the gas with my heel. Instead I use half of my foot on the brake and roll the right side to catch the gas.

[FrankBarba]

Some guys are starting to learn left foot breaking....

[stradman]

Its actually a misnomer. Its more like Toe 'n' side footing as Sharmut has described. I don't think anyone actually heel and toe's per say as name infers. The IPSCO extension is a must....

[13COBRA]

Some guys are starting to learn left foot breaking....

I've tried that....felt like a fish out of water. Haha

[stradman]

I've tried that....felt like a fish out of water. Haha

Its just a question of getting used to it really. Best way to learn is to practice on the road and use your left foot for braking. Initially whens its safe and progressively more and more. Once you've gotten used to it, its a cinch and can occasionally be helpful in tucking in the front when the car pushes-in which case you are using the throttle and brake at the same time more or less.

[Boosted Motorsports]

I've been getting pretty good at this lately and I think my OEM pedals are harder to do this than you guys. Heel-Toe as the name suggests is a little misleading. I've seen some Japanese drivers with very small feet actually use their heel and toe but most of us it is just not possible.

Instead position your foot so that the main joint of your big toe is what you are applying braking with. Once you get comfortable braking with your big toe hanging "above the actual pedal" you will find your heel is floating and available. Then you can use a combination of the outside of your foot/heel to blip the throttle to rev-match.

Check out this video for what I mean. Notice his toes are not touching the brake pedal and actually above it.

[stradman]

Having said that Heel and toeing is a dying art what with all the flappy paddle automated gearboxes......

[GTS Dean]

Bondurant teaches heel & toe downshifting where you actually put your heel on the gas pedal and toes on the brake pedal. It's very odd at first, but it works for me and I never have my foot slip off and get between the pedals.

[Racingswh]

Heel is on the floor near the accelerator. Left side ball of your foot is on the brake. Brake is depressed. Use heel and right side of your foot to blip the throttle. If you are catching too much of the throttle as you depress the brake move your foot further onto the brake.

Here's heel and toe downshifting by one of the best. See how he moves the bottom right side of his foot over to blip the throttle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyM-egecTlw

Also notice he uses his left foot to pump the brakes pistons against the rotors but he does not left foot brake. Most people that do it aren't any faster using their left foot than they are using their right on the brakes.

In a flappy paddle car I never use my right foot to brake simply because the transitions to power are smoother and faster using my left foot to brake. I am no quicker however using left foot braking in a MN trans car.

[LmeaViper]

I have done it both ways and to be honest (for me at least) it seems like a harder car than most to do it on. I usually go to rolling the foot method as the pedals are really close together. I think part of the reason is the brake pedal is pretty stiff on our cars and doesn't take massive amount of pressure to operate compared to other cars I drove in the past. Also the IPSCO pedal mod helped.

[Exhlr8n]

Anyone try the "Blip Shift" Box that was posted awhile back?

[GTS-14]

Used the IPSCO pedal extension to learn practising on the street but on the track with hard braking I'd catch the accelerator on occasion. Felt like braking on a glass surface. Anyways once I got comfortable heel toeing switched back to an extensionless gas pedal.

[stradman]

Heel is on the floor near the accelerator. Left side ball of your foot is on the brake. Brake is depressed. Use heel and right side of your foot to blip the throttle. If you are catching too much of the throttle as you depress the brake move your foot further onto the brake.

Here's heel and toe downshifting by one of the best. See how he moves the bottom right side of his foot over to blip the throttle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyM-egecTlw

Also notice he uses his left foot to pump the brakes pistons against the rotors but he does not left foot brake. Most people that do it aren't any faster using their left foot than they are using their right on the brakes.

In a flappy paddle car I never use my right foot to brake simply because the transitions to power are smoother and faster using my left foot to brake. I am no quicker however using left foot braking in a MN trans car.

I'm afraid I can't see jack of that guys feet in the video. However if you want to see the best formula 1 has ever seen do it, here is Ayrton Senna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g
As you can see he rolls the side of the foot mainly.

[FSTENUF]

I did the Bondurant school for 2 days. Heel toe was one of my biggest reasons for going. The foot well in a ACR is smaller then the foot well in a Challenger. It is much easier to heel toe a ACR. Ball of foot on brake last 2 toes hit the gas. 20 minutes up and down the front straight down shifting and you do it on auto pilot.

[dhx]

I actually can't roll my foot onto the accelerator in this car. Perhaps with the extension I can, but I can't even come close, even while braking. I don't know if it's the way this car is, or my natural limitation.

[Angleiron]

Bondurant teaches heel & toe downshifting where you actually put your heel on the gas pedal and toes on the brake pedal. It's very odd at first, but it works for me and I never have my foot slip off and get between the pedals.

When I was there I was told to use the ball of my foot on the brake so that only the left 1/2 was braking. When you wanted to blip the throttle do not move your foot but instead just kick/move your knee to the right. This puts the other 1/2 of the foot onto the gas pedal, and it was easier to do (for me at least). Do not have your heal resting on the floor.

[Racingswh]

I'm afraid I can't see jack of that guys feet in the video. However if you want to see the best formula 1 has ever seen do it, here is Ayrton Senna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g
As you can see he rolls the side of the foot mainly.

Seen it many times. Top left of the foot on the brake. Lower right side hitting the gas. He wouldn't be able to drive the Viper in those shoes. lol!!

A nice view of H & T

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWSyrqEnE4

Left Foot braking. He doesn't have to use the clutch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOjQkAj6r04

[Racingswh]

I actually can't roll my foot onto the accelerator in this car. Perhaps with the extension I can, but I can't even come close, even while braking. I don't know if it's the way this car is, or my natural limitation.

If you're trying to do it on the street it can be difficult. The brake pedal is up too high in many cases and the brake pressure required to slow the car normally isn't enough. Need real brake pressure to get the brake pedal even with the accelerator which makes it much easier.

[dmann]

I think its a little harder on these cars as i didnt have any problems on my last Z06. If you have big feet its even harder(like having flippers lol) and not to mention the pedal box in a viper being a little tight.
I am going to be working on left foot braking, especially for straights that i don't have to downshift.

[dhx]

If you're trying to do it on the street it can be difficult. The brake pedal is up too high in many cases and the brake pressure required to slow the car normally isn't enough. Need real brake pressure to get the brake pedal even with the accelerator which makes it much easier.

Good point, maybe ill go out late at night and see what I can do

[Racingswh]

Good point, maybe ill go out late at night and see what I can do

I learned to heel and toe in my garage with the car off as well as back in the Jim Russell series in 1991 again with the car off. Those little formula cars had a non synchromesh gear box and you had to do it to match revs for a decent downchange. I did it with my eyes closed and visualized the track. It helped me with the proper mechanics and no possibility of an over rev.

The pedal placement in a Viper is challenging. If you do not do it well in one don't feel bad for a moment. I commend you for trying to learn on one. I suggest you get the mechanics and timing down with the car off. It will appreciate your kindness.

[LmeaViper]

Seen it many times. Top left of the foot on the brake. Lower right side hitting the gas. He wouldn't be able to drive the Viper in those shoes. lol!!


Left Foot braking. He doesn't have to use the clutch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOjQkAj6r04

You know anyone who does this in a Viper though?

[Racingswh]

You know anyone who does this in a Viper though?

Left foot brake without using the clutch? Not that I know of unless it's a sequential like in a Comp Coupe. Someone that drives one could better answer that question.

My point of the video was to point out that you can left foot brake easily if you do not have to use the clutch.

Much, much harder to left foot brake when you have to use the clutch. The variation in pressure needed to use either pedal is hard to compensate for in a blink. You press the clutch all the way in. You press the brake with varying degrees of pressure. Asking your left leg to do both is tough, at least for me.

Even in clutchless paddle shift cars some of the best drivers in the world use their right foot to brake.

Lastly if you were referring to shifting without clutching our Viper transmissions won't like that for long. Can it be done? Sure. I personally have never seen a performance benefit that would outweigh the cost of the transmission repair.

[LmeaViper]

When I was there I was told to use the ball of my foot on the brake so that only the left 1/2 was braking. When you wanted to blip the throttle do not move your foot but instead just kick/move your knee to the right. This puts the other 1/2 of the foot onto the gas pedal, and it was easier to do (for me at least). Do not have your heal resting on the floor.

I tried this method and actually liked it. thks