Unsafe wheel design, crappy iForged customer service

[1994viper]

Okay, im not the one who likes to bitch a lot. But this issue got me going a bit. So I upgrade my 94 to a 05 with iForged wheels a couple of months ago. I really liked the car till I got caught in the drizzle. While driving on the highway at 60 mph, I started to having a wobble. So, I naturally got scared and decided to slow the car down by pressing the brake. That's when the whole hell broke loose. It felt like the front was coming apart, and the wheel would come off. The front jumped and hopped so violently that it became unstoppable and barely controllable, to the point where I got scared for my and others lives. I literally thought im going to be another viper casualty.
Later, I go on to the google, and find out its a long known issue with the wheel design. The flaw that iForged has been aware of for a long time, to the extent they actually went ahead and designed a so called water channel diverter which they are trying to charge money for from people who bought their initially unsafe and dangerours product. I have contacted their company in hopes to resolve this issue properly. They have admitted that their wheels will cause vibrations in wet conditions, but yet refused to fix it! Demanding from me that I must buy their fix to their fault at their online store. I think this is absurd, and totally immoral. This is the company that beside producing a dangerous item does not stand by their product or care for human life or safety of others. So, I decided to warn others and give those ....... 30 bucks or so for what will most likely be just another bad product for which there will be no refund for. :/

[Fatboy 18]

Hello 1994 Viper,
Trying to understand this? Surely this would be a tire problem in the wet? What exactly is happening, is the wheel somehow flexing?

Do you have a pic of the exact model wheel. Do the company recommend a particular brand of tire for their wheel to minimise the problem?

[plumcrazy]

can you post some links ? not sure how a wheel can cause this, sounds more like a tire issue

[Nine Ball]

Being a dealer for many wheels, I can explain this. We refer to it as "Rain Wobble". It is NOT specific to iForged.

It is a rare occurrence that can happen with any brand of wheel, that is built using a smooth lip, or soft lip construction. These wheels have the drop-center (the raised hump on the outer hoop) on the backside of the wheel, which makes the wheel lip appear flat/smooth. The opposite construction would be a stepped-lip wheel, with the drop center towards the face of the wheel. So, the smooth lip wheel has a valley between that hump, and the backside of the face of the wheel. This valley can collect water, as there is nowhere for it to escape. Some of you might even observe that puddle form behind the spokes, when washing your car - if you have smooth lip wheels.

That water getting trapped behind the spokes is what throws the wheel balance off. This only happens during HARD rain, as it has to be raining hard enough for water to collect back there. Driving slower usually makes the wobble disappear. When it stops raining, it only takes a few miles for the water to sling its way out, or dissipate. It is just a temporary issue.

Soft Lip (aka "Smoot Lip") wheel shown below. Notice the drop-center hump on the backside of the wheel. The water gets trapped between that hump and the back of the spokes.



Stepped Lip wheel shown below. Notice the hump is directly under the edge of the spokes, and the backside of the wheel is smooth. No place for water to get trapped.



Many people prefer the Soft Lip wheel, because the center forging is 1 inch larger in diameter, so it makes the wheel appear larger to the eye. It also makes the lip appear deeper than a stepped lip. But, the Stepped Lip wheel is lighter, due to the smaller center forging required, and is better for performance. I run both types, depending on the vehicle. Also, monoblock 1-piece wheels generally have the stepped lip internals, with the drop-center hump on the outer face. Those don't trap water, either.

Stepped lip on my '06



Soft lip on my '13





Tony

[1994viper]

Thank you Tony for the proper explanation. If ill get a chance ill make a clip of the the violent shake im getting. its was caused by a drizzle and minor wet condition, not a heavy rain in my case. Mayby a water splash from passing cars gets trapped in the wheel. And i have to stop fully for it to go away. And then the car is good for a few miles again...But I guess its not what's important here. What is, is that iforged, admits the issue, but refuses to fix it properly.

[Fatboy 18]

Thanks' Nine Ball
I had never heard about that before, interesting.

[XSnake]

Never heard of this before and never had any issues in the FL downpours.

[plumcrazy]

tony, great news. doesnt sound like its anything iforged needs to address, its a problem with all wheels of that type.

[BlackSnake99]

Just drill some drain holes in the barrel. Problem solved.

[Nine Ball]

tony, great news. doesnt sound like its anything iforged needs to address, its a problem with all wheels of that type.

This. I've had it personally happen to me with every single brand that uses soft lip construction. Including HRE, Forgeline, etc.. It is a water issue. Sometimes guys experience it after washing their cars. It only takes about 1 ounce (weight) of water to noticeably throw the balance off, and much more gets trapped back there. I wouldn't expect any company to "fix" the issue, it is just the nature of the design. The hump is mandatory, if you want to get a tire on the wheel. That reduction in inner diameter is what allows a tire to be stretched over the lip of the wheel. This is one reason I run monoblock wheels or stepped lip wheels on my daily drivers, to avoid the rain wobble.

[Nine Ball]

Never heard of this before and never had any issues in the FL downpours.

Rains a lot in Houston, too. Raining hard today, in fact. What wheels are on your car? Do they have the hump on the backside of the wheel? Do you drive it in hard rain, for several miles? It takes a while for it to accumulate in the wheel. Sideways rain is best at doing it, at least on one side of the car

[Ricketts]

Thats good to know info, never knew myself being I don't drive my car on rainy days.

[1994viper]

tony, great news. doesnt sound like its anything iforged needs to address, its a problem with all wheels of that type.

C'mon guy. Do you really think that? Just because many rim manufacturers are not regulated and many produce iffy and dangerous products, it doesn't make it Okay!!! This is exactly why. there are so many regulations in place for so many things, because of thinking like that, and people who run those business who do not stand by their product, when at fault. And apathetically just trying to make more money instead of apologising and fixing the problem. I wonder if a car manufacturer had had put such rim on their cars. They would be recalled in a heart beat and fixed or changed free of charge!. Im not being unreasonable here. iForged has a fix for it and does admit the existence of the issue. I think its their responsibility to absorb the cost of the "fix" ($2 worth of plastic, which they are trying to sell for $30+ to the owners of their flawed wheel) Plus I offered to absorb the cost of installation, and balancing the of wheels.

[Ricketts]

I think its their responsibility to absorb the cost of the "fix" ($2 worth of plastic, which they are trying to sell for $30+ to the owners of their flawed wheel)

What, do they make a plastic insert to fill the valley?

[1994viper]

What, do they make a plastic insert to fill the valley?

They make that:

http://www.iforged.com/store/product...?products_id=5

[XSnake]

Rains a lot in Houston, too. Raining hard today, in fact. What wheels are on your car? Do they have the hump on the backside of the wheel? Do you drive it in hard rain, for several miles? It takes a while for it to accumulate in the wheel. Sideways rain is best at doing it, at least on one side of the car

I've had IForged before, I believe they were Astras. I currently have Forgelines and OEM 5 Spokes.

[Fatboy 18]

They make that:

http://www.iforged.com/store/product...?products_id=5

Blimey, all the fuss over a $35.00 part!

Have to agree, you would think they would give you a set after your experience!

[Next Phase]

Wait, you drive your Viper in the rain???

[Dan Cragin]

Wow thats very interesting, I have never heard of this in all the years I have been dealing with wheels. I will make sure to let my clients know these soft lip wheels are "fair weather" only.

[MoparBoyy]

Wait, you drive your Viper in the rain???

kind of what i was thinking! I have no issues driving my car in the rain, i have issues with the other drivers more.

[Nine Ball]

Yes, soft lip wheels are okay most of the time, but rain can cause issues. Google search, you'll find numerous cases of the same thing. Example, does this post look familiar?

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/susp...nd-wobble.html

Cures: Driving slower until water dissipates, or carrying a microfiber rag to sop up the trapped water before proceeding further. I've done both. One customer even got crafty and carries a can of compressed air (keyboard cleaner) and sprays the water out of his wheels.

[Fatboy 18]

I don't think any of us would drive our cars in the rain out of choice, however if your traveling to or from a motoring event, sometimes you get caught in a storm Traveling to and from Le mans in my Viper springs to mind!

Have to say getting caught in a storm in the Viper is much more enjoyable than Driving an open top AC Cobra!

[Nine Ball]

I don't think any of us would drive our cars in the rain out of choice, however if your traveling to or from a motoring event, sometimes you get caught in a storm Traveling to and from Le mans in my Viper springs to mind!

The rain wobble of death doesn't prevent a Viper from driving in rain. It does prevent you from going above 55-60 mph in rain, however. The Vipers might not even require hard rain to accumulate water in the wheels, since we have brake cooling ducts that also serve to blow water or light rain/drizzle into the backside of the wheels. Slowing down for a few miles, until the rain is clear, usually works. The water dissipates pretty quickly once it stops raining, usually only a couple miles of slow driving needed.

[Viper Specialty]

I did not see anyone mention during my skim that the iForged wheels were actually redesigned a couple of years ago to minimize this issue. They moved the barrel step for mounting closer to the bolt pad area [or possibly changed suppliers?], reducing the amount of water they are capable of holding. Also, there is a "flapper" that can be added that pushes the water out of this area when driving.

[JohnnyH]

All this time I thought I was the only crazy one that experiences the wobble at higher speeds when I'm caught in the rain. I have 360 Forged and when I'm about 70mph and up my front end violently want shakes up and down. I thought it might have been because my car was really lowered and I messed with the aerodynamics of the car or even the suspension acting funny during wet conditions. When I'm on the interstate, I try to find the closest rest stop and stop there and let the water drain. As soon as I park my car, you can see the water draining out. So if I'm on a short ride, I might have to stop a couple times. If its real bad downpour, I just pull over and let the water drain for a few minutes, continue on my journey going less than 60mph. Its quite annoying.