Unsafe wheel design, crappy iForged customer service

[intense]

With this being a known issue, you would think wheel retailers would advise customers of this whenever a soft lip set of wheels was purchased. Iforged obviously has a solution - why not reccomend it at purchase? The op dos'nt sound unreasonable, and probably would'nt have minded spending the extra $35 had he been made aware at purchase time. I think that what the op is upset over is that he was'nt made aware and now iforges' buyer beware attitude about it when it'd been really cool of them to have said "oh yeah, sorry, we know about that and really should add a disclaimer about it to our soft lipped wheels. We'll send you a set on us as thanks for dropping $5k+ on a set of wheels". Bet they'd of made a customer for life.

[LATAMUD]

All this time I thought I was the only crazy one that experiences the wobble at higher speeds when I'm caught in the rain. I have 360 Forged and when I'm about 70mph and up my front end violently want shakes up and down. I thought it might have been because my car was really lowered and I messed with the aerodynamics of the car or even the suspension acting funny during wet conditions. When I'm on the interstate, I try to find the closest rest stop and stop there and let the water drain. As soon as I park my car, you can see the water draining out. So if I'm on a short ride, I might have to stop a couple times. If its real bad downpour, I just pull over and let the water drain for a few minutes, continue on my journey going less than 60mph. Its quite annoying.

Same thing but I always experience it at 69, no pun intended, MPH. I've asked others about this thinking it was hydro planing but a little different. I always thought it was the tires.

[Viper Girl]

I thought the OP bought the 05 car with the wheels already on it... and iForged has redesigned the wheel since to avoid this problem for newer purchasers... I guess I read that part wrong...

Also guys with this type of wheel... Does this happen in the rain even if you don't step on the brake? what if you just eased up on the gas to slow down? Just curious...

[Nine Ball]

I thought the OP bought the 05 car with the wheels already on it... and iForged has redesigned the wheel since to avoid this problem for newer purchasers... I guess I read that part wrong...

Also guys with this type of wheel... Does this happen in the rain even if you don't step on the brake? what if you just eased up on the gas to slow down? Just curious...

The wheels have not been redesigned. The outer barrels are only manufactured by 3 or 4 companies, and all of the wheel companies use the same suppliers. The drop center (hump) cannot be moved, it is where it is because it is required to mount a tire on the wheel. You can't simply move it. Sure, narrow wheels will result in a narrower valley between the spokes and drop center, but Vipers run very wide wheels front and rear.

The wobble is worse, the faster you go. I've found that slowing to 55-60, it is barely noticeable. You have to drive for quite a while in the rain for water to accumulate on the back of the wheel, which is why it is rare. Most of us just see an occasional shower to drive through, not hours of driving in rain.

[City]

Okay, im not the one who likes to bitch a lot. But this issue got me going a bit. So I upgrade my 94 to a 05 with iForged wheels a couple of months ago. I really liked the car till I got caught in the drizzle. While driving on the highway at 60 mph, I started to having a wobble. So, I naturally got scared and decided to slow the car down by pressing the brake. That's when the whole hell broke loose. It felt like the front was coming apart, and the wheel would come off. The front jumped and hopped so violently that it became unstoppable and barely controllable, to the point where I got scared for my and others lives. I literally thought im going to be another viper casualty.
Later, I go on to the google, and find out its a long known issue with the wheel design. The flaw that iForged has been aware of for a long time, to the extent they actually went ahead and designed a so called water channel diverter which they are trying to charge money for from people who bought their initially unsafe and dangerours product. I have contacted their company in hopes to resolve this issue properly. They have admitted that their wheels will cause vibrations in wet conditions, but yet refused to fix it! Demanding from me that I must buy their fix to their fault at their online store. I think this is absurd, and totally immoral. This is the company that beside producing a dangerous item does not stand by their product or care for human life or safety of others. So, I decided to warn others and give those ....... 30 bucks or so for what will most likely be just another bad product for which there will be no refund for. :/

Hopefully I won't regret chiming into this thread, but I have a bit of concern regarding the potential negative "reping" of iForged. There's actually some fascinating info in here (special thanks to Nine Ball). But if the author is posting a materially serious complaint "iForged unsafe product and bad customer service!" I think this bears some scrutiny. If 1994viper purchased his iForged wheels directly from iForged, then he certainly has a legitimate gripe. However, if he purchased his 2005 Viper WITH iForged wheels already installed, then IMO, I think the serious criticism is undeserved. I have less issue with the discussion than with the thread title which makes serious accusations. It would be helpful if the author added some clarity here. If folks disagree with me, please chime in.

[Viper Girl]

I'd like some clarity too. Seems reasonable to me...

[Nine Ball]

Hopefully I won't regret chiming into this thread, but I have a bit of concern regarding the potential negative "reping" of iForged. There's actually some fascinating info in here (special thanks to Nine Ball). But if the author is posting a materially serious complaint "iForged unsafe product and bad customer service!" I think this bears some scrutiny. If 1994viper purchased his iForged wheels directly from iForged, then he certainly has a legitimate gripe. However, if he purchased his 2005 Viper WITH iForged wheels already installed, then IMO, I think the serious criticism is undeserved. I have less issue with the discussion than with the thread title which makes serious accusations. It would be helpful if the author added some clarity here. If folks disagree with me, please chime in.

Agreed. The title is misleading and paints a bad picture on iForged. That is why I explained that it is not solely an iForged issue. Also, the warranty for iForged is lifetime structural, and 1 year finish. This only applies to the original purchaser. But, this isn't a warranty issue at all. Perhaps the thread title should be changed to say "warning for smooth-lip wheels, driven in rain"

[Viper Girl]

Nine Ball...

Rain or will drizzle do this as well? Just curious...

[Nine Ball]

Water misting and rain blows through the air when driving, especially when following other traffic. It takes several miles for water droplets to collect their way to the back of the wheel. The rain wobble is VERY rare, it requires long periods of driving in heavy rain. That is why you rarely hear about it. I don't see drizzle doing much, unless you drive for several hours in it. Haha

[Janni]

this is fascinating.

Being married to an engineer, it's one thing I never have to worry about - buying something for form over function. ;-)

While the look may be lovely - there's no way in Hades I would have wheels that had this as a known issue. (Realize OP bought car with wheels already installed?)

Certainly iForged COULD provide an update kit for this customer, since he's not the original purchaser - their responsibility likely ended there. But - you'd like to think that they'd send him the upgrade since this is a potential customer relations / review nightmare.

IMO - the thing that separates companies is how they respond to problems. Overall- this is a design issue - so it really should be handled. If it were my company - that's how I would do it.

[CHAP]

Good info thanks

[No hemi]

I'll trade you your iforged for my stock "H" wheels, no wobble here!!!

[KNG SNKE]

Agree with Janni. If it is a design flaw then it should be corrected or recalled. If the potential to cause a wreck is out there then a recall should be issued. Either way if someone got in a wreck due to this flaw and it was determined the wheels were the cause there is a good chance the manufacturer is liable for that wreck if I am not mistaken. I am not a lawyer though.

[LATAMUD]

Does this happen in the rain even if you don't step on the brake? what if you just eased up on the gas to slow down? Just curious...

I've been caught in heavy rain and experience this effect. If a vehicle is driving next to you and hits a puddle and splashes water over it can exacerbate. Obviously increased speed makes it worse. Once it starts I notice it stays until I slow to around 40 mph but accelerating brings it back. To get rid of the feeling I have to pull over then start driving again and keep my speed below 69 mph until I get another splash.

[KNG SNKE]

I've been caught in heavy rain and experience this effect. If a vehicle is driving next to you and hits a puddle and splashes water over it can exacerbate. Obviously increased speed makes it worse. Once it starts I notice it stays until I slow to around 40 mph but accelerating brings it back. To get rid of the feeling I have to pull over then start driving again and keep my speed below 69 mph until I get another splash.

That sounds ridiculous to me. I would ensure it was fixed. Only takes a little wobble to kick a car sideways.

[Janni]

Actually - I'd take the wheels off my car and get some decent OEM takeoffs or suck it up and buy the $35 (?) fix. No amount of posing is worth this potential disaster.

and - just to be clear - this does not appear to be an iForged specific design flaw - it's fluid dynamics or physics or something. Do we know how the other suppliers of this "style" wheel have dealt with this issue?

And thanks everyone for being so informative on this stuff - you really do learn something new every day.

[Wot!]

This post ended up being very helpful. I have member that was having this exact problem but thought it was related to having the top up on his 05 vert. Makes sense now, he only had the top up when it rained. He's very excited to solve his problem.

I do have to say the title is misleading. I hope it gets changed to be a bit more representative of the topic.

I would suggest solving your problem with a small piece of body trim. I would go with chrome. It has a strong 3m backing that I am sure would stay in place and accomplish the same goal of disrupting the water.

I wonder if a rebalance would be needed with what ever you put on the wheel?

[JohnnyH]

Let me know if that Iforged fix really works. I'll have to order me a set to if it does. Although, my rim guy told me it doesn't. But if someone is willing to buy it and test it out it'll be greatly appreciated.

[RTTTTed]

My friend bought new wheels for his '08. They had the water wobble and he called iforged who promptly sold him their fix. Wonder why they wait until someone complains before mentioning the flaw? Being a flaw I think that EVERY wheels sold with the flaw should have the "fix" included in the box.

Not informing customers of the flaw is absolute BS. It's like selling a car on ebay but forgetting to mention that the engine has a dead cylinder that needs to be fixed for full power.

Making bad wheels is OK - as long as you inform people that the wheels aren't for street use in case it rains. Indoor and sunshine use only would be a good notice to put on the box. Kind of like windshield wipers. You may not use them much, but the law requires that they come on the car in case you do need them. I've driven through storms where I could barely see the road and never noticed a wobble in any of my Viper with any of my wheels.

[VYPR BYT]

Tony, thanks for the detailed explanation on the 1st page... very good info.

As an engineer I'd think this whole thing could possibly be precluded by adding like 5 degrees of draft running outward along the entire inside face of the wheel.
That way while spinning, the centrifugal force will then force the water outwards where it needs to be instead of trapping it along the inside. An added benefit is "more draft" also makes it easier to de-mold parts in production.
Interesting thread.

Mike

[Viper Specialty]

I think it needs to be reiterated what NineBall said back on page one. To paraphrase, this affects ALL reverse mount style wheels. This is not just an iForged issue. If you want the "large" outside lip, the mounting "hump" needs to go somewhere else... and that is the back edge of the lip. Pick your battles... if you want "rain capable" wheels, then you don't get reverse mount. If you would prefer the style, then you try not to drive in the rain. That's all there is to it. While I completely agree that things like this should be spelled out, and the wheel manufacturers fail horribly at it, this is not a new issue that anyone cannot find out about within 2 minutes on Google. Saying there is a "problem" with the wheels is like complaining that you got wet in an RT/10 with the top off- you just should have bought a coupe.

All that said, iForged customer service blows. I sell them and have owned multiple sets including a set on my car now, and I still think they are a crappy company to deal with. Their products are good and reasonably priced compared to HRE, but at least HRE answers the phone.

To boil it down, if you have reverse mount wheels, avoid the rain, or slow down if you do get rain wobble. NOT ALL CARS will get it! Cars with brake duct cooling tend to not get it, as they blow the water out of the barrels before it can accumulate. Cars with perfectly balanced wheels tend to not get it (or as badly), as the wheel must be off balance or upset to start the chain of events. This is basic physics with regard to centrifugal forces. The water collects, ruins balance. Out of balance section moves off center alignment, accumulates more water. This out of balance occurrence runs away until the water overflows, or speed decreases enough for balance to re-stabilize.

The iForged "flapper" is one partial solution. It pushes the water out of this area before it can start to accumulate. It helps, but its not 100%. Another solution is to "fill" the water trapping area with some kind of media that takes the place of the water. Easier said than done, and you would need to re-balance after this was done. Thus could also be risky, as it came loose while the car was moving.

Unfortunately, there are no easy true solutions to this. A true fix would be a barrel that was smaller down the center, but then you would have bolt pad access issues on a multi-piece wheel, and a far more complicated manufacturing process, resulting in wheels likely double to triple the price.

[1994viper]

Hello fellow Viper owners. It came to my notice and I have been contacted by authorities of this forum regarding a dislike of the title for this tread. Its been accused of being threatening or missleading


I truly feel that my title isn't threatening or missleading. I believe that they did produce a dangerous product (I notified iForged of such, the did not deny it. The actual quotation on their site reads: "dreaded wheel vibyration problem". Its alarming and frightful vibration which is in turn dangerous. They refused to provide the fix, instead they tried to money grab, hence bed customer service. I think my title is fine.
Thank you
Mark

[KNG SNKE]

[QUOTE=Viper Specialty;2472]I think it needs to be reiterated what NineBall said back on page one. To paraphrase, this affects ALL reverse mount style wheels. This is not just an iForged issue. If you want the "large" outside lip, the mounting "hump" needs to go somewhere else... and that is the back edge of the lip. Pick your battles... if you want "rain capable" wheels, then you don't get reverse mount. If you would prefer the style, then you try not to drive in the rain. That's all there is to it. While I completely agree that things like this should be spelled out, and the wheel manufacturers fail horribly at it, this is not a new issue that anyone cannot find out about within 2 minutes on Google. Saying there is a "problem" with the wheels is like complaining that you got wet in an RT/10 with the top off- you just should have bought a coupe.

QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree more. The correct example your looking for would be buying an RT10 and getting wet with the TOP ON. These wheels were designed to operate on the road and if there is an issue that impacts their proper use on the road it needs to be disclosed. Is there a disclaimer on their website stating the issue? Regardless if it affects all reverse mount styles if it is a KNOWN issue it needs to be disclosed. Why don't they disclose it? Well people would hesitate to buy a set of wheels that can cause you to wreck in rain and it would cost them sales. I can tell you if I sold a product that did not operate as intended (no wheels are intended to operate with a wobble), then the products deficiency should be recalled and corrected. Now if the disclaimer is clearly put out then this is a non issue. I have been around these cars for a while and I have never heard of such an issue until this thread.

[Viper Girl]

94V I believe what has been pointed out several times in this thread... This is an issue with ALL reverse mount style wheels. Not just iForged.

Because of this thread more people are educated about the issue, and can make decisions about future wheel purchases on all wheels of this style.

iforgeddiverter.jpg


Googled this and found threads that this happens with a lot of brands HRE, DRE and others... It truly isn't just an iForged issue...

[Nine Ball]

Some of you are blowing this rare occurrence out of proportion. So, allow me to interject a similar situation that is common.

Drag radial tires. They are DOT rated and legal for use on the road. But, those of us that choose to run them also understand that they do not work on wet surfaces. You cannot go over 40 mph on some asphalt roads, when the road is even damp, or you'll spin out.

So, are the DOT approved tires a design flaw, or do you accept the consequences to get the benefit or appearance gains from running them?

Same situation.

They refused to provide the fix, instead they tried to money grab, hence bad customer service. I think my title is fine.

Describing yourself as a "customer" implies that you purchased from them, or did business with them. Did you purchase the wheels new? If not, who is to say that the original owner didn't receive such parts, and decided not to install them? Just something to consider. At what point does someone go from being a "customer" to simply an "owner of a product"? If I bought a used Dodge Viper that was out of warranty, would it be reasonable for me to complain to Dodge or assume they owed me something?