We re going to nurburgring

[ek1]

Well regardless of the if the Performante was on slicks or not we know that a Viper on Kumho's 100% street legal tire will do a 7:03 and potentially sub 7 minute on the retry in August. From what Dom said it seems my hopes of a 7:4x was a bone stock pipe dream. It would be nice if they slapped some full-on race slicks and saw what the beast would do. Its like what they did with the TA at the Laguna Seca test.

Performante was using Pzero Trofeo R tires for the record attempt. What remains to be seen is whether those tires will be available as an option in the ordering guide for the Performante. If they are orderable as an option from the factory, the car that set the record cannot be considered "stock".

[stradman]

Performante was using Pzero Trofeo R tires for the record attempt. What remains to be seen is whether those tires will be available as an option in the ordering guide for the Performante. If they are orderable as an option from the factory, the car that set the record cannot be considered "stock".

I don't understand why they won't be? They're already available street legal tyres. Why the head scratching??

[Snakebit10]

Performante was using Pzero Trofeo R tires for the record attempt. What remains to be seen is whether those tires will be available as an option in the ordering guide for the Performante. If they are orderable as an option from the factory, the car that set the record cannot be considered "stock".

And what third party confirmation do we have that it was indeed non-shaved, production spec Pzero Trofeo R??? I've read just as many rumors that it was NOT on the level rubber as those claiming it was bone stock, production rubber cause we know that mfg's don't lie and cheat at Ring lap claims hehe. We don't even know if its production spec engine, suspension tuning etc. I love the Bull too but over the years I've seen too many cheating mfg times to just accept what they say on good faith when we all know these Ring times have been manipulated by some and that their is no clear standard for what constitutes a production lap time. Remember the last Porsche GT2 RS Ring time? If my memory serves that was two laps spliced together to give a time of 7:18.

I think that both Viper efforts in 2010 and 2017 have been as transparent as can be for a true production car and could be looked at as a model to adopt going forward. Any car that is a mule that runs a time way before the car is even production status is kind of up for skepticism and thats across the board not just aimed at the Bull. Just my worthless..

[ClayR]

I don't understand why they won't be? They're already available street legal tyres. Why the head scratching??

Manufacturers have to adhere to regulations to sell an automobile to be in compliance with Federal Law. I am not sure about an exotic company like Lamborghini but CAFE regulations restrict certain options on regular cars. For instance, an auto manufacturer has to have an average fuel economy across all models. Tires make a difference in that regard. People modify their autos with all kinds of aftermarket equipment that is street legal, but wouldn't fly coming from the manufacturer.

[ACR Extreme]

Actually it doesn't! Read your posts and you clearly just blindly accept the Lambo times because you like them and keep claiming that they have no reason to lie, they have integrity, blah, blah, blah. Look if the Viper can't run the gambit for the record, but has it documented and witnessed, we the Viper community accept it for what it is. We don't make excuses and we do have respect for those that truly do better. In LIFE, if it is not documented and witnessed, it did not exist. That is the way it is.

Do I think the ACR will beat that a Lambo spliced time, no I don't. Full on race cars like the Radical times prove how hard it is to do these sub 7 sec times. Don't care if the 918 had a week of track time, $20M in funds but if it is documented and witnessed, therefore valid. It's not the point of how much time, money, etc. it is truly verified and witnessed. It is a real time.

Guess this is why I gravitate to the Viper as it is the working mans car, with real world results. Know lots of Lambo owners, some in our club are also Viper owners. They love the looks of the Lambo and for that show but still drive their Vipers on the track, not their Lambos. If they are so confident, bring it back out and verify it with witnesses. They will not!

Blindly accepting the Lambo time - you are so off as are others it's ridiculous. The Performante is advanced to handle a track like the ring the Viper is not. ALA aero dampeners torque rev's F1 shifts you literally must be blind to think the ACR is as fast in or out of corners straights not to mention planted Haldex awd.

I own a GTS-R but it's not realistic on a track like the Ring to think the Viper will touch the Performante - I love my Viper for what it is no need to justify to for what it is not.

Viper is no more a working mans car than any other car - you think successful people don't work for a living.

The Dodge brand does represent something different than Lamborghini but the new Lamborghini is not the old Lamborghini. Audi's racing influence is massive Lamborghini isn't about style inasmuch performance. I bought my first Lamborghini after the announcement of the SV under 7 minutes at the ring.

I follow a lot of Ring performance runs - reason is I like going on road rally events which reflect the ring. Windy hills lots of movement in the asphalt. I had the Viper out last weekend on a rally run and it does move a lot it's also has a ton of drag at high speeds and shifting the gears they are short and tall vs my other cars. The Viper is an awesome machine but it's no match head to head at the ring with a Performante.

Mods added to the Viper - every track rat who wants more changes the shocks dampers exhaust and performance. Performante right off the showroom floor has all these advancements and active aero F1 you tell me how the ACR competes with the Performante would love to hear how you think it keeps up. View the two videos speeds placement in and out of turns straights again would love to hear where you find the ACR faster at the Ring.

[ACR Extreme]

Manufacturers have to adhere to regulations to sell an automobile to be in compliance with Federal Law. I am not sure about an exotic company like Lamborghini but CAFE regulations restrict certain options on regular cars. For instance, an auto manufacturer has to have an average fuel economy across all models. Tires make a difference in that regard. People modify their autos with all kinds of aftermarket equipment that is street legal, but wouldn't fly coming from the manufacturer.

Modify a Lamborghini McLaren Ferrari - lose your warranty including tires.

I added a Lamborghini racing exhaust on my SV Roadster - would not touch anything after market learned my lesson when Ferrari denied warranty.

All factories above 10,000 car meet the same EPA which is why Ferrari will need a hybrid for their SUV just like Lamborghini Urus although Lamborghini produces under 4000 cars.

[ClayR]

Modify a Lamborghini McLaren Ferrari - lose your warranty including tires.

I added a Lamborghini racing exhaust on my SV Roadster - would not touch anything after market learned my lesson when Ferrari denied warranty.

All factories above 10,000 car meet the same EPA which is why Ferrari will need a hybrid for their SUV just like Lamborghini Urus although Lamborghini produces under 4000 cars.

I would love to have a Performante. I did snag a GTS-R, so I am pretty happy with that. Thanks for the clarification. I have a friend who just got his Huracan TT's by DIME Racing. Hoping to see it at C&C this month. It is nice.

[CarolinaViper]

Manufacturers have to adhere to regulations to sell an automobile to be in compliance with Federal Law. I am not sure about an exotic company like Lamborghini but CAFE regulations restrict certain options on regular cars. For instance, an auto manufacturer has to have an average fuel economy across all models. Tires make a difference in that regard. People modify their autos with all kinds of aftermarket equipment that is street legal, but wouldn't fly coming from the manufacturer.

Clay,

What about their parent Company and the diesel emission issue...not only did they lie, but they knowing put software to deceive the emissions test...and we don't have reasons of concern about their time.

[v10enomous]

Clay,

What about their parent Company and the diesel emission issue...not only did they lie, but they knowing put software to deceive the emissions test...and we don't have reasons of concern about their time.

Don't shoot the messenger but FCA allegedly did the same thing albeit on a smaller scale.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/u-s-s...sel-emissions/

[Snakebit10]

Well we shall see when customer Performante's hits the same tracks as the ACR once they go on sale (if customers will even race them). Or Pobst at Laguna with a Performante. If its really faster around a track legitimately no problem at all. That video Lambo released just left a lot of us not trusting the claim. A healthy dose of skepticism never hurts.

[ClayR]

VW outright cheated. FIAT went to the government and asked for permission to update software and the government slapped them down and started the investigation and fines. Your tax dollars at work! It is two completely different scenarios. Yes that would surely help their CAFE standards, good point!

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Racing is inconsistent enough as it is – different track / driver / day / weather / phase of the moon / etc. produces different results. I feel any vehicle lap time should probably have a +/- 5 second window surrounding it just based on the above variables. Now, did the vehicle lap in question get its full potential that day or did conditions not allow that? In the case of the Viper time, we know they got only one lap on a green track, maybe the window should be more like +2 / - 8 because the potential for great improvement is there.

As the Nürburgring “production car record” is not overseen by any sanctioning body there are probably more variables than there are constants. Even with sanctioning bodies present, teams ride the line of legal or knowingly illegal just because of the way a rule is written.

Typically the manufacturer makes an attempt, usually with a pre-production vehicle, probably because they want to use the lap time as marketing material later on when the car is launched. I am sure there are varying degrees of honesty within these manufacturers (tire compounds, shaved tires, gutted vehicles for weight savings, special engine tunes, and so on). At the end of the day nobody knows if these times are from “close enough” production cars or not.

The Viper record effort is one of if not the most open/ public programs to have made the attempt The Viper is doing everything in the opposite manner – the public is funding (on a very limited budget) a production spec vehicle for the attempt as production closes. Every issue or challenge faced is basically public knowledge.

If Viper plays fair and nobody else does – while admirable, it really doesn’t matter. There are no rules to a time being released. Some people are assuming there is some funny business going on with the Vipers anyway. People will try to discredit it because of XYZ reason. The best thing going for the Viper is having the open forum and Road & Track there to add some form of credibility to the whole thing. Either way haters will hate.

All this said, it is super impressive what the car has done on its one and only lap. If it did get the record, or second place, that would make it even more impressive. Add to the fact the car uses only a small percentage of the tech of those others near the top. Since I can’t control what others might do, I choose to focus on what we have done and what the potential could be. I’d love to see the record taken outright without any asterisks required, but either way at least we know, despite the inherent and circumstantial disadvantages, this is one of the fastest production track cars there has ever been. (and while we may never know - if a few of those others cheated, it pushes it even closer to the top)

[CarolinaViper]

Don't shoot the messenger but FCA allegedly did the same thing albeit on a smaller scale.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/u-s-s...sel-emissions/

Difference is FCA is not conducting the run at the Ring...whereas VW and associates did.

[slowhatch]

If Viper plays fair and nobody else does – while admirable, it really doesn’t matter. There are no rules to a time being released. Some people are assuming there is some funny business going on with the Vipers anyway. People will try to discredit it because of XYZ reason. The best thing going for the Viper is having the open forum and Road & Track there to add some form of credibility to the whole thing. Either way haters will hate.

All this said, it is super impressive what the car has done on its one and only lap. If it did get the record, or second place, that would make it even more impressive. Add to the fact the car uses only a small percentage of the tech of those others near the top. Since I can’t control what others might do, I choose to focus on what we have done and what the potential could be. I’d love to see the record taken outright without any asterisks required, but either way at least we know, despite the inherent and circumstantial disadvantages, this is one of the fastest production track cars there has ever been. (and while we may never know - if a few of those others cheated, it pushes it even closer to the top)

Bingo.

[Kurt]

Racing is inconsistent enough as it is – different track / driver / day / weather / phase of the moon / etc. produces different results. I feel any vehicle lap time should probably have a +/- 5 second window surrounding it just based on the above variables. Now, did the vehicle lap in question get its full potential that day or did conditions not allow that? In the case of the Viper time, we know they got only one lap on a green track, maybe the window should be more like +2 / - 8 because the potential for great improvement is there.

As the Nürburgring “production car record” is not overseen by any sanctioning body there are probably more variables than there are constants. Even with sanctioning bodies present, teams ride the line of legal or knowingly illegal just because of the way a rule is written.

Typically the manufacturer makes an attempt, usually with a pre-production vehicle, probably because they want to use the lap time as marketing material later on when the car is launched. I am sure there are varying degrees of honesty within these manufacturers (tire compounds, shaved tires, gutted vehicles for weight savings, special engine tunes, and so on). At the end of the day nobody knows if these times are from “close enough” production cars or not.

The Viper record effort is one of if not the most open/ public programs to have made the attempt The Viper is doing everything in the opposite manner – the public is funding (on a very limited budget) a production spec vehicle for the attempt as production closes. Every issue or challenge faced is basically public knowledge.

If Viper plays fair and nobody else does – while admirable, it really doesn’t matter. There are no rules to a time being released. Some people are assuming there is some funny business going on with the Vipers anyway. People will try to discredit it because of XYZ reason. The best thing going for the Viper is having the open forum and Road & Track there to add some form of credibility to the whole thing. Either way haters will hate.

All this said, it is super impressive what the car has done on its one and only lap. If it did get the record, or second place, that would make it even more impressive. Add to the fact the car uses only a small percentage of the tech of those others near the top. Since I can’t control what others might do, I choose to focus on what we have done and what the potential could be. I’d love to see the record taken outright without any asterisks required, but either way at least we know, despite the inherent and circumstantial disadvantages, this is one of the fastest production track cars there has ever been. (and while we may never know - if a few of those others cheated, it pushes it even closer to the top)

Very well said Doug! Have enjoyed watching the effort, and incredibly proud to be a very small part of it. Thank you for your continued support of the Ring team!

[Fulltilt]

Somewhere this morning I read a quote from Dominic that he forgot to change the stability control setting when getting in the car. He spent the first minute or so trying to turn it to Track Mode. Something else he mentioned, when they run the "Industry Laps" the cars enter the track right in front of the first turn. Because of this, he didn't know where the braking point was when entering the first turn at full speed.

[Coloviper]

Blindly accepting the Lambo time - you are so off as are others it's ridiculous. The Performante is advanced to handle a track like the ring the Viper is not. ALA aero dampeners torque rev's F1 shifts you literally must be blind to think the ACR is as fast in or out of corners straights not to mention planted Haldex awd.

I own a GTS-R but it's not realistic on a track like the Ring to think the Viper will touch the Performante - I love my Viper for what it is no need to justify to for what it is not.

Viper is no more a working mans car than any other car - you think successful people don't work for a living.

The Dodge brand does represent something different than Lamborghini but the new Lamborghini is not the old Lamborghini. Audi's racing influence is massive Lamborghini isn't about style inasmuch performance. I bought my first Lamborghini after the announcement of the SV under 7 minutes at the ring.

I follow a lot of Ring performance runs - reason is I like going on road rally events which reflect the ring. Windy hills lots of movement in the asphalt. I had the Viper out last weekend on a rally run and it does move a lot it's also has a ton of drag at high speeds and shifting the gears they are short and tall vs my other cars. The Viper is an awesome machine but it's no match head to head at the ring with a Performante.

Mods added to the Viper - every track rat who wants more changes the shocks dampers exhaust and performance. Performante right off the showroom floor has all these advancements and active aero F1 you tell me how the ACR competes with the Performante would love to hear how you think it keeps up. View the two videos speeds placement in and out of turns straights again would love to hear where you find the ACR faster at the Ring.

Oh I get it, you have a ton of money and a ton of expensive cars so you are right and we should just accept you win an argument, due to said money piled up and auto collection. Done talking on this. For the most part, Viper demograph and the euro exotic crowd are two different kinds of people. One is more self made business people and the other do have a high % of trust fund brats. There are exceptions to both however. I prefer the self made people and completely despise the trust fund brats and people who flaunt their wealth.

I can tell you that owning and running a 275 employee international specialty services engineering firm for 15 years before it was acquired by a fortune 250 company 10 years ago, I worked my ass off for every bit of it. I know what work is to earn that wealth and the value of a dollar. Made out well on the sale and 10 years later am in the process of building one up again as a new company. I could have afforded the euro cars but did NOT like the majority of owners. Your posts just bring back vivid memories of why I don't lust over nor own a Lambo or Ferrari. Most were elitist, self absorbed, entitled POS.

But in reality, all I see is a know it all, rich guy, too rich to even spend a couple of hundred bucks on a club membership. Betcha bought the Viper ACR for pure investment. It really does sound like the car is not for your rich tastes. Go ahead, put your last word in, I am done on the back and forth with this. I will congratulate the Viper Team on a great documented effort no matter what it is. There will always be a faster car, always. But will stand by ANY manufacturers physically documented and witnessed (not video reviewed) effort.

[ek1]

Oh I get it, you have a ton of money and a ton of expensive cars so you are right and we should just accept you win an argument, due to said money piled up and auto collection. Done talking on this. For the most part, Viper demograph and the euro exotic crowd are two different kinds of people. One is more self made business people and the other do have a high % of trust fund brats. There are exceptions to both however. I prefer the self made people and completely despise the trust fund brats and people who flaunt their wealth.

I can tell you that owning and running a 275 employee international specialty services engineering firm for 15 years before it was acquired by a fortune 250 company 10 years ago, I worked my ass off for every bit of it. I know what work is to earn that wealth and the value of a dollar. Made out well on the sale and 10 years later am in the process of building one up again as a new company. I could have afforded the euro cars but did NOT like the majority of owners. Your posts just bring back vivid memories of why I don't lust over nor own a Lambo or Ferrari. Most were elitist, self absorbed, entitled POS.

But in reality, all I see is a know it all, rich guy, too rich to even spend a couple of hundred bucks on a club membership. Betcha bought the Viper ACR for pure investment. It really does sound like the car is not for your rich tastes. Go ahead, put your last word in, I am done on the back and forth with this. I will congratulate the Viper Team on a great documented effort no matter what it is. There will always be a faster car, always. But will stand by ANY manufacturers physically documented and witnessed (not video reviewed) effort.

If your decision on buying vs. not buying a car (any car) is based on what other owners are like, my sincere condolences .

[Boba Fett]

too much emotion now...sounding like the corvette forum...anyway, athough I don't like the fact that Lambo used preproduction car and didn't have an unbiased party there to witness the run, I agree with "ACR Extreme" in that the ACR is outgunned by the Performante at a place like the ring...

If Dom pulls something out of his ass and cuts a close time to the Lambo, then hey....

[Vypr Phil]

This guy sure likes the Lamborghini Huracan Performante:

[ironpeddler]

This guy sure likes the Lamborghini Huracan Performante:

Lol.

Hey, it was so special it made this guy cry.

[Dr.Ron]

This guy sure likes the Lamborghini Huracan Performante

Not much to dislike!

Ron

[GerryWoodViper]

It's hard to argue with what this car offers. Of course, you can always close your eyes, cover your ears and pretend that technology wont' advance the automobile past what we know today and claim that our favorite car will always be the fastest ever... But, that might be a little foolish.

I have a Performante coming. I'll track it, and hard. I'll be happy to let ya'll know what I think vs my ACR. I'll perhaps even do a back-to-back comparison at Road Atlanta or VIR for the fun of it.

Can't wait.

[ACRucrazy]

I have a Performante coming. I'll track it, and hard. I'll be happy to let ya'll know what I think vs my ACR. I'll perhaps even do a back-to-back comparison at Road Atlanta or VIR for the fun of it.

Can't wait.

But you're going to have to correct? Lol.
Did I hear all US buyers got delayed till next year?
Either way, awesome car.

[Stealth]

Interesting how VW appears to have left the Audi R8 for DEAD vs. the Hurican... . Same engine and tranny, etc.