We re going to nurburgring

[FLATOUT]

I think it's already been a "win". The car ran a very fast Nurburgring time. And they didn't spend months testing and a full week there with 3 cars and 3 drivers waiting for perfect weather and track conditions.
7:03 is very fast and the car proved itself not only there, but on tracks all over the US where many of us regularly race and do DE's.
S.

Snorman very solid and acurate post. I would like to discuss a conversation I had while I was there after we ran the second 7:03 lap with an Engineer from Porsche that was in charge of lap/record attempts for Porsche.

He explained to me that they would lap their "Ring" cars basically for a full season, testing, tweaking, changing the cars to get them to run the numbers that they wanted. Their tire manufacturer would create whatever compound was needed to stand up to the lap and get them the best result, they would have a/b/c revisions of the same tire that all looked the same to the naked eye. Then they would wait and run the car during the most optimal conditions, usually in mid October. They would go out with tire, powertrain, and aero engineers with their hottest shoe and lay down a lap that they had already run several times before. Basically unlimited time, unlimited budget, on a track that they live, and design on.

He asked me where everyone else was, and I didn't understand him at first, he said where is your support? I had to explain to him that the handful of people that he saw WAS the onsite support and that we were the extension of 1,000's of Viper Owners, and Viper devotees across the world that had spent their own money to make the effort a reality. He was blown away by what we were running in those conditions with the support that we had. I asked him what he thought the 918 would have run in those same hot conditions and he said 7:03-7:05 with a smile.

I am proud of the car, I am proud of the people that worked so hard over there, I am proud of our owners, and I am proud as an owner.

ViperExchange: Ben Keating,Bernie Katz, Andy Wheeler, Morgan Day
Prefix: Dick Winkles, Jahn Dolphin, Kim Zeile
Riley Technologies: Matt B
Crew Chief: Joe Kallas
Mintgen Motorsports: Michael Mintgen and his Team
Drivers: Dom and Mario Farnbacher, Luca Stolz
Russ Oasis
Kumho Tire: Manfred and the folks on site there.
Dale from The Bridge to Gantry
Nurburgring staff that fell in love with the idea of the effort and kept working with Russ and Bernie for windows of track time.
Colin Fox and his excellent camera crew
The kid at the front desk of the hotel that put up with Dick Winkles calling him at 1 in the morning to tell him that there was a party going on next door, when Winkles damn well knew that there was a Techno Concert going on at the ring LOL.
The list goes on and I know that I am forgetting some people and I will apologize for that upfront.

[Boosted Motorsports]

Man this turned to an absolute PR NIGHTMARE for Kuhmo...

If anything I think they are going to lose trust/sales from this event.

Glad everyone was ok! Thanks again to Viper Exchange and all the guys that helped make this happen! Andy even if you feel/felt like you guys came up short it was definitely not from a lack of effort and I think everyone knows how hard you guys were trying!

[FLATOUT]

The team basically said the tires couldn't hold up to the Ring's 14.4 miles. But, what about those of us that run high speed tracks here in the states at very high speeds? Tracks like Daytona 24 come to mind. It is 3.56 miles long and if you run 4 laps in a row you are running 14.4 miles continuously. Speeds are also high and the banking loads up the right side front tire. I've run that track in my 09 ACR without any tire issues (Michelins). If I run it in my 17 ACR-E am I going to get killed when a Kumho blows out?

You, I, or any of us aren't putting those tires through what the Farnbachers are capable of putting them through on a circuit like the Ring, there is no comparison, and you are looking at an on lap and a flyer each time so double your mileage with those two wildmen wheeling the car.

Andy

[stradman]

You, I, or any of us are putting those tires through what the Farnbachers are capable of putting them through on a circuit like the Ring, there is no comparison, and you are looking at an on lap and a flyer each time so double your mileage with those two wildmen wheeling the car.

Andy

^^^^ This Absolutely spot on Andy. I think on reflection, and after the dust has settled, given the lack of similar support that say Porsche had that you mentioned, the Kumhos given the conditions did probably ok on balance.
I think if I was racing the ACR then slicks would be in order. For track days for amateur enthusiasts like myself, the Kumhos will be fine because there is NO WAY you're average punter is going to abuse these tires in the same way the Pros do. By comparison, I did 2 days at the ring over 20 laps with same tires that I had used on a previous track day. Dominik and crew couldn't get through 1 maybe 2 laps and the tires were toast! Yes ok I was just over a minute slower(first time there) but even with practice I will never get to within 25- seconds of these guys so there is a very good margin-provided you look after your pressures etc....

[timberwolf]

Snorman very solid and acurate post. I would like to discuss a conversation I had while I was there after we ran the second 7:03 lap with an Engineer from Porsche that was in charge of lap/record attempts for Porsche.

He explained to me that they would lap their "Ring" cars basically for a full season, testing, tweaking, changing the cars to get them to run the numbers that they wanted. Their tire manufacturer would create whatever compound was needed to stand up to the lap and get them the best result, they would have a/b/c revisions of the same tire that all looked the same to the naked eye. Then they would wait and run the car during the most optimal conditions, usually in mid October. They would go out with tire, powertrain, and aero engineers with their hottest shoe and lay down a lap that they had already run several times before. Basically unlimited time, unlimited budget, on a track that they live, and design on.

He asked me where everyone else was, and I didn't understand him at first, he said where is your support? I had to explain to him that the handful of people that he saw WAS the onsite support and that we were the extension of 1,000's of Viper Owners, and Viper devotees across the world that had spent their own money to make the effort a reality. He was blown away by what we were running in those conditions with the support that we had. I asked him what he thought the 918 would have run in those same hot conditions and he said 7:03-7:05 with a smile.

I am proud of the car, I am proud of the people that worked so hard over there, I am proud of our owners, and I am proud as an owner.

ViperExchange: Ben Keating,Bernie Katz, Andy Wheeler, Morgan Day
Prefix: Dick Winkles, Jahn Dolphin, Kim Zeile
Riley Technologies: Matt B
Crew Chief: Joe Kallas
Mintgen Motorsports: Michael Mintgen and his Team
Drivers: Dom and Mario Farnbacher, Luca Stolz
Russ Oasis
Kumho Tire: Manfred and the folks on site there.
Dale from The Bridge to Gantry
Nurburgring staff that fell in love with the idea of the effort and kept working with Russ and Bernie for windows of track time.
Colin Fox and his excellent camera crew
The kid at the front desk of the hotel that put up with Dick Winkles calling him at 1 in the morning to tell him that there was a party going on next door, when Winkles damn well knew that there was a Techno Concert going on at the ring LOL.
The list goes on and I know that I am forgetting some people and I will apologize for that upfront.

This is marvelous information and good intel. I think I got a tear in my eye reading this. #humbled

[Viper Girl]

All of you did an amazing job Andy, truly...

The best part is no one got hurt, the cars can be repaired. Hopefully the cars go to a home worthy of such a warrior.

PLUS the 'Ring Team each and everyone of you were amazing Ambassadors for the Viper Nation. I really believe you won the respect of people half a World away.

The 'Ring team brung it... No doubt

Thanks guys hopefully there is a movie, I'll be first in line to see it.

[RedTanRT/10]

Russ/Andy, thanks for all the updates you've been posting through this journey!!! The end is clearly bittersweet, a record on one hand, but knowing the current overall "Ring" record was clearly in site. Thanks so much for everything, and all the folks here in Viperland are so proud of all the accomplishments by the entire team!!!

I'm heading to H-town in a couple of weeks to help my family with their flood problems. They're fairly close to Tomball and hoping to stop by. I never seem to catch Ben there, but I'll tell Bernie, sell this Viper as-is. This is such a piece of viper history, with a record set just one day after the production stopped, and such a great underdog story of accomplishment!!! If I had the $$$ and a place to display, I'd build a monument for the last and fastest Viper ever!!!

[gfviperman]

What an absolutely outstanding effort any the Team and the Cars!!!

In 23 years of Viper ownership, this ranks right up there with all the car's amazing accomplishments!!!

So proud of all ...

[ACRucrazy]

Man this turned to an absolute PR NIGHTMARE for Kuhmo...

If anything I think they are going to lose trust/sales from this event.

Glad everyone was ok! Thanks again to Viper Exchange and all the guys that helped make this happen! Andy even if you feel/felt like you guys came up short it was definitely not from a lack of effort and I think everyone knows how hard you guys were trying!

Kumho stepped up and made a tire for the ACR when no one else would.
Kumho stepped up and sponsored the Ring attempt when Dodge would not.

I say props to Kumho.

[ViperDC]

Kumho stepped up and made a tire for the ACR when no one else would.
Kumho stepped up and sponsored the Ring attempt

I say props to Kumho.

agreed

[FLATOUT]

Kumho stepped up and made a tire for the ACR when no one else would.
Kumho stepped up and sponsored the Ring attempt when Dodge would not.

I say props to Kumho.

Also agreed. You wouldn't have the 13 US track records without that tire either. Nurburgring is a unique place all to it's own.

[TheMadMachinist]

I just read that Lance Arnold did a 7:01.3 his first lap and then on his second lap the left front tire failed and he hit a guard rail.6545.png

[Unlimtd]

Man this turned to an absolute PR NIGHTMARE for Kuhmo...

If anything I think they are going to lose trust/sales from this event.

Glad everyone was ok! Thanks again to Viper Exchange and all the guys that helped make this happen! Andy even if you feel/felt like you guys came up short it was definitely not from a lack of effort and I think everyone knows how hard you guys were trying!

Hopefully, anyone with half a brain will understand that the specs for the tires for the ACR Extreme were the specs approved by Dodge. And the specs were "right on" since they resulted in many track records. To my knowledge, no one has reported any track day problems in the States on our tracks due to the OEM tires. The issue here, as Russ said above, was time and money. Also, the time of year. Better, cooler, less humid weather would have allowed for better track times with less stress on tires that were not designed for such a long track. But, with that said, I wonder if using the non ACRE stock tires would have helped assuming that they can be used with the amount of down force produced by the ACRE. But, using the non ACRE stock tires might have resulted in someone saying the car was not OEM stock and would not have been consistent with Khumo's sponsorship.

[Ghazdall]

Ideally, there would be two compounds offered, the soft compound for short track qualifying laps and a more durable compound for track days, but it's an unreasonable ask for a tire maker given the limited market of Viper ACRs.

Incredible effort by everyone involved! I'm really happy to have contributed to the project and be part of this fantastic send off for the Viper.

[John N]

Just piling on here with the accolades for the underdog attempt of the decade. This is analogous to a privateer team showing up for a NASCAR race and placing, 2nd or 3rd (take your pick based on perception of other manufacturers status). This effort earns nothing but Respect for all involved, maybe that should be RESPECT. Well done team, even if you came up a little short of hopes the bar has been raised and the pedigree of the car enhanced greatly. Well done.

Thank you VE for the use of the cars. I know this was a risky venture for the company and damages were indeed incurred. I hope it works out in the end, the cars definitely have provenance now.

[Boosted Motorsports]

Kumho stepped up and made a tire for the ACR when no one else would.
Kumho stepped up and sponsored the Ring attempt when Dodge would not.

I say props to Kumho.

Oh I completely agree and kudos (kumhos?) to them for everything they have done.

I was just pointing out that it is unfortunate that tire failures were the nail in the coffin for the final attempt and the PR so far has outlined the tire failures already. Just wish it didn't go down this way as does everyone else rooting for this attempt.

[SRT_BluByU]

Kumho stepped up and made a tire for the ACR when no one else would.
Kumho stepped up and sponsored the Ring attempt when Dodge would not.

I say props to Kumho.

absolutly! wont hesitate at all tp use them! great effort and job to all! would love to see a VOA event at viper exchange or nearby to celebrate all the accoplishments!

[Viper Girl]

Yes, Props to Kumho for making the street-legal Kumho Ecsta V720 tires (295/25 front, 355/30 rear on factory 19-inch wheels) that powered the ACR E to track records!

Not to be forgotten:

Prefix - for jumping in with sponsorship and Spare Engines
Viper Exchange- because all they do to promote our favorite car, and sending 2 new cars to the ‘Ring
Drivers - Luca Stolz, Mario and Dominik Farnbacher, Lance Arnold for doing their best and still being here to tell the tale! Mintgen Racing - shelter, race mechanics, data, tools, setup, strategy, fuel, food, beverages, homemade desserts and helping get the cars on the track, & back and forth to the track.


Russ Oasis for Championing the effort, you did a great job Russ!


AND of course the Viper Nation for funding The 'Ring Dream.

[SharpMan]

Amazing story!

And props to Kumho and the whole team!

[Pappy]

Viper Stradman at the Ring.jpg

With respect to the Kumhos, I think we have entered a new era in capability requirements of a street tire on a high downforce vehicle that is capable of the rigors of a track like the Ring. Take a look at the amount of force being generated by the combination of the aero and banking on Stradman's car. The front Kumhos are only rated at a max of 1323 lbs (at 51 PSI), while the rears are rated at 1709 lbs. I can't tell you what the fronts are good for at 30-or-so psi, but certainly less than the 1323 Max. A 3500 # car (with driver and cage) with a couple of thousand lbs of downforce PLUS loading due to abrupt onset of track banking could easily push (or exceed) the limits of the tires' load rating. Some of the other fast cars are doing it with less aero/less drag and big horsepower, so they may not be facing the same issues - yet. The new ZR1 Corvette looks like it will have a big wing, so I suspect Michelin will have its work cut out for it. I think the Kumhos are fine for our average track days as long as you manage the tire pressures, but for anything longer in endurance or on high banked ovals would probably be safer on slicks. Just my personal thoughts.

Pappy

[FLATOUT]

Very sound logic here, many of the same thoughts went through my head while we were there.

Viper Stradman at the Ring.jpg

With respect to the Kumhos, I think we have entered a new era in capability requirements of a street tire on a high downforce vehicle that is capable of the rigors of a track like the Ring. Take a look at the amount of force being generated by the combination of the aero and banking on Stradman's car. The front Kumhos are only rated at a max of 1323 lbs (at 51 PSI), while the rears are rated at 1709 lbs. I can't tell you what the fronts are good for at 30-or-so psi, but certainly less than the 1323 Max. A 3500 # car (with driver and cage) with a couple of thousand lbs of downforce PLUS loading due to abrupt onset of track banking could easily push (or exceed) the limits of the tires' load rating. Some of the other fast cars are doing it with less aero/less drag and big horsepower, so they may not be facing the same issues - yet. The new ZR1 Corvette looks like it will have a big wing, so I suspect Michelin will have its work cut out for it. I think the Kumhos are fine for our average track days as long as you manage the tire pressures, but for anything longer in endurance or on high banked ovals would probably be safer on slicks. Just my personal thoughts.

Pappy

[SSGNRDZ_28]

First off, great effort by all who were involved. 100% has to go right in racing to win plus a little luck. We basically had 3 first laps by 3 different drivers given the weather and other circumstances. We can't buy luck - but more money means more chances for that perfect condition/lap/driver/setup. We had less of those opportunities than most people who run under a manufacturer budget. Kumho... we wouldn't have done a 7:10 lap under the same budget without the unlimited tire supply. Can't say enough about what they did for this effort including tires and data analysis. For a production record we live and die by what comes stock on the car. All the lap records in the US combined with a podium at the ring isn't bad at all. Again, can't understate the budgetary disadvantages we had - even given the generosity of the Viper community. We know the car is one of (if not the) the fastest track cars to date (and probably ever, under the manual, N/A, RWD formula).

[ViperGeorge]

Very sound logic here, many of the same thoughts went through my head while we were there.

Andy, so I fully agree that those guys would drive harder than you or me or most of us. But if instead of doing 4 laps on the Daytona 24 hour track, what if I did 8 laps or 10? Would that put me in the danger zone. When I ran the One Lap of America in my ACR-E I could not use the Kumhos. They weren't legal for the event. I ended up running Michelin PS2s in the front (295/30/18) and Michelin PSSs in the rear (345/30/19). Both the front and rear Michelins have higher load ratings than the Kumhos (by hundreds of pounds). Obviously they don't have the grip of the Kumhos though.

[ACRucrazy]

Fastest production truck engine ever!

[FLATOUT]

I don't think so George, there are a lot of other factors that come into play at the ring that wouldn't at Daytona. The ring has very steep curbing in some fast sections, huge compressions, and some very high sustained speeds. When you add downforce to that equation your asking a lot out of any tire. I just don't see Daytona having that same combination of factors.

Andy, so I fully agree that those guys would drive harder than you or me or most of us. But if instead of doing 4 laps on the Daytona 24 hour track, what if I did 8 laps or 10? Would that put me in the danger zone. When I ran the One Lap of America in my ACR-E I could not use the Kumhos. They weren't legal for the event. I ended up running Michelin PS2s in the front (295/30/18) and Michelin PSSs in the rear (345/30/19). Both the front and rear Michelins have higher load ratings than the Kumhos (by hundreds of pounds). Obviously they don't have the grip of the Kumhos though.