GEN III IV to GEN V Frame Conversion

[viperguy69]

Bought a Gen 5 salvage about a year ago. The Gen 5 frame was bent on the drivers side (front and back) then spun around and damaged the front passenger side as well.

As a result, straightening the current frame was a non-starter.

However, I had a brand new Gen IV frame I purchased a few years earlier... frame had never been VIN'd or had a single part put onto it. So, I decided to embark on a restoration project using my GEN IV frame and GEN 5 salvage with parts I had purchased over the last year.

I knew there would be some differences between the last generation and current generation. However, at every turn I am discovering some other issue or difference.

So, I am looking for someone who has gone through the process to tell me where not to waste my time or where I really need to make an adjustment to the frame because if I do not make the adjustment it will not work based on experience.

What I am going through at this moment... and if anyone out there already did this conversion please advise...

Current issues:

1) Door Strikes on GEN III/IV vs GEN V... old straight up and down... new are on a diagonal?

2) Rear Panel and the extra 4" in cabin of the new viper vs old

3) Emergency Brake setup

4) Seats and seat rack... new viper is at 19" and old Viper is at 18" and the new viper mounts front rack almost 2" further to the rear... now the 4" cabin addition is starting to make sense...

5) Engine Mounts... I was going to convert to new mounts but is the loss of 3HP worth it? The issue with cutting the old engine mounts for new style engine mounts could result in a negative gain if you are off on your new welds by a degree or two...

6) Gas pedal at a different mount point, needs to go left about 1" vs current mount location.

added on 28 July 2017...

7) The Cowl does not align perfectly to the frame. Two of the mounts on the passenger side are out of sync by about 1" and the gap after mounting is off a little as well. The two alignment bolt fit very snug and could use a little more play for adjustment.

8) The Gas tank bolts to mount the gas take are inverted... no issue, just mount the strap the other way.

9) The rear bumper tub mounting brackets need to be moved about another in to the rear and cut down about 5/8"

10) The Gen V oil cooler bracket needs to be remounted.

11) The Gen V ABS bracket needs to be remounted.

12) The Gen IV frame front bumper needed the ends cut off, the Air Bag sensors remounted, the horn bracket cut down, and the front bumper mounts cut to allow the front opening hood hinged and mount to be installed without obstruction.

13) Various holes had to be drilled into the frame to allow for brake line mounting and air bag sensors.

14) Transmission Tunnel - electrical harnesses and other mounted hardware mounting studs had to be cut from the GEN V frame and remounted onto the GEN IV frame.

15) Carpet in the GEN IV frame is shorter then the GEN V Carpet. And the mount point holes are in a different location.

16) Rear brake line mounting point does not exist, the mount is steel on either side of hardware. Gen V uses a metal tube in the same area and the brake line is mounted to the face of the metal with a rivet nut.

17) Rear brake line aluminum block has needs to be mounted into the frame and the brake lines need to be bent very slightly at the angles to be mounted to the inside acing surface as there is no room to mount under rear brace due to differential support bracket configuration in the GEN III/IV.

added on 18 AUG 2017...

18) Transmission Tunnel - transmission cross member support is over two inches short of where it needs to be - redesign in the GEN V puts the brace at the rear of the transmission and as a result the support has been moved further back.

19) Inner Wheel Wells - had to drill 2 holes and insert 3 x rivet nuts into frame to support new structure.

20) Mounting Points - various holes had to be drilled into frame to properly mount brake lines, electrical cables and other hardware.

21) ABS module is different and mounting bracket is different as well. Using GEN IV brake lines is not really practical - issue I had was that MOPAR does not have driver side front driver's side brake lines available for the GEN V Vipers!

added on 9 OCT 2017...

22) Rear frame is about an inch Longer in the Gen IV then the Gen V... having bumper mounting issues with. Current solution is to do away with the Styrofoam Bumper support to see if it will mount without modification.

23) Rear brake lines had no frame location near the rear wheels to mount the brake hoses. The pillars in the Gen V are solid tube steel. The Pillars in the Gen IV are plate steel and no not have any face steel to mount to. So, I mounted flipped the brackets, bent them at 90 degrees and mounted them to the side plate steel structure.

24) Door latches are different. Using the existing latches with current mount points do not allow the doors to be pulled fully closed, about 1/8 slop. Looking to buy either Gen IV door mount brackets or to widen the to top mounting screw point to allow the bolt to move the 1/8 it needs to properly close.

25) Gen V has so many more mounting holes for electrical lines, brake lines, fuel lines that I wish I had paid more attention when the frame was bare... you need every mounting point holes drilled!


more to follow....

[viperguy69]

I will provide pictures of my project in a few days...

[donk_316]

thanks for clarifying.

Probably be easier to just built a tube chassis for the G5 parts

[ViperPete]

You sir have a lot of time on your hands.
I think a Gen 2 GTS body on a Gen 5 frame would be a lot cooler of a conversion honestly.
Good luck!

[SilverACR]

You sir have a lot of time on your hands.
I think a Gen 2 GTS body on a Gen 5 frame would be a lot cooler of a conversion honestly.
Good luck!

I think he is doing a gen4 chassis and a gen5 body... he clearly wants a viper in the worst way!!! Go for it man!!! TT setup while you're at it!

I would do it if I had the time and resources. I would build a gen4 or 5 race car in a heartbeat!

[Mark1107]

You would spend a hell out of a lot less time using a frame straightening device like a Chief on your gen v frame, than trying to use a gen 4 frame, but it's your time and money so please keep us posted! It's sounds like a lot of money and time.

[Mark1107]

You got the wrecked Stryker purple one?

[ViperGTS]

So, do we see a post in a few years like: bought a GEN-5 Viper and found out that the frame is a Gen-3/4?

The worst I saw in ~20 years was a so called Gen-2 GTS.
Front from an RT/10 and back from a GTS - welded together.
And, somebody bought it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[V10Sidepipes]

So, do we see a post in a few years like: bought a GEN-5 Viper and found out that the frame is a Gen-3/4?

I was thinking more like Gen5 Viper at Gen3 insurance and taxes!

Then I figured it would be more like "Old lady hit my Gen5 and my insurance company gave me a check for a Gen3"...

Sounds like a cool project for a track toy but a possible nightmare on the street.

Post pics either way!

[Voice of Reason]

I don't see how anything good can come from this. You're going to pull your hair out trying to make everything fit, pour more time and energy into it than if you just sold the G4 frame and bought a G5 one. Then as stated earlier some poor fool is going to buy this salvage car and it's going to be a basket case.

[Mark1107]

Original poster isn't responding, lol. We scared him off. I'm bored.....

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Seriously?? What's your time worth... just get the genV frame...

[LATAMUD]

You will have to use the gen3/4 rear toe links or cut and weld the toe link mount bra kets from the gen5. The gen5 knuckles are swapped left to right etc. Compare pics of rear caliper position between both cars and you will see what I am talking about.

[Dan Cragin]

Unless you are a good fabricator with lots of time, I would not try it. The rear portion of the frame and passenger compartment tub differ. If you are building a race car, it might make better sense.

[viperguy69]

Sorry,

My time is only spent on the car on the weekends... time... money... you make the time and you save the money... establish a budget, develop a plan, and then you attack the problem head on!

Budget:
Wrecked GEN V Vehicle for salvage with all the options I was looking for = GTS Carbon edition... $25K - done
New GEN III/IV Frame Found = $4.5K - done - price includes shipping.
Buy all the used parts from FCA Test Vehicles = $11.7K - done
Sell wrecked Carbon Edition parts = $9.2K - done

Time:
Now I have spent about 40 hours cutting up GEN 5 frame for necessary parts - done about 90%
Spent an estimated 20 hours welding and grinding - need about 20 hours more - which I am trying to reduce
Spent an estimated 150 hours driving around the country picking up parts...
Spend countless nights up late at night worrying that you screwed that part up... again... analyze, develop new plan, re-attack the problem...

I enjoyed my last viper but missed building my own toy like used to do with my mustangs... so I was looking for a good challenge...

Taxes... I get to decide what is worth based on $$ spent which I think I am down to about $32K and only need to get the bumpers painted to match the black set of panels I have... but I am looking for another roof so that I can paint it race yellow to match my second set of panels... I will register this a Gen V replica as the car will likely end up with my daughter... and taxes are a lot less than registering it as a GTS at over $125K that the window sticker originally stated... and I will get pictures up... soon... just no laughing and wishing me luck with all the parts scattered to the 4 winds...

[viperguy69]

Getting my camera... where is the button...
13161909_10204704862022002_3359306251439011178_o.jpg13227361_10204704897542890_5551836507853828427_o.jpg13217265_10204704898022902_4004051484381420809_o.jpg13781918_10205095116098110_5410871780059366202_n.jpg13731782_10205095130138461_5018176209075623259_o.jpg

Got a complete set of black panels and another hood already painted black...

Fun Fact on this build... the hood is the Gen V prototype #2 i.e. serial number 0002 before the first car rolled off the line this hood was being inspected by the engineers for form and fit. The six panel vents are installed with wires... four small holes for each vent... I think the top in fiberglass as this hood is a little heavier than my other two remaining hoods... it also does not have the bolts for the lights, it takes screws so I best not over tighten or I will get bolts out of the top of the hood. Hood bolts are a little short and I hope that does not cause issues with mounting.

[ACRucrazy]

Crazy!

[viperguy69]

This week I took the Cowl off the old viper and placed it onto the new... I need Rivet nuts but they just don't make the size I need... test fitted a few of the Gen V to the Gen iii/iv frame

I grinded down the weld and need to do some clean up and I cut the bumper mount to allow the hood to open forward and mounted one X-Brace bracket, oil pump bracket, cut the old fender brackets off, and the hood mounts (I think I may need to try again on one of them as it turned about an 1/8")

IMG_3955.jpgIMG_3956.jpgIMG_3957.jpgIMG_3954.jpg

[viperguy69]

As for hauling hoods... I made a jig so that I could mount the hood without secure straps ... NY to VA at top speeds and not a single issue!

IMG_3304.jpg

[ViperSmith]

Crazy!

He is a Marine what do you expect?



Good luck on the project.

[viperguy69]

ViperSmith is like 15 miles away from me... might need to check out your viper at a swap meet or two to figure out where my box of extra screws and bolts might go!

And if this project just is not going to work out then I will fall back to my "plan Xit" as the ultimate solution, done it before!

My Solution.jpg

[ACtechOPS]

I did the same thing for hood transport, welded up a jig out of 1" square tube using the old hood as a template. Hood attached using factory mount points and latch. U-bolted the jig to my roof rack and went to Ohio to pick up a new hood. Fastened it to the jig in about 5 minutes and it never moved. It appears great minds think alike, but I did it first! Old hood is now fastened to the wall via the jig as art. Very cool project, could definitely dive into it.

[ACRucrazy]

I think I recall seeing this carbon on eBay several months back.

[viperguy69]

I did the same thing for hood transport, welded up a jig out of 1" square tube using the old hood as a template. Hood attached using factory mount points and latch. U-bolted the jig to my roof rack and went to Ohio to pick up a new hood. Fastened it to the jig in about 5 minutes and it never moved. It appears great minds think alike, but I did it first! Old hood is now fastened to the wall via the jig as art. Very cool project, could definitely dive into it.

lol... everyone wants to take credit for the bright ideas... Ok, then I was the first to publish a picture with the solution of hood hauling without straps. However, I think a metal rack rig would be much better. Maybe I will make a metal rack that can be broken down as I think I will need to hauling hoods to my painter... or maybe prefix will sell me one of those painting jigs so I can just mount it onto a trailer...

Also, does anyone know if changing your car from KPH to MPH is as simple a changing out the SPEEDO Cluster? I bought a new one and then starting thinking there may be more to it, like a PCM flash, then just changing it out. I did not like the KPH cluster, but I guess that made this Carbon Edition even more scarce...

[ViperSRT]

Is this a Gen V? If so isn't the mph to mph just a selection in the menu system?