TT ACR vs built turbo Supra vs built Mustang

[Junkie]

Really interested in keeping up with your engines progress. Doing any oil samples? Testament to the strength of this awesome engine and Nth Moto's engineering. How many miles do you have on the build?

2200 miles on the turbo setup so far!

[ZeeViper]

Ok...flame suit on (and I know you can hit me with flames ) and I really love the Nth moto build quality and attention to detail, but it kinda seems like these setups should be faster than they are on the streets? Or am I just an idiot?? I would have though those setups with the weight they are sporting would have gotten worked pretty hard on all attempts.

Just curious really, not trying to start any shit.

Dane

[Crash]

Ok...flame suit on (and I know you can hit me with flames ) and I really love the Nth moto build quality and attention to detail, but it kinda seems like these setups should be faster than they are on the streets? Or am I just an idiot?? I would have though those setups with the weight they are sporting would have gotten worked pretty hard on all attempts.

Just curious really, not trying to start any shit.

Dane

Problem is the numbers posted are guesses at best. Will's car is the only one with somewhat accurate numbers listed.

[Junkie]

Ok...flame suit on (and I know you can hit me with flames ) and I really love the Nth moto build quality and attention to detail, but it kinda seems like these setups should be faster than they are on the streets? Or am I just an idiot?? I would have though those setups with the weight they are sporting would have gotten worked pretty hard on all attempts.

Just curious really, not trying to start any shit.

Dane

Both the other cars I raced have ran 8's at 160+.... I stayed right with them/in front of them on several races, that seems VERY fast to me for a car with 2000lbs of down force and a stock motor.

What would you like the outcome to be? Honestly, that wasn't a jab just a question.

[ZeeViper]

Wow, 8's is ripping.

I thought you would have yanked them easily. With the turbos making tons of torque I didn't think the aero would have come into play.

Knowing the Supra was 1000whp and its power band being nothing like the viper (8.4l vs 3.0l) and its weight I was expecting a blow out. I am really trying to treat lightly. I had a 240sx with a 2jz @18psi (with the manual 6spd) so I'm familiar with the power delivery. The viper is on a whole other level as far as far powerband, coupled with tt that thing has to be such a blast.

Above all SICK CAR.

[Vipes]

Awesome runs! Your car is crazy fast. It would be cool to go against a stock viper also to put it into perspective.

[Junkie]

Wow, 8's is ripping.

I thought you would have yanked them easily. With the turbos making tons of torque I didn't think the aero would have come into play.

Knowing the Supra was 1000whp and its power band being nothing like the viper (8.4l vs 3.0l) and its weight I was expecting a blow out. I am really trying to treat lightly. I had a 240sx with a 2jz @18psi (with the manual 6spd) so I'm familiar with the power delivery. The viper is on a whole other level as far as far powerband, coupled with tt that thing has to be such a blast.

Above all SICK CAR.

MPH is what wins roll races, the lack of torque is a common misconception with Supras imo. I've built 4 of those cars, all of which have made 1200-2000hp, its VERY hard to out run a properly setup Supra. I won't list the power of the car listed, because he's a friend. But I had a very similar combo that made 1250+whp/1000+wtq. With those cars you are capable of making 1000+ at 4k rpms and you don't have to shift until 9k rpms, thats a GIANT power band. Thats why Supras have always done so well in competition against other cars, its a simple power band combination.

Aero is a much bigger factor than torque Imo, torque would matter if we were racing off idle but with everyone getting a good hit in the power band it really isn't a giant ordeal.

As far as weight goes, the Supra is 3400lbs and my car is 3600lbs, so that also goes to the Supra win column. I'm honestly incredibly impressed that my car runs very even with him. I thought I was going to get driven away from in high gear very badly which wasn't the case at all.

[Snakebit10]

I'm surprised any one would have a problem with a Supra running with a TT Viper. They must not have been around the last 20+ years hehe. At one point it was the undisputed king of highway pulls. Just a nasty package with 20+ years of aftermarket R&D under its belt. Supra's will never be irrelevant when it comes to contests of acceleration. So basically this TT ACR is an 8 sec capable car based on its performance against these two monsters. Can't wait to see some measured tests with the TT snake like 1/4, 1/2 mile etc. Love the Nth setup.

[7TH_SIGN]

Don't sleep on the cars the ACR went up against. Those are extremely fast setups. My last Supra was an 8 second 1/4 mile car and on the streets there wasn't much that could hang with it. Having owned five Supras now I can tell you off a highway roll a built Supra can be tough to beat. The mix of powerband and high rpms make it a monster up top. "Lack of torque and turbo lag" with the Supra has always been over exaggerated in my opinion.

[Vipes]

I second the Supra comments. I usually had to find a liter bike to have a good race in my Supra.

[socal]

If I'm not mistaken, the viper is the only reliable 8 second stock long block vehicle in the history of cars. That's a pretty big deal.

[Junkie]

If I'm not mistaken, the viper is the only reliable 8 second stock long block vehicle in the history of cars. That's a pretty big deal.

That's cool for sure, but it doesn't take away from how great other platforms are as well

[1.8t]

To me a TT Vipers biggest claim to fame has always been big hp pump gas performance(though E85 has closed this gap substantially) and reliability in a high hp state. Simply put, we are spreading the power across more cylinders and due to the displacement, there is less power adder required for big power. My old TT Gen 2 made 750whp on 93oct and never broke, ever. Hell, the new owner cranked it up to over 850whp and it still hasn't missed a beat. A fully forged stock Viper engine can take far more of a beating than people realize. I don't expect any issues from Junkie's motor as long as the tune is on point.

[ViperDC]

Just nasty! Between the anti lag flames and road presence and look and performance....nothing short of a P1 or 918 even compares.

TT Lamborghini would like to have a word with you.


Sweet ACR and great video. No drawn out BS just "here's the cars and here's the races"

Did you have to do anything to strengthen up the trans or rear end?

[ClayR]

Cool Video Will. Love the flames.

[TrackAire]

Both the other cars I raced have ran 8's at 160+.... I stayed right with them/in front of them on several races, that seems VERY fast to me for a car with 2000lbs of down force and a stock motor.

What would you like the outcome to be? Honestly, that wasn't a jab just a question.

Not only is this car fast but it looks incredible...by far my favorite color. There are a lot of fast cars around, but a lot of them look like a piece of turd. Being fast and looking great is tough to do.

I have a tech question about the flames...I expect to see them out the exhaust outlet but what or why are there flames released under the car just behind where the motor ends? (around 2:07 of the video) Is there some sort of blow off valve or device for the anti lag there?

[Zach]

MPH is what wins roll races, the lack of torque is a common misconception with Supras imo. I've built 4 of those cars, all of which have made 1200-2000hp, its VERY hard to out run a properly setup Supra. I won't list the power of the car listed, because he's a friend. But I had a very similar combo that made 1250+whp/1000+wtq. With those cars you are capable of making 1000+ at 4k rpms and you don't have to shift until 9k rpms, thats a GIANT power band. Thats why Supras have always done so well in competition against other cars, its a simple power band combination.

Aero is a much bigger factor than torque Imo, torque would matter if we were racing off idle but with everyone getting a good hit in the power band it really isn't a giant ordeal.

As far as weight goes, the Supra is 3400lbs and my car is 3600lbs, so that also goes to the Supra win column. I'm honestly incredibly impressed that my car runs very even with him. I thought I was going to get driven away from in high gear very badly which wasn't the case at all.

So few people understand how "torque" actually works. There's no motor in the world that connects a crankshaft to the ground, you always have to go through a transmission, diff, then a tire. All three are torque multipliers. Power doesn't change, but torque is multiplied several times before power is transferred to the ground, so torque is a meaningless number unless you're just excited about a car that makes peak power at low rpm. I would guess that Will's ACR is full boogie from around 3krpm to redline, whatever that is. A proper 76mm Supra is full boogie from 5krpm to 9krpm, and a gear change never puts you below 5500 or so. Turbo cars in general make a ton of power under the curve and the gearing in the Supra was good out of the box. Centrifugal blower cars are very RPM dependent, so you'll see a curve that looks like a diagonal line instead of a wide plateau and a lot less area under the curve. (see also: why did my xxx horsepower vette get drug by a xxx horsepower turbo car)

All that aside, for Will's ACR to do what it does on a stock motor, a clutch that's easy to drive, and 19 inch tire is phenomenal. A Supra has a lot of compromises at 1200+ but is still an extremely fast car. 15s, clutch, powerband moved higher, etc, make it much more of a single-purpose vehicle.

[7TH_SIGN]

I have a tech question about the flames...I expect to see them out the exhaust outlet but what or why are there flames released under the car just behind where the motor ends? (around 2:07 of the video) Is there some sort of blow off valve or device for the anti lag there?

His wastegates are dumping to the atmospher.

[Racingswh]

so torque is a meaningless number unless you're just excited about a car that makes peak power at low rpm..

Can you expand upon what you mean?

I am always concerned with when a car makes power and how the curve looks and not really concerned with how much it makes. When a car makes 500 ft lbs of tq and does so at 2800 rpm I know that it's going to get me off a corner more quickly than a similarly geared and tired car that makes 500 ft lbs of tq at 4000 if we are coming off a 50 mph 3rd gear corner at 2800 rpm where you would run out of gear before trackout as well as having to contend with unwanted wheelspin if you left it in 2nd gear.

I am not sure how "It's a meaningless number" applies and just trying to better understand. Maybe in this type of driving like in the video it means something else?

Also I am curious why doesn't anyone drag race these cars? That's something I am terrible at and takes a tremendous amount of skill.

This type of driving just seems to be centered on the car and how much money was spent on it with nothing to do with the person driving it. Just wouldn't hold my attention.

The builds themselves are pretty awesome and the cars look great!!

[BrianACR]

I'd love to watch the speedometer climb while you're doin those pulls!

[ZeeViper]

Torque is actually the most meaningful number haha. As it is a direct correlation to cylinder pressure upon combustion, and horsepower is a function of torque times rpm...but whatever

I made mention to it because the additional drag of the aero should have been mitigated by the tons of torque available. Why do liter bikes that make tons of power suffer when the drag gets high at higher speeds ? Lack of torque.


Makes sense about the raised redline in the Supra, I totally forgot those guys can rev to the moon with the right setup. Coupled with the turbo comin on full boil up at 4K I get it now.

[Junkie]

I disagree about torque being the most important number in a race like this. My Supra out ran a lot of cars making way more torque than I ever did.

Time in power band, RPM range after the shift and power at the hit seem to be very important to me.

[Zach]

Torque is actually the most meaningful number haha. As it is a direct correlation to cylinder pressure upon combustion, and horsepower is a function of torque times rpm...but whatever

I made mention to it because the additional drag of the aero should have been mitigated by the tons of torque available. Why do liter bikes that make tons of power suffer when the drag gets high at higher speeds ? Lack of torque.


Makes sense about the raised redline in the Supra, I totally forgot those guys can rev to the moon with the right setup. Coupled with the turbo comin on full boil up at 4K I get it now.

Power is what overcomes aero drag, not torque. Again, torque is multiplied through the drivetrain, it's not a useful number at all. Bikes have terrible aero, it's not a lack of torque that hurts them up top. Revisit a physics textbook and you'll see that I'm right. Power= ability to do work. Torque is a force, not the ability to do work over time.

[38D]

Power is what overcomes aero drag, not torque. Again, torque is multiplied through the drivetrain, it's not a useful number at all. Bikes have terrible aero, it's not a lack of torque that hurts them up top. Revisit a physics textbook and you'll see that I'm right. Power= ability to do work. Torque is a force, not the ability to do work over time.

Which is why F1 cars that have very little torque, but crazy high RPM, are so fast (well and they are super light too).

[socal]

That's cool for sure, but it doesn't take away from how great other platforms are as well

My comment was more in response to the "why aren't the TT vipers faster" post. I mean, how much faster than 8s on a stock long block can you get?!