Selling through Viper Exchange Be careful

[13COBRA]

+1 for Vprbite. My thoughts exactly.

[Vipes]

Looks like there was no misunderstanding or confusion after reading post #20. I agree with the ones saying to call first just in case there is the small chance of a error but in this case it was pretty cut and dry and in the end the OP was correct. Most of us would have a lot more respect for the business if they would have just owned up to what happened.

[biturboamg]

I have talked to Andy who has been great and answered all my questions. I have talked to Bernie via email for a year on cars I wanted to buy, a car we have been talking about him buying from me. He has always been upfront and straight forward. He didn't care if I bought the car he had for sale or just sold him my car. Was quick and no BS. I hope this is a misunderstanding but even the best companies can mess up. If the buyer took the money I would assume he was happy with it or he could have simply said no thanks.

I say this from my own issues buying cars from all over the country and learned the hard way if the car wasn't what I was told I should not accept it and have the shipper return vs dealing with the hassle of a sales person/dealer trying to make it right or string you along. At the end of the day get it all in writing and we are all adults who can pass if we don't like how something is going. I feel bad for the seller if he was mislead and the dealer if they are being bashed for no reason or before they had a chance to fix the issue.

[ViperGTS]

That is some backdoor BS there. They had better make it right with you. There have been other issues with them, and it's only by bringing this crap to light that everyone can make an informed decision as to whether to deal with them or not. I choose not.

I am with Mike - tried to buy a car there and had some questions - got no good answers to put it friendly. End of the story.

[theviper]

First of all, YES all dealers are in this to make money. exactly like every optometrist and radiologist is in it to make money.

By putting opportunists (like yourself Ben) and sales people in the same boat as every physician (in this case, the radiologist is a physician) is ignorant. I don't think you have a clue what physicians have to go through to get to where they are. And for all that hard work, intelligence, and sacrifice, not to mention lost youth and legal stress, they make a fraction of what you make. Most of them had to earn their credentials...they weren't gifted it by their parents. Ben, you're a great driver and I have tons of respect for that, but when your perspective is off, you're statements aren't credible.

[slowhatch]

I've known Bernie, Courtney and the crew for some quite some time so I was hesitant to post this but it needs to be known by the general Viper public.

I have communicated directly with the buyer of my 2008 ACR-X clone that I consigned and sold with Viper Exchange/ BJ Motors for the last few days. He's a radiology resident and I'm an optometrist, so we aren't a few fly by night quacks.

I was told by Bernie prior to sale that I needed to include my spare set of Forgeline Wheels, my new in the box Splitter, and 3.55 Quaife rear diff with the sale of the car in order for the purchase to take place at below my asking price.

I learned tonight directly from the buyer that he paid extra for the Forgeline wheels, did not receive an extra splitter, and declined an added price on the diff. (In other words, I was told to include a set of forgeline wheels, a new splitter and a upgraded diff along with the car at demand of the buyer and then the consigner asked for additional cash from the buyer for two on the listed items). I admit the splitter on the car had a few dings, but was usable given it's track nature. If the splitter was replaced prior to sale then I should have been told. If it was not is was basically given by me under false pretenses. I have no reason to doubt the buyer at this time and have requested a copy of his paperwork if he is inclined to share it. I will gladly correct the record if documented proof of me being wrong is presented.

The way I see it as of tonight, I had at a minimum my diff obtained in questionable circumstances by Viper Exchange in this transaction.

Very unfortunate given that a former VOA president in Houston was taken advantage of in such a way.

You might want to look at other avenues of sale when you need to part with your snake to free up cash in the future.

Anyone that knows me is aware I would not post this lightly or in haste. Call me naive, but I'm both disappointed and aware I need to find another source for the Viper I am looking for now.

It's a shame given that Morgan has been top notch from the start in regards to servicing my cars and giving general advice in the past.

Waow.

[99Vipers]

By putting opportunists (like yourself Ben) and sales people in the same boat as every physician (in this case, the radiologist is a physician) is ignorant. I don't think you have a clue what physicians have to go through to get to where they are. And for all that hard work, intelligence, and sacrifice, not to mention lost youth and legal stress, they make a fraction of what you make. Most of them had to earn their credentials...they weren't gifted it by their parents. Ben, you're a great driver and I have tons of respect for that, but when your perspective is off, you're statements aren't credible.

Great Post....Number of used car salespeople that have degrees?

[ellowviper]

Saw this ALL THE TIME when I worked at a boat dealership in Minnesota. Take a boat in on trade (or consignment) and request the owner provide extra propellers, gas tanks, life jackets, water skis, other assessories to make the sale more "enticing" to the market; and then when the deal is made, all the "included acessories" are offered at a "discounted" rate as part of the deal. The buyer had no idea that the seller included all this stuff as part of the listing price. The Dealer never had the intention of including these items in the sale price...knowing full well he'd offer them for a price to the buyer or even throw them into a deal on another unrelated boat. Like I said, happened EVERYDAY. We had an entire room full of take-off parts and boating assessories that we used as leverage on many deals. Trade ins were great because most of these boats were loaded with stuff that we could 'resell' on other deals.

[ACRSNK]

Howdy to all, I am happy to have the opportunity to respond here. First of all, YES all dealers are in this to make money. exactly like every optometrist and radiologist is in it to make money. Having said that, we provide a service, and we are in it to create happy customers as well.

Mike, you asked ViperExchange to sell your car for you, and we were happy to provide that service. We asked you how much you wanted to receive for the car, and we were able to get you everything you wanted. As far as I am concerned, we did you right. We did what you asked, and we gave you what you wanted.

Radiologist buyer is extremely happy with his purchase. He loves everyone at ViperExchange. He loved his experience. And, has no issue with us whatsoever. After reading your post, we called him make sure he was not upset with us, and he has no complaints. He called you to ask for your set-up information and experience with the car, and unknowingly stepped on a landmine.

I don't really understand why you can't be happy for the guy who bought your car. You got what you wanted, and he is thrilled with it.

I have run an extremely high quality business for many years. I have been transparent and honest. I have supported the Viper community in many ways when other dealers were not. This is a small community. Tomball Dodge did not become the #1 volume Viper dealer for the past 8 years in a row by treating people poorly. You all know that wouldn't last very long.

Soooooo what about the situation with the parts. Why not clear things up and post specifics. You're reply here is kind of a joke.

[13COBRA]

Saw this ALL THE TIME when I worked at a boat dealership in Minnesota. Take a boat in on trade (or consignment) and request the owner provide extra propellers, gas tanks, life jackets, water skis, other assessories to make the sale more "enticing" to the market; and then when the deal is made, all the "included acessories" are offered at a "discounted" rate as part of the deal. The buyer had no idea that the seller included all this stuff as part of the listing price. The Dealer never had the intention of including these items in the sale price...knowing full well he'd offer them for a price to the buyer or even throw them into a deal on another unrelated boat. Like I said, happened EVERYDAY. We had an entire room full of take-off parts and boating assessories that we used as leverage on many deals. Trade ins were great because most of these boats were loaded with stuff that we could 'resell' on other deals.

In order to successfully consign a deal, there has to be a party willing to let go of their car for $XXXXXXX, a party willing to give $XXXXXXX and a party willing to profit $XXXXXXX from the transaction.

In this case, say the OP wanted $100k out of his car (just a round number). The buyer only want to pay $100k or less. If Viper Exchange could sell the car for $100k or less, take the parts and at the end have a transaction price of $105k, (VE making $5k), I don't see the problem in that.

If a dealership is going to consign a vehicle, and make nothing, it was a waste of their time.

Soooooo what about the situation with the parts. Why not clear things up and post specifics. You're reply here is kind of a joke.

Read above.

His reply wasn't a joke. If the seller was happy selling his vehicle, the buyer was happy with his purchase, and VE could make enough profit to justify it....then it's a win-win-win.

I'm not saying it would be ok to flat out lie to the OP about the parts. I'm saying I don't see anything wrong with VE making money while they consign a vehicle.

[ACRSNK]

In order to successfully consign a deal, there has to be a party willing to let go of their car for $XXXXXXX, a party willing to give $XXXXXXX and a party willing to profit $XXXXXXX from the transaction.

In this case, say the OP wanted $100k out of his car (just a round number). The buyer only want to pay $100k or less. If Viper Exchange could sell the car for $100k or less, take the parts and at the end have a transaction price of $105k, (VE making $5k), I don't see the problem in that.

If a dealership is going to consign a vehicle, and make nothing, it was a waste of their time.



Read above.

His reply wasn't a joke. If the seller was happy selling his vehicle, the buyer was happy with his purchase, and VE could make enough profit to justify it....then it's a win-win-win.

I'm not saying it would be ok to flat out lie to the OP about the parts. I'm saying I don't see anything wrong with VE making money while they consign a vehicle.

No one said the dealer shouldn't make money on the transaction. In fact I think it was pretty clear that the dealer would be making money on the transaction as they were facilitating the sale. I think it is the way they went about making the money or how much that is in question here or questionable to say the least. Transparency is key and transactions like this. When people try to squeeze a few pennies out of any given deal for themselves without disclosing how it is being done it usually doesn't turn out well.

[13COBRA]

No one said the dealer shouldn't make money on the transaction. In fact I think it was pretty clear that the dealer would be making money on the transaction as they were facilitating the sale. I think it is the way they went about making the money or how much that is in question here or questionable to say the least. Transparency is key and transactions like this. When people try to squeeze a few pennies out of any given deal for themselves without disclosing how it is being done it usually doesn't turn out well.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and agree; transparency is key.

Say the OP said he wanted $100k for his car. VE gets someone to pay $120k. Pretty quick transaction, right? VE calls customer, tells him that it's sold and he can come pick up his check for $100k.

Back to my original post. It'd be alot easier to judge the entire deal if we knew the following:

1.) How much the OP said he would sell the car for.
2.) How much VE sold the car for, minus accessories.
3.) How much VE sold the accessories for.
4.) The amount of time it took to sell the car.


I believe all those are contributing factors to the story.

Ex 1. If OP wanted $100k for his car, and the buyer wanted to pay $100k; there is no meat on the bone for VE and they have no reason to push the deal through. Now, if OP wanted $100k for his car, and was willing to throw in wheels, splitter, etc to make it happen; great. Now, VE can sell the car for $100k, and then add the price of the accessories, in order to make their time worthwhile in the terms of profit. FAIR WAY OF DOING BUSINESS IMO.

[bluesrt]

I completely understand where you're coming from, and agree; transparency is key.

Say the OP said he wanted $100k for his car. VE gets someone to pay $120k. Pretty quick transaction, right? VE calls customer, tells him that it's sold and he can come pick up his check for $100k.

Back to my original post. It'd be alot easier to judge the entire deal if we knew the following:

1.) How much the OP said he would sell the car for.
2.) How much VE sold the car for, minus accessories.
3.) How much VE sold the accessories for.
4.) The amount of time it took to sell the car.


I believe all those are contributing factors to the story.

Ex 1. If OP wanted $100k for his car, and the buyer wanted to pay $100k; there is no meat on the bone for VE and they have no reason to push the deal through. Now, if OP wanted $100k for his car, and was willing to throw in wheels, splitter, etc to make it happen; great. Now, VE can sell the car for $100k, and then add the price of the accessories, in order to make their time worthwhile in the terms of profit. FAIR WAY OF DOING BUSINESS IMO.

BINGO! people are just too stupid to get that- some people at the end of the day its jelousy and ignorance

[JasonMuscat]

Sounds tantamount to a kid asking mom for XY and Z, then asking dad for the same thing hoping a lack of communication will benefit the chhild. Standard "divide and conquer", information manipulation tactic. Considering the ignorance of the selling party was capatolized apon, he was unable to "agree" to the terms without full knowledge of how the property was to be handled. Im pretty sure there is legal jargon to describe this very thing. Piss poor work ethic at best.

Im sure this basic principle will somehow be convoluted however. It Is astounding to me this practice is even remotly accepted. I must be getting old

[OneofOneViper]

While nothing legally (to my knowledge) was broken, there is a reason that every business major must attend an ethics course. Viper Exchange clearly can't differentiate the difference between ethics and business falling back on the defense that they are in business to make money regardless of how they outright lie to seller (The buyer honestly shouldn't have a complaint for them directly since they agreed to the conditions and VE followed through on the buyer's side of the transaction).

[13COBRA]

Sounds tantamount to a kid asking mom for XY and Z, then asking dad for the same thing hoping a lack of communication will benefit the chhild. Standard "divide and conquer", information manipulation tactic. Considering the ignorance of the selling party was capatolized apon, he was unable to "agree" to the terms without full knowledge of how the property was to be handled. Im pretty sure there is legal jargon to describe this very thing. Piss poor work ethic at best.

Im sure this basic principle will somehow be convoluted however. It Is astounding to me this practice is even remotly accepted. I must be getting old

Here's another very plausible example.

Seller wants $100k for the car. VE is trying to sell it for $105k. Buyer won't pay $105k. VE throws in the accessories, and buyer pays $105k.

Where would be the ethical misstep in that situation?

While nothing legally (to my knowledge) was broken, there is a reason that every business major must attend an ethics course. Viper Exchange clearly can't differentiate the difference between ethics and business falling back on the defense that they are in business to make money regardless of how they outright lie to seller (The buyer honestly shouldn't have a complaint for them directly since they agreed to the conditions and VE followed through on the buyer's side of the transaction).

I studied Ethics and Moral Theory. If the seller agrees to throw in accessories to make the sale work (either for VE or the buyer), and the buyer agrees to pay for it...I don't see where they violated any ethical principles.

Read my example. If that was how it went down, there was no lying taking place. It indeed took the accessories to make the deal feasible and worth it for VE. Buyer paid what he wanted to pay, seller got his money out, VE made money. Win-win-win.

[PittsburghRT]

Makes me never want to deal with Viper Exchange. Sounds like all the seller wanted was an honest transaction with the help of a dealer and of course the dealer got greedy. I also think Ben's response was very poor and unethical. The ones that agree with VE are just a bunch of nut swingers IMO.

[ViperJon]

Of what possible concern is it to the OP what VE does with the car after he has agreed to the terms of them buying it from him?
He's now going to judge what is ethical on it's resale?

[13COBRA]

Makes me never want to deal with Viper Exchange. Sounds like all the seller wanted was an honest transaction with the help of a dealer and of course the dealer got greedy. I also think Ben's response was very poor and unethical. The ones that agree with VE are just a bunch of nut swingers IMO.

Far from a nutswinger.

I've never contacted VE on any vehicle purchase or sale. I've never talked to anyone at VE. I have 0 ties to them in any shape or form.

Read my last example and explain to me how they are in the wrong.

[ellowviper]

I go back to the boat dealership case study. A guy (violin player in Minneapolis) comes in to consign a boat he previously purchased earlier in the year. Beautiful Inboard/Outboad runabout. Complete with nice trailer, sun shade, canopy, and so forth. Works a deal to sell at price "X". Seller is under the impression the boat will be consigned "as is." Why not...since he still owns it. My boss takes possession and swaps out the trailer for a cheaper model. Removes the bikini top, canopy, and other assessories from the "package" to strip down the boat/trailer to a more basic model. Still offering the same consignment price of "X". After a few weeks, the deal sells and the "Owner" gets his consignment price. My boss goes on to later sell the original trailer under another boat and use the 'take off' parts on other deals. Standard and acceptable practice? What if the owner wanted to canx the deal and take his boat back...then what? "Oh..I sold your trailer separately"....

[bluesrt]

that's apples to oranges/ ve never took things off his car and put parts on another car

[13COBRA]

I go back to the boat dealership case study. A guy (violin player in Minneapolis) comes in to consign a boat he previously purchased earlier in the year. Beautiful Inboard/Outboad runabout. Complete with nice trailer, sun shade, canopy, and so forth. Works a deal to sell at price "X". Seller is under the impression the boat will be consigned "as is." Why not...since he still owns it. My boss takes possession and swaps out the trailer for a cheaper model. Removes the bikini top, canopy, and other assessories from the "package" to strip down the boat/trailer to a more basic model. Still offering the same consignment price of "X". After a few weeks, the deal sells and the "Owner" gets his consignment price. My boss goes on to later sell the original trailer under another boat and use the 'take off' parts on other deals. Standard and acceptable practice? What if the owner wanted to canx the deal and take his boat back...then what? "Oh..I sold your trailer separately"....

I don't believe that is the same as this example in any way shape or form.

That is not acceptable. However, if the dealer sold the boat by itself...then sold the standalone stuff after the boat sale, there isn't a breach of implied contract by any means. The seller got what he wanted out of the sale.

[bluesrt]

it all comes down to the seller couldn't sell his stuff, ve could with his facility and knowledge/ seller was happy with the sales till the fact that ve made a dollar off him/now he is not happy with the figure/ kinda like a child not caring about a toy,till another child is interested in it.then the child is pissed he cant have the toy back,cause another child now has it.lol-- who cares if ve got 1 million dollars for it, seller didn't have the way to get rid of it,ve did, and seller was happy with it

[JasonMuscat]

You are missing the seeming fact that the seller was intentionally left in the dark in one respect or another for the sole monetary benefit of the middle man , regardless of the outcome. Ends do not justify the means. It is not the middle mans property and there is an obligation to be forthcoming with how that property is being handled.


The intellectual jiu jitsu is amazing.

[13COBRA]

You are missing the seeming fact that the seller was intentionally left in the dark in one respect or another for the sole benefit of the middle man, regardless of the outcome. Ends do not justify the means

The intellectual jiu jitsu is amazing.

Where was the seller in the dark?

The seller told VE what he would sell it for. VE told him that they would need the accessories to make the deal. The seller gave them the accessories. The car sold for what the seller wanted for it.

It wasn't like VE went into the OP's garage and took the accessories without him knowing.