The Chronicles of SneakySnake Vol III

[One Viper Bite]

This thread is the absolute best.

We should have more of this across the Gen V board. High resolution pictures, detailed write ups. Keep it coming, Alex!

[slowhatch]

Looking good! I'm not as lucky - my wife will not help with car stuff. My daugther is 5 and has helped build a few kits for people with my supervision so maybe that's good enough. Keep the updates coming!

Haha hey at least she puts up with it!

This thread is the absolute best.

We should have more of this across the Gen V board. High resolution pictures, detailed write ups. Keep it coming, Alex!

If people enjoy it I'll keep posting

[1of1TA1.0]

Looking good Alex, all tasteful mods as usual!

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Love the work you've done so far on the car, Alex.
Any data on the smooth tube install being useful for the intake, or is it just a theory?

[dev]

Love this thread..you've already made me spend some money because of it (License Plate/Heat Shield). Now I think about it...maybe I don't like it!!

[ACRSNK]

Very cool!

[slowhatch]

Threw in some Phillips LED reverse bulbs over the weekend. The only bulbs on the car that weren't LED from the factory--now its been rectified. Sorry for the crappy pics, I blame the gf

[slowhatch]

Love the work you've done so far on the car, Alex.
Any data on the smooth tube install being useful for the intake, or is it just a theory?

I don't have concrete evidence of it doing anything; However, the Gen 2 ACRs were equipped with smooth tubes and a k&n drop in from the factory, and if it worked for them, it'll work for us.

[slowhatch]

A few snaps from Viper Nationals this past weekend;

[mackzilla]

[slowhatch]

We all have our good days and our bad days, cars are no different. Sneaky One had a bad day the late afternoon of Viper Nationals. Went to start the car to head home after the event (was all pumped up and ready to tear it up on the way home), she fires up and I swear I hear a faint knock. Oil pressure looks good, idling fine, am I just hearing things? I give it a few seconds to settle in and I can now make out a distinct metallic knocking sound. Well. F*ck. Oil pressure still steady as a rock as I climb out of the car. "Its a good thing I'm still under warranty" I mutter as I pop the hood. Hoods open, and something's most definitely clankin away. It was coming from the top end of the drivers valve cover so no main or rod bearing, whew! I shut the car down and go to hunt out Dick Winkles and Morgan who are still hanging out in the pits. Nothing like having the powertrain engineer who designed the motor and the most experienced viper tech in the world available within arm's reach. Lucky me. We all huddle around the car for a few minutes, ear to the motor like we're diagnosing a heart murmur. The consensus? I have a failed lifter. Shift happens as they say.

Car went to Viper Exchange the following day for the tear down. VE always took care of me and I cant say enough good things about Morgan; his work ethic, attention to detail, and overall knowledge are second to none. As far as I'm concerned, if you're getting work done on these cars, he's unrivaled. Only guy that I trust to take care of my car, like I take care of my car.





Oil pan is off, bores are inspected, oil is drained, and both it and the filter are looked over for debris. Nothing is found.




Look at that swinging pick up!



And that cross hatching on the throws, pure porn!



Morgan pulled the baffles off of the oil pan to clean up some of the rough casting, and I know this is pretty much the story with all automotive castings but damn, after looking over the oil pan, I can see how they've had so much debris in the blocks. These as-cast products have areas that are rough. At least with the pans you can extract most of the debris through shakers/washers and follow with a visual inspection. In the block, with the water jackets and crevices that are out of line-of-sight, good luck.

[slowhatch]

Morgan got the ol girl naked down to the shortblock;




Drivers side



Passenger side






And here is the location of our culprit noisemaker;



You can see one of the rollers is actually damaged from bouncing around on the cam lobe.



One of the lifters got debris either in the main body oil passage or the check valve and was not pumping up and/or holding oil pressure. When that happens, you lose line-to-line contact with the pushrod/cam and you get that familiar clickity racket.

If you need some refresher on hydraulic lifters I found these to be particular helpful. The chrysler video especially, why they don't make handy instructional videos like that anymore I'll never know!

On top of losing contact with the rest of the valvetrain, with a bad lifter you stop the pushrod from loading the rocker arm squarely and can give it some nasty side loads. I think this was the reason for damage on the rocker which sat atop the failed lifter. The additional vibration may have caused the trunnion to move laterally inside the rocker (or the rocker to move laterally on the trunnion). Either way, it was trying to push out that stamped cap which keeps the bearings in place, and ended up chipping it. If that cap had come off all the way and released all those needle bearings into the oiling system, I would have had a worse day.




The lifters were replaced, along with the rocker, and the heads inspected. Everything looked ship shape with no other visible damage, so the re-assembly process began.





This was also a good opportunity to replace those crappy Belanger paper gaskets with some oem steel crush ones. Don't know why the PO had those installed.



She should be back better than new soon. At least I had an opportunity to poke around inside the motor and check things over on someone else's dime. Could of been worse!

[1.8t]

Well that's damn frustrating. How many miles are on the car?

[swexlin]

Lucky you caught this before it failed completely. Phew!

Just re-read your first post - 6000 miles, and passed R28. So, as we've seen brefore, passing R28 means little or nothing. Glad I have the extended warranty.

[v10tt]

Not a bad time to add up a "cleaner" set of heads with some work?

[Stealth78]

Those casting burrs are rather disappointing to see. Posts like yours are very informative and very much appreciated! Seeing those pics though makes me think that there are many more potential engine failures still to come... Just a matter of time.

[Belobog]

The engine work was covered under warranty? I've been considering headers/tune and this is what worries me.

[viperBase1]

Wow Slowhatch.

Sorry to hear the troubles with the Sneaky One (on the one hand) but I know this helps your brain (on the other hand).
Definitely some comfort in seeing with your own eyes and establishing your own baseline.

[slowhatch]

Well that's damn frustrating. How many miles are on the car?

7200 miles when this occured.

Lucky you caught this before it failed completely. Phew!

Just re-read your first post - 6000 miles, and passed R28. So, as we've seen brefore, passing R28 means little or nothing. Glad I have the extended warranty.

Warranty is a good thing to have on these cars, especially if you caught an early '13 car like mine.

Not a bad time to add up a "cleaner" set of heads with some work?

Nope. Now is not the time to part ways with the warranty. We've found the failed component, understand the failure mode, but we still don't have a clue as to the root cause. Where is the debris that clogged the lifter coming from? This could all be an isolated fluke and there is nothing to be concerned about, it could of been varnish of some sort, who knows. Or, the real problem is still there, and will rear its ugly head in the coming months. VE has done everything that can be done to inspect/clean what can be seen, and it appears on the surface we have the issue licked. Before I do anything real to the motor I will drive the car for a few months, do some track days, runway events, etc and we will monitor the motor's oil consumption and contaminant levels. Rest assured if the problem is there, my right foot will find it--and I want SRT's warranty present at the dinner table to sign that crate motor check

Those casting burrs are rather disappointing to see. Posts like yours are very informative and very much appreciated! Seeing those pics though makes me think that there are many more potential engine failures still to come... Just a matter of time.

Maybe, maybe not. It really is a toss up on each specific assembly.

At the end of the day, none of this would ever deter me from owning this car, period. After driving this car the first month (1000+ miles) I would do it over again 11 times out of 10. Yes there are issues, and people tend to catastrophize them but SRT stepped up, gave us an extended warranty and peace of mind. I will continue to enjoy this beast day in day out.

The engine work was covered under warranty? I've been considering headers/tune and this is what worries me.

While you have the Magnuson-Moss warranty act to lean on, warranties on modified engines are a case by case basis. If SRT has reason to believe your modifications are the root cause of the failure, they can tell you to pound sand. Luckily that wasn't the case here.

Wow Slowhatch.

Sorry to hear the troubles with the Sneaky One (on the one hand) but I know this helps your brain (on the other hand).
Definitely some comfort in seeing with your own eyes and establishing your own baseline.

All's well that ends well!

[swexlin]

"Warranty is a good thing to have on these cars, especially if you caught an early '13 car like mine."

Yep, and mine, I have my build is April 1, 2013. If I understand correctly, all 100 of the Red Track Pack cars like mine were built around the same time, and at least two people on this forum, with identical cars to mine, have had engine failures. So, like you, I'll drive the car, and if feces happens, well, there it is. Props to SRT for the extension. Mine is 100% stock (well, R28/29 was done, and I have a new diff under warranty). I must say, you keep things in perspective, and have a good attitude about the whole thing.

[v10tt]

Cam lobes ok?

[viper04]

Cam lobes ok?

You guys are so luck to have one of the best Viper dealer next door..
+1. If there were some damage to the lifter would there also be some damage to the cam? Just asking. Thanks.

[slowhatch]

Cam lobes ok?

You guys are so luck to have one of the best Viper dealer next door..
+1. If there were some damage to the lifter would there also be some damage to the cam? Just asking. Thanks.

Lobes were checked during the tear-down and showed no wear. I would assume the camshaft would be made of a harder (rockwell) material than the lifter.

[TrackAire]

Wow, sorry to hear this.
That oil pan casting is cause for concern IMO.

On another subject, I saw you gassed up at Costco. Our local Costco in NorCal is where my wife buys her gas but I noticed that it is 10% ethanol. I'm not sure if Costco is your go to gas station or if the ethanol ratio is the same where you live, but for max performance in a NA motor, I would think ethanol might not be giving you all the power your car can make. Maybe other fuel experts can chime in here to confirm.

[cashcorn]

Glad everything worked out! Could not of happened at a better place or time for you, with all the Viper support that day. Still waiting to see the lowering caps installed with the spacers.. hehehe