Battery voltage questions re ACR

[stradman]

Hi All,

I would like to know what sort of battery charge one should have. My car is 18 months old and only 1500 miles. My original 18 month old OEM battery in situ with connections on but ignition off, shows on my voltmeter 12.5v. When you put it on a trickle charger it is showing 12.9volts. I have my suspicions however that the battery is not sound, as after say a week off charge when you turned it on it was slow to turn over, and on a couple of other occasions even after a good drive and then leaving it about a week(always indoors in a dehumidified garage I might add), it wouldn't start and needed a booster start. So I bought a brand new battery today with the same CCA but with 52Ahr instead of the stock 35Ahr. I checked the voltmeter on this new battery when I installed it and it showed 13.15 volts sitting in the back with connections in place but ignition off. When I put it on trickle charger it shows 13.7 volts. So it seems there was quite a difference with the OEM .
I have my suspicions that the battery was my problem at my first track day event when my engine shut down along with a CEL light , and also a ETC light as well. As I was sitting there idling cooling off after about 3 hot laps the voltage suddenly dropped from 14.6 to 11.2v , idle went lumpy and engine shut down. You could then only start it for about 15-20 secs even then in that brief start up, idle was lumpy and voltage was still low. Diagnostics showed a P0560 code or systems voltage. So I was wondering what you guys thought about the battery voltage.

[Jack B]

The only correct way to check the bat is with a discharge test. Harbor Freight has discharge testers and they are not expensive.

[TrackAire]

Hi All,

I would like to know what sort of battery charge one should have. My car is 18 months old and only 1500 miles. My original 18 month old OEM battery in situ with connections on but ignition off, shows on my voltmeter 12.5v. When you put it on a trickle charger it is showing 12.9volts. I have my suspicions however that the battery is not sound, as after say a week off charge when you turned it on it was slow to turn over, and on a couple of other occasions even after a good drive and then leaving it about a week(always indoors in a dehumidified garage I might add), it wouldn't start and needed a booster start. So I bought a brand new battery today with the same CCA but with 52Ahr instead of the stock 35Ahr. I checked the voltmeter on this new battery when I installed it and it showed 13.15 volts sitting in the back with connections in place but ignition off. When I put it on trickle charger it shows 13.7 volts. So it seems there was quite a difference with the OEM .
I have my suspicions that the battery was my problem at my first track day event when my engine shut down along with a CEL light , and also a ETC light as well. As I was sitting there idling cooling off after about 3 hot laps the voltage suddenly dropped from 14.6 to 11.2v , idle went lumpy and engine shut down. You could then only start it for about 15-20 secs even then in that brief start up, idle was lumpy and voltage was still low. Diagnostics showed a P0560 code or systems voltage. So I was wondering what you guys thought about the battery voltage.

You just saved yourself a crap ton of issues by putting a new battery in and being done with it. Number one issue I see with Vipers that sit for a month or two (like in a dealers inventory) is the battery gets deep discharged and even when put on a charger they never hold a charge correctly and have internal issues. The Viper does appear to have a lot of parasitic draw when stored (every Generation seemed to be this way) and if the battery is not kept on a good quality battery maintainer, it will be destroyed by deep discharging below 10.5 volts and it will never be able to hold or accept its rated reserve capacity. 12.5 volt is a major warning as it shows the battery is only at 80% of capacity. If you have a good battery, you should be able to park your Viper for a week and it should not drop below 12.8 volts if you're testing it at the battery with a digital battery monitor.

Regarding your trickle charger, make sure it is the type that is automatic and knows when to turn off as to not overcharge the battery. It then automatically cycles on and off with energy pulses to keep your battery in its optimum charged voltage.

[stradman]

You just saved yourself a crap ton of issues by putting a new battery in and being done with it. Number one issue I see with Vipers that sit for a month or two (like in a dealers inventory) is the battery gets deep discharged and even when put on a charger they never hold a charge correctly and have internal issues. The Viper does appear to have a lot of parasitic draw when stored (every Generation seemed to be this way) and if the battery is not kept on a good quality battery maintainer, it will be destroyed by deep discharging below 10.5 volts and it will never be able to hold or accept its rated reserve capacity. 12.5 volt is a major warning as it shows the battery is only at 80% of capacity. If you have a good battery, you should be able to park your Viper for a week and it should not drop below 12.8 volts if you're testing it at the battery with a digital battery monitor.

Regarding your trickle charger, make sure it is the type that is automatic and knows when to turn off as to not overcharge the battery. It then automatically cycles on and off with energy pulses to keep your battery in its optimum charged voltage.

I totally agree with what you say. And on hind sight, I did notice my trickle charger had a flickering light when the battery was supposed to be fully charged. I thought it was just a glitch or something. It never did that before but I've done a google search and it seems my charger lights flickers when the battery is on its way out and it can't fully charge. I thought maybe my charger was faulty but now with the new battery solid light, no flickering and it now shows fully charged! I know this car has many systems that do and can drain down battery and my car did sit at dealership for a while, then long period of time being shipped to UK and therefore probably had some discharge which it just couldn't recover from entirely and on the track with lots of WOT and hot laps, the alternator just couldn't keep it going enough(I also gather that at sustained high rpm driving ie on a track the alternator on an underdrive pulley doesn't really charge the battery in order to preserve power-just like shutting off aircon. So the battery got outed in the end I think.....I thought it was the alternator but I now think was the battery all along. Will put it together and cross my fingers all is well again....

[TrackAire]

I can't remember for sure, but I think you have a 180 amp alternator which is huge. Even with an underdrive pulley, as long as you drive it 20 to 30 minutes very few days the battery is good to go.

Batteries just don't seem to be what they use to (or the manufacturers are going the the absolute lowest bidder when it comes to battery choice)......I've had 3 brand new cars that all needed batteries replaced when near new. My 2009 Viper, 2008 Toyota Sequoia and 2013 Range Rover all crapped out. Once the batteries were replaced they never had an issue again.

The vehicles that are worst for batteries are exotic cars, RV's, boats and Jeep type vehicles that don't get daily driven. Since they don't get driven daily and most people don't keep them on maintainers, they always tend to fail due to deep discharge issues.

Batteries are like milk.....they go bad if not maintained and they don't get better with time, lol.

[A C R]

if/when your battery is charged you might consider using the "hibernation" setting. after setting for a month in "hibernation" mine has always started rite up.

[Policy Limits]

Deltran is your friend ...

[stradman]

Ok guys, so I have now figured out my problem and have this sorted out. Of course I do have to thank Mark Jorgensen for his invaluable patience and help with me on this one. So Many thanks Mark!
So as mentioned in the OP, problem was I wasn't getting voltage and car was stalling after a few hot laps. Initially thought it was alternator as battery was not being charged, got new alternator but problem persisted. Also changed battery as well just in case. Got all sorts of codes with main one relating to power voltage supply. But in light of no charging, this in turn triggered all sorts of other codes, due to the sensitive nature of the sensors to voltage but they were all red herrings. Got auto electrician over to check over all systems including PCM and other connections but couldn't find immediate fault. Then realised the ASD 1 fuse kept blowing every time we started car and that there was a short or current draw somewhere causing the alternator to shut down. As the electrician and I did not know what other circuits were running on the ASD 1 circuit, I asked Mark who basically suggested that I look at the exhaust side of things-mainly the O2 sensor wires. So next day took off sills and started to trace all wires. Lo and behold there was the problem! One of the connectors to the rear O2 sensor had turned into melted BLT sandwich and more interestingly, and despite the heat sleeves from Belanger looking ok from the outside, the wires had melted into one on both sides. This was despite me routing them over rather than through the exhaust tunnel. I am running a full belangers headers and catback exhaust. In the end I have now decided to delete the rear O2 sensor altogether and so unplugged it and quadruple insulated it. I know now that the whole car will melt before any o2 wires or connectors ever melt! So moral of the story you really have to create a NASA like environment/insulation to prevent such problems. Also great to have wiring diagram handy(which I still don't have) to tell you about the various circuits. It would make life so much easier to trace problems. But I am so happy that the Viper's alive again and ready to go into action! 20170409_103910_resized_2.jpg20170409_145542_resized_2.jpg20170409_145608_resized_2.jpg20170409_103858_resized_2.jpg

[q8blueviper]

Im having same exact issue with my car right now , melted o2 connectors, yellow fuse keeps blowing every time I replace it , same codes , the car in limp mode.

What did you do after ? Replacing connectors will fix the problem ?
Any advice

[stradman]

Im having same exact issue with my car right now , melted o2 connectors, yellow fuse keeps blowing every time I replace it , same codes , the car in limp mode.

What did you do after ? Replacing connectors will fix the problem ?
Any advice

If you're running the Arrows controller you don't need the exhaust side o2 sensors so just cut the wires and tape . That's em up. That's one problem out of the way. Then insulate the fuse box as well as any other wire/loom you can find around the header area, as well and put some coating like Swain on your headers. Never have a problem again..

[q8blueviper]

If you're running the Arrows controller you don't need the exhaust side o2 sensors so just cut the wires and tape . That's em up. That's one problem out of the way. Then insulate the fuse box as well as any other wire/loom you can find around the header area, as well and put some coating like Swain on your headers. Never have a problem again..

Yes Im also running arrows controller.
This area needs heat shields all around !!!

Plus side I didn’t melt my connectors same as yours cooked out !

[Jack B]

If you're running the Arrows controller you don't need the exhaust side o2 sensors so just cut the wires and tape . That's em up. That's one problem out of the way. Then insulate the fuse box as well as any other wire/loom you can find around the header area, as well and put some coating like Swain on your headers. Never have a problem again..

Opinion -There is a connector, merely remove the rear o2 and plug. If you cut the O2 cable do it after the connector, than, open the connector.

[Steve-Indy]

q8blueviper, are you running stock or modified exhaust? Aftermarket headers have been melting O2 sensor wiring (and other components) on Vipers for as along as I can remember. Extra insulation procedures have been well documented...coatings, thermal shields, wire "stockings", plug "socks", etc. A warm climate certainly could accelerate the problem.

Replacing all damaged components, adding shielding to wires, connectors, rubber boots, fluid lines, etc. should hopefully solve your problem.

By the way, there is a wiring component overview available from Tech Authority found under the 2017 Viper section. While far from the diagrams and pinouts found in the old manuals, it may be some help.

[ViperGeorge]

There are plenty of threads on here about headers melting stuff. If you melted your O2 wires you can also easily melt wires inside your main wiring harness, the one that goes into the fuse box. The one on my 15 TA 2.0 melted but you couldn't tell from the outside. The outside loom looked fine but inside the wires were melted. You must insulate the hell out of everything. You can also melt the fuse box itself.

It seems to me the problem is more common on Bellangers. I've not heard of this with Amerian Racing Headers but maybe it happens to them too. It is one of the reasons I haven't modified the exhaust on my ACR. When the ASD fuse blows the car will run like crap if at all. It will also throw many codes. One of the codes is a 12V code meaning there is a problem with a 12V circuit. Most sensors are 5 volts. The O2 sensors run 12V to heat the sensor. When this wire shorts it blows the ASD fuse.

[q8blueviper]

Steve-Indy ,ViperGeorge
Im running belanger headers & exhaust.

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks for the info, q8blueviper....hopefully, with proper and thorough heat shielding, all will be well.

By the way, beautiful color combo !!