Check Engine Light

[stevezel]

After 400 mi, light came on.
Tried gas cap, light off.
Light back on, fresh gas, light off.
420 mi, light on, flashing engine cuts back.
Cannot drive will get towed in.
What is the story?
2017 GT.

[dethred]

What code? Use the diagnostic menu in the tach.

[Steve-Indy]

EVIC buttons on steering wheel...read codes as noted above. If you need help, read "Understanding Your Instrument Panel" section in your Owners Manual..section "4".

[Policy Limits]

Yes. Use the up and down arrows on the left hand side of the steering wheel. Select the icon that looks like a stethoscope. It should run a diagnosis and give you codes. What say u?

[stevezel]

OK, will do.
My 8th Viper, never this before.
Steve Z

[Steve-Indy]

Always keep a spare Viper.

[Policy Limits]

I hope it's something small. I just spent 143k on mine and don't want to see this on these. Please keep us updated.

[Dman]

Always keep a spare Viper.

True dat, just make sure one isn't a gen5 or you could have matching CELs.

Good luck, whatever it is, that's what warranty is for, hopefully it's some small silly thing.

[stevezel]

Thanks troops!
3 reads.
Cylinder 3 misfire, P030

Unrecognizable code

2610, PCM engine off timer pref

[Steve-Indy]

FROM THE 2015 SERVICE MANUAL CD:
28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) / Diagnosis and Testing
P0303-00-CYLINDER 3 MISFIRE
For a complete wiring diagram, refer to the Wiring Information.



When Monitored:
The following condition must be met; 1. Engine is running 2. Fuel level above 15% 3. Inlet air temperature above -23°C (–9.4°F) 4. Engine coolant temperature above -7°C (19.4°F) at startup. If coolant temperature is below -7°C (19.4°F) at start, then counter will not be enabled until temperature is above 21°C (69.8°F) 5. Engine speed between 450 and 6400 RPM, and the adaptive numerator has been successfully updated.

Set Condition:
The threshold to set the fault is application specific; there are two thresholds. They are the emissions threshold and the catalyst damage threshold for misfire to set fault code. The emissions threshold is tied to the level of misfire that will cause emissions to increase to 1.5 times the emissions standard and the catalyst damage threshold is tied to the level of misfire that will cause catalyst damage. For emissions related misfire fault, it is always a two trip fault. It takes 1 soft fail to set a malfunction and two trips to set the MIL. For catalyst damage related misfire fault, it is a one trip fault or two trip fault. It depends on the number of occurrences of misfire levels exceeding the catalyst damage threshold during the driving cycle. The MIL may be extinguished after three sequential driving cycles in which the misfire level does not exceed both the emissions threshold and catalyst damage threshold.


Possible Causes
ASD RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT
FUEL INJECTOR CONTROL CIRCUIT
COIL CONTROL CIRCUIT
SPARK PLUG
IGNITION COIL
FUEL PUMP INLET STRAINER PLUGGED
RESTRICTED FUEL SUPPLY LINE
FUEL PUMP MODULE
FUEL PRESSURE LEAK DOWN
FUEL INJECTOR
INTAKE SYSTEM LEAK OR RESTRICTION
ENGINE MECHANICAL
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before proceeding. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).




1.CYLINDER MISFIRE CONDITION ACTIVE


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NOTE: Check for any TSBs that apply to a Misfire condition. Review the vehicle repair history for any misfire condition repairs that have been performed.

NOTE: Diagnose and repair any other fuel system, ignition system, or air handling DTCs that are present before continuing with this test procedure.
1. Star the engine.
2. Observe the Misfire screen for at least one minute on the scan tool.

NOTE: If there are no misfires presently, test drive the vehicle under various load conditions while monitoring the misfire information.


Is there a misfire present?

Yes

Go To 2

No

Perform the INTERMITTENT CONDITION diagnostic procedure. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).



2.VISUAL INSPECTION


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NOTE: Anything that affects the speed of the crankshaft can cause a misfire DTC.

NOTE: When a Misfire is detected for a particular cylinder, the PCM will shut down that cylinder's Injector Control circuit.
1. Visually inspect the engine for any of the following conditions:

Worn serpentine belt
Binding Engine-Driven accessories: A/C Compressor, P/S Pump, Water pump.
Misalignment of the Water pump, P/S Pump and A/C Compressor pulleys
Corroded PCM power and ground circuits.
Improper CKP, CMP, and MAP mounting
Poor connector/terminal to component connection. i.e., CKP Sensor, Fuel Injector, Ignition Coil, etc.
Vacuum leaks
Restricted Air Induction system or Exhaust system.
Internal engine component failures.


Were any of the above conditions present?

Yes

Repair as necessary.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 3



3.ASD RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector of the misfiring cylinder.
3. Disconnect the Fuel Injector harness connector of the misfiring cylinder.
4. Ignition on, engine not running.
5. Using a 12-volt test light connected to ground, probe the ASD Relay Output circuit at the Ignition Coil harness connector and Fuel Injector harness connector while the ASD relay is actuating.


NOTE: Make sure the test light is probing the circuit before actuating the Relay or a DTC may set and not allow the actuation.
6. With the scan tool, actuate the ASD Relay.


Does the test light illuminate brightly?

Yes

Go To 4

No

Repair the excessive resistance or short to ground in the (F342, F343) ASD Relay Output circuit.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).



4.IGNITION SYSTEM OPERATION


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WARNING: When the engine is operating, do not stand in direct line with the fan. Do not put your hands near the pulleys, belts or fan. Do not wear loose clothing. Failure to follow these instructions may result in possible serious or fatal injury.



1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Reconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.
3. Remove the Ignition Coil.
4. Leave the Fuel Injector harness connector of the cylinder being tested disconnected.
5. Install a spark tester on the Ignition Coil.
6. While cranking the engine observe the spark coming from the spark tester.


NOTE: A crisp blue spark that is able to jump the gap of the spark tester should be generated.


Is good spark present?

Yes

Go To 5

No

Go To 11

NOTE: Reconnect the Fuel Injector harness connector before continuing.




5.SPARK PLUG


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Remove the Spark Plug.
3. Inspect the Spark Plug for the following conditions:

Cracks
Carbon Tracking
Foreign Material
Gap size out of specifications
Loose or broken electrode


NOTE: Lightly tap the bottom of the spark plug on a solid surface. The electrode in the spark plug should not move.


Does the Spark Plug have any problems?

Yes

Replace the Spark Plug.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 6



6.FUEL SYSTEM CHECK


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Perform the CHECKING THE FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM (HARD START) test procedure. (Refer to 29 - Non-DTC Diagnostics/Drivability - Gas/Diagnosis and Testing) .


NOTE: Leave the fuel decay tool connected for the next step if no problems are found during the procedure.


Were any fuel system issues found?

Yes

Perform the appropriate repairs.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 7



7.FUEL INJECTOR OPERATION


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAUTION: After each Fuel Injector actuation, start the engine to clean the cylinder of fuel. Failure to do so could cause engine damage.



1. Start the engine and allow the fuel pressure to reach maximum pressure.
2. Turn the ignition off.
3. Ignition on, engine not running.


NOTE: When a Misfire is detected for a particular cylinder, the PCM will shut down that cylinders Injector Control circuit. Clear the DTC and continue.
4. Using the scan tool, actuate the Fuel Injector for the cylinder that indicated the misfire.
5. Monitor the fuel pressure gauge.


Does the fuel pressure gauge indicate a drop in fuel pressure?

Yes

Go To 8

No

Go To 9

NOTE: Turn the ignition off, remove the Fuel Pressure gauge and connect the fuel lines before continuing.




8.ENGINE MECHANICAL PROBLEM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Check for any of the following conditions/mechanical problems:

ENGINE VACUUM - must be at least 13 inches in neutral
ENGINE VALVE TIMING - must be within specifications
ENGINE COMPRESSION - must be within specifications
ENGINE EXHAUST SYSTEM - must be free of any restrictions or leaks.
ENGINE PCV SYSTEM - must flow freely
TORQUE CONVERTER STALL SPEED - must be within specifications
POWER BRAKE BOOSTER - no internal vacuum leaks
FUEL - must be free of contamination
CAM LOBES - must not be worn excessively
CYLINDER LEAKAGE TEST - must be within specifications
VALVE SPRINGS - cannot be weak or broken


Are there any engine mechanical problems?

Yes

Repair as necessary.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 13



9.FUEL INJECTOR


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Disconnect the Fuel Injector harness connector of the misfiring cylinder.
3. Ignition on, engine not running.


NOTE: When a Misfire is detected for a particular cylinder, the PCM will shut down that cylinder's Injector Control circuit.
4. With the scan tool, erase DTCs.
5. Install an Injector Noid light.
6. With the scan tool, actuate the Fuel Injector.


Does the Noid light blink/flicker during the actuation?

Yes

Replace the Fuel Injector.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 13



10.INJECTOR CONTROL CIRCUIT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Disconnect the Fuel Injector harness connector.
3. Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
4. Check the Injector Control circuit for an open, short to ground and short to voltage.


Was a problem found with the Injector Control circuit?

Yes

Repair the excessive resistance or short in the Injector Control circuit.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 11



11.IGNITION COIL


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.
2. Remove the Fuel Pump Relay or ASD Relay.
3. Using a 12-volt test light connected to 12 volts, probe the Ignition Coil Control circuit.
4. Crank the engine for five seconds while observing the test light.


Does the test light brightly blink/flicker while the engine is cranking?

Yes

Replace the Ignition Coil.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 12



12.COIL CONTROL CIRCUIT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.
3. Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
4. Check the Coil Control circuit for an open, short to ground and short to voltage.


Was a problem found with the Coil Control circuit?

Yes

Repair the Coil Control circuit.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 13



13.POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Using the wiring diagram/schematic as a guide, inspect the wiring and connectors between the related Sensor, Coil, Injector and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).
2. Look for any chafed, pierced, pinched or partially broken wires.
3. Look for broken, bent, pushed out or corroded terminals. Verify that there is good pin to terminal contact in the related Sensors, Coils, Injectors and the Powertrain Control Module connectors.
4. Perform any Technical Service Bulletins that may apply.


Were there any problems found?

Yes

Repair as necessary.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module in accordance with the service information.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).


28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) / Diagnosis and Testing
P2610-PCM INTERNAL ENGINE OFF TIMER PERFORMANCE
For a complete wiring diagram, refer to the Wiring Information.



Theory of Operation
The purpose of the shut down timer diagnostic is to determine if the PCM internal clock is running as expected. This engine off timer is used as an enable condition for various OBD monitors. The rationality test consists of two tests used to evaluate shut down time.

During an initial engine start, if it is determined that the engine start is a cold start (determined by comparing the engine coolant temperature versus ambient temperature), the Slow Test will be run and a long shut down time would be expected. If it is determined that the engine start is not a cold start, the Fast Test will be run and a short shut down time is expected because the engine has not been cooled down to cold start conditions.

The P1607 DTC will set if the Slow Test diagnostic runs and fails.
The P2610 DTC will set if the Fast Test diagnostic runs and fails.



When Monitored and Set Conditions
When Monitored: This diagnostic runs continuously when the following conditions are met:

With the engine running after a cycle when a complete engine warm up was achieved.
The difference between engine coolant temperature and ambient air temperature greater than 10°C (50°F).
After a minimum temperature drop of 10°C (50°F) during ignition off.
Battery voltage greater than 10.0 volts.

Set Conditions:

The PCM detects that the engine coolant temperature drops a specified amount during the measured engine off time.

Default Actions:

MIL is illuminated


Possible Causes
AMBIENT AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR
COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENSOR
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) SOFTWARE UPDATE
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


Always perform the PRE-DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURE before proceeding. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).




1.CHECK FOR AN ACTIVE DTC


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NOTE: An incorrect temperature reading from the Coolant Temperature Sensor or Ambient Temperature Sensor could cause this DTC to set. Verify that both temperature sensors are reading correctly before proceeding with this test.

NOTE: Diagnose and repair any other DTCs set in the PCM before proceeding with this test.
1. Turn the ignition on.
2. With the scan tool, erase DTCs in the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).
3. Start the engine and allow it to reach operating temperature.

WARNING: When the engine is operating, do not stand in direct line with the fan. Do not put your hands near the pulleys, belts or fan. Do not wear loose clothing. Failure to follow these instructions may result in possible serious or fatal injury.



4. With the scan tool, read DTCs and record on the repair order.


Is the DTC active or pending?

Yes

Go To 2

No

Perform the INTERMITTENT CONDITION diagnostic procedure. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).



2.POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) SOFTWARE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Turn the ignition on.
3. With the scan tool, Verify that the PCM is operating at the latest software version available.
4. Perform any Service Bulletins that may apply.


Were any problems found?

Yes

Repair as necessary.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Go To 3



3.POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Using the wiring diagram/schematic as a guide, inspect Powertrain Control Module power and ground circuits.
2. Look for any chafed, pierced, pinched, or partially broken wires.
3. Look for broken, bent, pushed out or corroded terminals.
4. Monitor the scan tool data and wiggle the wiring and connectors.
5. Look for the any data to change or for the DTC to reset during the wiggle test.


Were any problems found?

Yes

Repair as necessary.
Perform the PCM VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) in accordance with the Service Information.
Perform the PCM VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

[sadil]

Could be a bunch of things causing a misfire. Gas certainly could have something to do with it. What gas are you using?

[Steve-Indy]

aside from what I posted above...did you have the battery disconnected? Along same line, I have seen code P2610 thrown due to loose connection at battery...so, it might be worth checking as this Gen is quite EASY to get to the battery.

[stevezel]

Using Chevron or Shell 91.
Code 0303 is one cy only, so bad gas would cause more than one.
Will check battery.
But back to the dealer tomorrow. Not going to wrench on this yet.
My 1st Viper was an early 93, founding member of the original club.
3 gen 2's, 1 gen 3, 2 gen 4, lots of mods on the gen 2's. Life was simpler then.
Thanks to all!
Steve Z

[Steve-Indy]

Good luck...and, please post findings.

[Martin]

May as well take advantage of the warranty (or worranty...). I'll bet you have a sticky injector or a bad coil pack - or a loose connection to one of them. Anyhow, the more knowledge we get of glitches in these more-complex systems the better. Pain to bring it to the dealer, but maybe they'll give you a Hellcat to play with while they're diagnosing.

[stevezel]

Will provide feedback after dealer works on it!

[AngelSpeedFreak]

Hahaha... I've had a Hellcat Charger loaner for the past 3 weeks waiting on the dealer to fix my check engine light. It's going back with bald tires that is for sure.

[Jack B]

The problem with a misfire code is, that code can be caused by virtually dozens of engine components or sub systems. You will probably find a more definitive code with a scan tool. Just an opinion, do not only use the gauge cluster to read codes, it only shows those codes that are related to emissions, in your case you may have have multiple readable codes that could define your base issue if you were using a scan tool.

The OBD plug for a scan tool is located by the left knee, immediately under the dash.. There are some very nice inexpensive wireless hardware OBD plugs that display on your cell phone. There is a possibility this is a one time occurrence that may not come back. If that is the case, you can reset the code, therefore, no dealer trip would be required.

Will provide feedback after dealer works on it!

[dethred]

I hope it's something small. I just spent 143k on mine and don't want to see this on these. Please keep us updated.

I agree, but imagine, as I did, seeing a check engine light come on at 25 miles. Thankfully it went away and never returned. (Cam position sensor)

[Lawrenzo]

After 400 mi, light came on.
Tried gas cap, light off.
Light back on, fresh gas, light off.
420 mi, light on, flashing engine cuts back.
Cannot drive will get towed in.
What is the story?
2017 GT.

Is this the red GT from Gerry Wood?

[stevezel]

Thanks for all the inputs.
Car is now at the dealer.
Ordered car one to one program for 2017.
Just for an old guy to drive, no wings.
Gunmetal with silver stripes. GT.
Will keep you informed.
Bought a scan tool for the next time!!

[BlueAdder]

but maybe they'll give you a Hellcat to play with while they're diagnosing.

Dream on buddy
Dodge will give you a $35 voucher for a crappy rental, ask me how I know...

I was hoping for at least a Challenger 392 or whatever and I ended up with a Nissan Maxima

[Policy Limits]

Haha on my GTS recalls I left in a Jeep rent a bomb so I could drive 100 miles each way right past a dozen other SRT authorized dealers too afraid to breathe on it...

[dmann]

Definitely interested in the outcome. Mine got the same code the day after i received it, with 60 miles.

[texasram]

Hahaha... I've had a Hellcat Charger loaner for the past 3 weeks waiting on the dealer to fix my check engine light. It's going back with bald tires that is for sure.

annnnnnd this is why you dont buy a used hellcat, not even with 2000 miles on it