2017 Gen V s Silence is golden

[darbgnik]

This problem is the number one reason I haven't bought a gen 5. Its not about the money for me its 100% about the principal. The reason I have owned so many vipers is the drop dead reliability. Take that away and Im now shopping for a G.

If you're looking for a lot of performance from your performance car, I wouldn't bother shopping for the G, or even an LP-G. I owned one for 4 years, and while it really is a nice car, it is not that fast, nor is it dynamically exciting....... I owned it and my Viper for a year, and sold the G, after realizing I drove it maybe a half dozen times in the time I had it and the Viper.

It does excel in its natural habitat however, you'll be the star in your local Starbucks parking lot. If that's your thing.

[dethred]

So in order for us to believe that 97 out of 100 cars are seeing excessive rod bearing wear after as low as a couple hundred miles, we have to assume one or all of the following few things:

1.) There is virtually no Quality control process for the motors. (Plausible considering the fact it took them 3 years to figure out the casting debris issue)

2.) There were no tear downs of test motors to check for these things. It would have been a statistical probability that it would have been caught had they run even 3 motors and then tore them down. It's inconceivable that they wouldn't have done this prior to beginning production.

2b) If #2 was done properly, there may have been some change or failure in the machining of the rotating assembly... but we've seen failures/damage ranging from early 2013 through 2017 according to Calvo.

3.) They saw the wear, shrugged, and gave them a pass anyways. This is just as inconceivable considering the headache they'd be leaving themselves to clean up.

[Policy Limits]

Only put 64 miles on my 2017 so it's still early but no issues. Many of us just accepted delivery two months ago or later and it was winter for most of the country. So stay tuned. In 3.5 years i put 8310 miles on my 2013 and it never burned one drop of oil. It was a very early build too. I broke it in per the manual and changed oil every 6 months though. The 5 recalls/ campaigns were frustrating but no engine or oil issues. Luck of the draw car it seemed. I even tracked it a couple of times. Having lucked out I was hesitant to roll the dice on another. But 5 model years newer, a loyalty voucher burning a hole in my pocket, a cleaning station for the block at the plant later, a fresh warranty all led to a 2017 model purchase.

I owned my Gallardo spyder for 4 years. Loved the car, no issues. Currently in the market for another. Trying to have twin V10 status like viper jon. Ha.

[BJG32]

If you're looking for a lot of performance from your performance car, I wouldn't bother shopping for the G, or even an LP-G. I owned one for 4 years, and while it really is a nice car, it is not that fast, nor is it dynamically exciting....... I owned it and my Viper for a year, and sold the G, after realizing I drove it maybe a half dozen times in the time I had it and the Viper.

It does excel in its natural habitat however, you'll be the star in your local Starbucks parking lot. If that's your thing.

So in order for us to believe that 97 out of 100 cars are seeing excessive rod bearing wear after as low as a couple hundred miles, we have to assume one or all of the following few things:

1.) There is virtually no Quality control process for the motors. (Plausible considering the fact it took them 3 years to figure out the casting debris issue)

2.) There were no tear downs of test motors to check for these things. It would have been a statistical probability that it would have been caught had they run even 3 motors and then tore them down. It's inconceivable that they wouldn't have done this prior to beginning production.

2b) If #2 was done properly, there may have been some change or failure in the machining of the rotating assembly... but we've seen failures/damage ranging from early 2013 through 2017 according to Calvo.

3.) They saw the wear, shrugged, and gave them a pass anyways. This is just as inconceivable considering the headache they'd be leaving themselves to clean up.

Good points, but even if its 10%, its still unacceptable in the 5th model year.

[OneofOneViper]

I'm certainly no expert in this field but from what I've read over the last couple years, most of the reputable shops claim oil issues cause most of the Gen V problems ever since the block cleaning station was installed. They eat oil before they have fully heat expanded due to their block being cast and pistons being forged. Even if you're not at a track, if you start your viper up from a cold start often it will eat through oil and there isn't a lot of tolerance on these motors whatsoever so if it gets low it's a big problem. Some say to just add an extra quart of oil and check it every 500 miles or so after the motor has heated up to ensure it's not getting too low. Second, these models don't have a dry sump which is actually needed when performance driving because the amount of g-force experienced when braking, turning, or accelerating is extreme and it can pull the oil away from one portion of the engine which of course would cause problems.

[dhx]

Yes sir. you can extend your warranty up to one year past your purchase date. Contact member ClayR for the best deal. Zellner motors is a sponsor. Link on the sponsors page.

There is no one year rule. You can extend it multiple years later.

[BJG32]

There is no one year rule. You can extend it multiple years later.

Yes, but i believe the price goes up.

[Dman]

If you want expert info, and really interested, forget posting. Just give Antonio and Andy a call, I have. You'll get excellent info on the topic from their mutual direct experience opening these engin s up, from 13s to 17s. Bottom line, recall/campaign doesn't matter, builds after the washing station don't matter, and Year doesn't matter. Antonio recommends a crank treatment that cleans up everything there, getting rid of the crossed drill oiling, which Greg Good has tweeted is an issue with these, and it's very cost controlled, I won't quote it in case, but for a H/C pkg it's a no brained while you're doing that for him to just do it all. But you need to chat with them to get solid info, they're amazing resources.

[sadil]

I'd like to see some of these bearings. Countless times we have tried to get someone to give a little more information about their failure. The result is the same. Everyone running around throwing theories with no facts. I have no double Calvo has the best intentions but seriously we haven't been able to determine how low the oil was in why of the cars. A little bit of wear is fine, fine lines on bearing is not going to kill anything. If you cant even get a finger nail on it, your not going to fail. Should it happen? Ofcourse not. Why is it happening? I don't know. But not every car Calvo finds with bearing wear are going to blow. Bearing wear is its own science and unless someone on here can determine the extent of the wear with a few cell phone piks, we are all wasting our time discussing something that we have no knowledge about. Thats what you get on this forum. An issue pops up, people pick sides and then just argue each other for weeks. Whether its engine failures or Woodhouse's TA/ACR. Facts people. Lets get the damn facts. We know Chrysler had a problem with q/c, we know low oil is an issue as some cars eat more than others. We know we have seen lots blow up. That's it. Going backwards and determining root cause about a vehicle engine you haven't even seen is ridiculous.

[BJG32]

If you want expert info, and really interested, forget posting. Just give Antonio and Andy a call, I have. You'll get excellent info on the topic from their mutual direct experience opening these engin s up, from 13s to 17s. Bottom line, recall/campaign doesn't matter, builds after the washing station don't matter, and Year doesn't matter. Antonio recommends a crank treatment that cleans up everything there, getting rid of the crossed drill oiling, which Greg Good has tweeted is an issue with these, and it's very cost controlled, I won't quote it in case, but for a H/C pkg it's a no brained while you're doing that for him to just do it all. But you need to chat with them to get solid info, they're amazing resources.

Well, ACR Extreme is working closely with VE on his build. Based on ACR Extreme's post about Calvo it sounds like the expert opinions on this same engine differ greatly. Would love to see a forum thread where Woodhouse, VE, Calvo, Nth, (and Arrow? are they on here?) all discuss this engine and ALL other noise is left out (ie ALL of us). Just experts discussing what they are seeing for us to read.... and what a great way for each one to drum up more business.

[Stealth78]

I'd like to see some of these bearings. Countless times we have tried to get someone to give a little more information about their failure. The result is the same. Everyone running around throwing theories with no facts. I have no double Calvo has the best intentions but seriously we haven't been able to determine how low the oil was in why of the cars. A little bit of wear is fine, fine lines on bearing is not going to kill anything. If you cant even get a finger nail on it, your not going to fail. Should it happen? Ofcourse not. Why is it happening? I don't know. But not every car Calvo finds with bearing wear are going to blow. Bearing wear is its own science and unless someone on here can determine the extent of the wear with a few cell phone piks, we are all wasting our time discussing something that we have no knowledge about. Thats what you get on this forum. An issue pops up, people pick sides and then just argue each other for weeks. Whether its engine failures or Woodhouse's TA/ACR. Facts people. Lets get the damn facts. We know Chrysler had a problem with q/c, we know low oil is an issue as some cars eat more than others. We know we have seen lots blow up. That's it. Going backwards and determining root cause about a vehicle engine you haven't even seen is ridiculous.

If the pictures that Antonio has posted are accurate and legit, which I for one am not doubting, then there is a problem. I'm not sure why you feel that the wear is normal. Some of these pictures (once again if factual) are true and this amount of wear/scoring is happening with only a few thousand miles than I would be worried. I have literally seen GenIII engines run up to 150K-200K miles without a rebuild. If you think that this amount of wear is okay in an engine with as little as a few thousand miles you are kidding yourself, these engines probably will never make it a 1/4 of the duration as the GenIII and GenIV engines have.

[ViperSRT]

Lots of experts but how many of these experts have really connected the conditions shown in the photographs to actual failures later in life? I would guess the answer is zero. I have seen bearings with significant material wear and/or fatigue that survived Dyno testing under extreme conditions. Evidence of debris scratches or slight wear is not evidence of impending failure. It is not good, that is clear. But all this crying wolf is just that from my perspective.

I am still chuckling about the stated 97% failure rate. With a failure rate like that I would expect no engine would have ever passed a durability test. How did that pass the laugh test?

[Rizzo]

If you're looking for a lot of performance from your performance car, I wouldn't bother shopping for the G, or even an LP-G. I owned one for 4 years, and while it really is a nice car, it is not that fast, nor is it dynamically exciting....... I owned it and my Viper for a year, and sold the G, after realizing I drove it maybe a half dozen times in the time I had it and the Viper.

It does excel in its natural habitat however, you'll be the star in your local Starbucks parking lot. If that's your thing.

Brad... OUCH... LOL.. Now you are making me want to sell the G and get another Viper..haha. But you are right. The G is SLOW compared to the Viper. I would say my 06 G is comparable to a Gen 2 Viper. A LP 560 would be comparable to a Gen 3. The new Huracan is quick. It is an amazing car. And as far as only using the G to Starbucks? Well that's just crazy. Who the hell can afford Starbucks coffee? Im lucky if I get to hang out in the Tim Hortons parking lot...hahahaha

[donk_316]

All the cool kids hang at out Tims...

Anyways I really believe this comes down to checking oil levels at every fuel up. All these damaged bearings scream low oil levels to me.

Here is my car oil record.

Oil history
281mi / 450kms 1.25 liters oil added
437mi / 700kms 0.75 liters oil added
560mi / 900 kms Oil change
730mi / 1175kms 0.40 liters oil added
975mi / 1565kms 0 oil added
First 1000 miles = 2.4 liters oil added

1560mi / 2500kms 0 oil added
1740mi / 2780kms 0.5 liters oil added
Second 2000mi / 3200kms XXX?
***

The issue is too many people (as literally mentioned in another thread) "I have no idea so I googled and formed an opinion"

If you changing your oil every 6 months and only driving the car 3500 miles in 3 years... well yeah, no doubt you would think it doesn't burn a drop!

[dhx]

If you changing your oil every 6 months and only driving the car 3500 miles in 3 years... well yeah, no doubt you would think it doesn't burn a drop!

Exactly!

[Policy Limits]

All the cool kids hang at out Tims...

Anyways I really believe this comes down to checking oil levels at every fuel up. All these damaged bearings scream low oil levels to me.

Here is my car oil record.

Oil history
281mi / 450kms 1.25 liters oil added
437mi / 700kms 0.75 liters oil added
560mi / 900 kms Oil change
730mi / 1175kms 0.40 liters oil added
975mi / 1565kms 0 oil added
First 1000 miles = 2.4 liters oil added

1560mi / 2500kms 0 oil added
1740mi / 2780kms 0.5 liters oil added
Second 2000mi / 3200kms XXX?
***

The issue is too many people (as literally mentioned in another thread) "I have no idea so I googled and formed an opinion"

If you changing your oil every 6 months and only driving the car 3500 miles in 3 years... well yeah, no doubt you would think it doesn't burn a drop!

True but throwing race track events into the equation adds another variable. So if you're still not burning oil with that consideration compounded it's a decent sign. My 2013 passed all of the recalls and campaigns with flying colors but I'm still glad I moved on. It's tough buying the first model production year of a new generation. ..much better to get the final model year of production

[bluesrt]

my car , 2014 ta burned oil for about 600 miles and then quit, ring break in, but I checked it every time I put gas in it,new engine use oil for the most part(ring break in)

[Chorps]

If everyone is so concerned about this they should be sending off their oil to get analyzed instead of posting without evidence?

[swexlin]

If everyone is so concerned about this they should be sending off their oil to get analyzed instead of posting without evidence?

People are, actually. There is an ongoing thread in this forum.

[Purple Haze]

Beautiful color choice...

I asked because it is not too far away that the below will be showing up. My previous Gen II's and my current Gen IV have been trouble free, and it would suck ass to have to deal with what has been going on with the new one.

[dethred]

Well, ACR Extreme is working closely with VE on his build. Based on ACR Extreme's post about Calvo it sounds like the expert opinions on this same engine differ greatly. Would love to see a forum thread where Woodhouse, VE, Calvo, Nth, (and Arrow? are they on here?) all discuss this engine and ALL other noise is left out (ie ALL of us). Just experts discussing what they are seeing for us to read.... and what a great way for each one to drum up more business.

This is by far the best thing said in this entire thread. Not sure of the odds of this happening, but worth pursuing I'd say. Great idea.

People are, actually. There is an ongoing thread in this forum.

And reading through that thread, it looks like the numbers are inverse to the bearing issues reported by Calvo. How many people have actually gotten a "oh damn, she's gonna blow" report back from Blackstone? Not one I've seen in that thread... but effectively all of our motors are chewing up rod bearings, right?

What a lovely fuster-cluck.

[BJG32]

This is by far the best thing said in this entire thread. Not sure of the odds of this happening, but worth pursuing I'd say. Great idea.

I don't know any of these guys well. If any of them want to scare us into getting our engines checked out/cleaned up, then I would assume they wouldn't want to be debunked on public forum in front of potential customers.

Based on what I am hearing from ACR Extreme VE seems to think this issue is way overblown. Meanwhile Calvo posts pics on Facebook's VOA every few weeks of scary looking bearings stating 100% chance of failure for 97% of cars.

Would be an interesting and valuable discussion. Great minds coming together to get us on the right path to correcting (or dropping worry) about this damn issue....

[donk_316]

They are in the business of building engines... it would be in their best interest if people thought their engines should be rebuilt. No one in the lucrative performance build market is going to say "hey we have opened a few engines and they needed work but I'm sure it's a rare occurrence"

When In doubt, follow the money. This applies to everything in life.

[ACRucrazy]

I don't know any of these guys well. If any of them want to scare us into getting our engines checked out/cleaned up, then I would assume they wouldn't want to be debunked on public forum in front of potential customers.

Based on what I am hearing from ACR Extreme VE seems to think this issue is way overblown. Meanwhile Calvo posts pics on Facebook's VOA every few weeks of scary looking bearings stating 100% chance of failure for 97% of cars.

Would be an interesting and valuable discussion. Great minds coming together to get us on the right path to correcting (or dropping worry) about this damn issue....

Why did VE buy every Gen IV block that was available from the warehouse?

[BJG32]

Why did VE buy every Gen IV block that was available from the warehouse?

LOL.... That is an EXCELLENT question, but I don't know shit.

Maybe I just need to punt this thing and get Honda. ...and I type this as I have a $4000 carbon fiber order sitting in my email draft ready to send to xtreme. G Damn it.