2017 Gen V s Silence is golden

[ACR Extreme]

Wait until u see the attention the ACR gets. The only car I've ever owned that gets the same amount of attention is the Lamborghini. Pictured and filmed everywhere. And stop for fuel at a gas station? You'll be chatting forever. It gets a lot of attention but that's OK.

Assuming it will be like my 69z28 lots of thumbs up smiles never once heard something negative - everyone loves American muscle foreign muscle not so much.

[Policy Limits]

Even had a girl approach and say she knew absolutely nothing about cars but knew this one is special. Seemed authentic. Hire a body guard! Lol

[jaxtk]

How many 2016 cars have failed? I think it's too soon on the 17's. I recall not seeing many 15's with issues. However there were lots of 13's & 14's. Do you think that mitigating mechanisms were put into place (cleaning station at plant, lessons learned from engine contamination & oil consumption recalls) or do you think same supplier of the same part so it's still a crap shoot?

So far 7 2016 Engines were replaced under warranty.

[Policy Limits]

That's rough. Arrow rebuild is chump change but what an inconvenience and very disappointing on a six figure toy. Fresh 5 year power train warranty: check.

[Stealth78]

So far 7 2016 Engines were replaced under warranty.

Any idea what the mileage was on these?

[dethred]

There was a guy on Facebook VOA I believe, Reported low oil pressure and misfire codes, and said he had run the car up past 120mph the day before. When someone asked how often he was checking the oil level, he seemed confused as to the concept of frequently checking. I'm still convinced that a significant number of failures have been caused by low oil levels and apathetic owners.

[ACRucrazy]

There was a guy on Facebook VOA I believe, Reported low oil pressure and misfire codes, and said he had run the car up past 120mph the day before. When someone asked how often he was checking the oil level, he seemed confused as to the concept of frequently checking. I'm still convinced that a significant number of failures have been caused by low oil levels and apathetic owners.

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

[dethred]

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

The motors are known to consume oil, especially in the first 1 or 2 oil change intervals. Add to that the difficulty and confusion of reading proper fill levels, and yeah, it's beyond believable. Considering many people check their oil once per change interval, and probably aren't even reading the levels correctly, it's a recipe for a big bang.

[Martin]

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

I think that all new owners should be educated right from the start that they need to check the oil very frequently during break-in. There are a LOT of people out there (me included) that have had dozens of cars that never went low on oil between changes. My Gen II and Gen IV never burned a drop. Same goes for everything else I own. I do believe that many of the problems are due to oil burning during the break-in period, and owners not knowing how important it is to check the level. Some cars get away with low oil levels - not these. Run them a couple of quarts low, and it won't take much to get air entrained in the oil and it's all downhill from there.

My prediction is that the next thing we see is a wave of clogged cats. If that much oil is getting past the rings, it's gotta be causing problems with the cats - and that will eventually show up in these discussions.

I guess the short of it is that we've gotta check oil very often, and get the oil tested. If the engine goes, and the owner has been super anal about managing the oil level and keeping records of oil analyses, then we have a data point that would certainly get me more convinced of a manufacturing defect. As it stands now, for the '16 and '17 cars, I'm leaning toward low oil level as the cause of the vast majority of problems.

Of course, if my '17 ACR blows, I'm going to be pissed as hell because I'm definitely going to fall into the super anal category when it comes to watching the oil situation like a hawk.

[Pappy]

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

Yes, stronger forged pistons with the required looser clearances. My 2016, like a lot of others, used lots of oil for the first 1300 miles (during a by-the-book break-in), and only trace amounts since - usually 1-2 ounces on a track day. Both the break-in usage and some usage during track events are adequately spelled out in the owners' manual with appropriate warnings to monitor oil levels - warnings that some appear to ignore. I have never let mine get more than 1/4 quart low without topping it off - a small price to pay for the performance we get for the buck.

Pappy

[zee]

There was a guy on Facebook VOA I believe, Reported low oil pressure and misfire codes, and said he had run the car up past 120mph the day before. When someone asked how often he was checking the oil level, he seemed confused as to the concept of frequently checking. I'm still convinced that a significant number of failures have been caused by low oil levels and apathetic owners.

100% agree. The fact that FCA extended warranty on r28 cars and not cars with just r29 issued also is a flag for me. I specifically wanting to find a TA with only r29 issued and didn't burn any oil. It was tough to do but I found one and trusted the previous owner about any consumption issues. I'm at 10k and running strong, no issues with consumption and I check at every fuel stop.

[jaxtk]

Any idea what the mileage was on these?

Yes, 3,000 3000 5,800 1,400 1,500 1,200 3,100

[ACRucrazy]

Yes, 3,000 3000 5,800 1,400 1,500 1,200 3,100

Well then

[ACR PWR]

I think that all new owners should be educated right from the start that they need to check the oil very frequently during break-in. There are a LOT of people out there (me included) that have had dozens of cars that never went low on oil between changes. My Gen II and Gen IV never burned a drop. Same goes for everything else I own. I do believe that many of the problems are due to oil burning during the break-in period, and owners not knowing how important it is to check the level. Some cars get away with low oil levels - not these. Run them a couple of quarts low, and it won't take much to get air entrained in the oil and it's all downhill from there.

My prediction is that the next thing we see is a wave of clogged cats. If that much oil is getting past the rings, it's gotta be causing problems with the cats - and that will eventually show up in these discussions.

I guess the short of it is that we've gotta check oil very often, and get the oil tested. If the engine goes, and the owner has been super anal about managing the oil level and keeping records of oil analyses, then we have a data point that would certainly get me more convinced of a manufacturing defect. As it stands now, for the '16 and '17 cars, I'm leaning toward low oil level as the cause of the vast majority of problems.

Of course, if my '17 ACR blows, I'm going to be pissed as hell because I'm definitely going to fall into the super anal category when it comes to watching the oil situation like a hawk.

I agree with this.
I am also very detailed with checking oil and I do all my own service.
My ACR E did burn oil during break in. I checked it every time I drove it. If your not the kind to check your oil a lot with your cars and just take them to the dealer every once in a while a can see a owner getting into a problem with this car.

My ACR has 2700 miles on it right now and I received the car last October.
I track my 2010 GTR that is modified to 800hp. There are at least three possibilities I could of blown my engine if I wasn't checking oil after sessions and the end of the day. The car is running rich but when I'm running full boost it loves to consume oil. Getting in the habit of being in tune with your car can save you a lot of hardship.

[ACR Extreme]

Well then

I'm curious what your point is - it's like you want there to be an issue and if there is an opening you attempt to widen it.

Viper drinks oil early on - it's due to how the engine acts under break in.

Anything besides that is rare extremely rare and simple fact is it's under warranty so who cares.

[ACRucrazy]

I'm curious what your point is - it's like you want there to be an issue and if there is an opening you attempt widen it.

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

[Policy Limits]

I ordered my first gen V back in 2012. I remember reading the owners manual front to back and recall the manufacturer expressing concern over forged pistons in the engine and how oil consumption was a concern. I further recall the manual insisting on not letting more than 6 months elapse without changing the oil. Not saying there aren't lemons out there because there's plenty, but I'll take the 90% chance the motor won't fail as good odds. First year bugs also seem to transcend brands. I recall the ceo of McLaren actually apologizing (pre epic depreciation) to owners of first year MP4 12C cars in regards to electrical and code issues. First year 458 engines caught fire. Porsche recalled the early GT3, first year Aventador was unpleasant for Lambo, etc. I've deduced in general it's best not to purchase the first model year of a brand's new generation and most likely won't again.

[Angleiron]

So it seems that the wind is blowing towards the forged pistons as being responsible for the oil consumption, and then due to the low oil that leads to the engine failures. The early Gen II's had forged pistons...so what kind of oil consumption was there with that engine? I don't ever remember hearing about engine failures for these Gen II's?

[BJG32]

So it seems that the wind is blowing towards the forged pistons as being responsible for the oil consumption, and then due to the low oil that leads to the engine failures. The early Gen II's had forged pistons...so what kind of oil consumption was there with that engine? I don't ever remember hearing about engine failures for these Gen II's?

Look what started... lol

[OneofOneViper]

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

so less than 1% of cars delivered had an engine failure (not bad by any standards for such a cutting edge high performance engine) and you don't think some of those tracked the car or pushed the rev limit before a proper engine break in? Whether or not oil consumption was the cause of the issue or not, you're trying to make a mounting out of a mole hill and the reality is that the failures for 16 and 17 are significantly lower than the first couple years of generation 5. No doubt they had problem, just like there is no doubt vipers weren't selling well. Get with the times. Things have improved dramatically. Whether that is related or not to the earlier engine issues---who knows.

[Camfab]

I don't even own a Gen V, but I've been watching this drama unfold from the get go. My perspective is, why is everything a secret. Clearly there is a problem and it's not the pistons. Bearings and pistons are unrelated. Yes forged pistons due to larger clearances will burn some extra oil, but torn up crankshafts don't get that way because of pistons. What I thought was interesting about those Facebook photos shown here, is that the bearing wear is not representative of the damaged crank shown. The bearing wear doesn't look bad, while the crank is completely damaged. I feel like those pics are not from the same engine. Clearly there is an issue, and it's likely a combination of faulty casting and machining. Its completely ridiculous that anyone has to deal with this uncertainty for any car. Having said that, if I had the additional funds, I'd buy an ACR-E tomorrow and yank the motor apart the first night. That's just not right.......... I feel for all of you equally mesmerized viper nuts.

[swexlin]

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

I agree.

[Policy Limits]

Will all be moot in 180 days when the production plug is pulled. Can't wait for that to occur.

[Bruce H.]

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

That's because you've never pulled a 3000 mile Gen V dipstick and found it dry. It happens...fact. And it happens because many owners don't read their manual when they first get the car, or until they need to reference something specific, and they have zero idea that this engine can run low on oil before the first scheduled oil change. Owners bringing Vipers in for service with low oil levels are the norm according to a Viper Tech I spoke with, not the exception. Many owners just don't check...but probably start after blowing an engine!

If you're waiting for owners to post here about how they blew their engine through negligence I think you'll remain in denial for a very, very long time.

[Stealth78]

That's because you've never pulled a 3000 mile Gen V dipstick and found it dry. It happens...fact. And it happens because many owners don't read their manual when they first get the car, or until they need to reference something specific, and they have zero idea that this engine can run low on oil before the first scheduled oil change. Owners bringing Vipers in for service with low oil levels are the norm according to a Viper Tech I spoke with, not the exception. Many owners just don't check...but probably start after blowing an engine!

If you're waiting for owners to post here about how they blew their engine through negligence I think you'll remain in denial for a very, very long time.

Not making excuses for anyone but at the 5th production year mark (should have been the 3rd when this seems to have become a known epidemic) Dodge dealerships should be putting a HUGE amount of emphasis to the buyer of how important this is. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as most of us on this forum about this. It's almost comical between my fiance and I, she has always busted my balls for how compulsive I am about checking my fluids constantly, now I use this as my prime example to show and prove to her that I am right about at least one thing in life! Lol!