The Future Value Analysis for Viper

[Angleiron]

As soon as they test drive a C7 Z06, just as an example, and realize they could be driving that instead of a 4th Gen they paid about the same price for, they will not be able to get rid of that Viper fast enough whatever hit they take monetarily.

I would think that they have already looked at the Vette and that is why they bought the Viper. Why have a car (vette) that has 4 different models that all look the same? The one thing the Viper has always had is that there was never any confusion as to which model it was/is.

[Policy Limits]

And Viper guys mostly see the Z06 in one place in particular: the rear view mirror. Haha. Here's one in dark red that kept good pace with me in my old GTS last track season. Great day.

[Scott_in_fl]

You can get a well equipped used C7 Z06 for $70K and there's a lot of value there, but just not a car that excites me. Way too many out there. See them everywhere. I still have yet to see a G5 Viper out in the wild since introduced in 2013 except at Viper gatherings. The G5 Viper is rare. ACR even more so.

This ^^^^.

I daily drive a C7Z06 and love the car for that purpose. But, in the end, I still lust for that raw Viper driving experience. You really don't get that anywhere else in a current car. You need to step back in time and find some prior gen P-cars and F-car stradales to have that same feeling. When you strap into a Viper and press start, you feel like you're in a race car. With the ACR, it must be that x 10 (mine on order).

With the Vette, you feel like you are in a fast car, but it feels like a street car. Maybe it's because they've made it too good, too appealing to the masses (which they need to in order to sell 30k units per year). It is comfortable, the suspension is compliant, the a/c blows cold, it is well mannered, etc.

I also agree that GM ruins it for the enthusiast that wants an American F-car competitor by having a base model that everyone can drive. It takes real commitment to own and drive a Viper because it is built for the purist just like the original P-cars and F-cars used to be (now, they also need to appeal to the masses and their cars, while good, are primarily built for well-heeled posers and need to be easy to drive -- think automatic transmissions). GM could hit a home run if they would very significantly differentiate their top model Vette to go after the P-car and F-car buyer with limited volume and hand-built quality. They basically need to build a genuine race car, that looks like a race car. They know how to do it and could, but that is unlikely to happen (although Ford did it -- and so did Dodge).

[Donato]

Viper exclusively really only applies to collectors and true Viper enthusiasts, I don't think anyone else knows or cares. My comment was primarily for new first-time Viper buyers that are caught up in the current hype.

Since this is a future Viper value thread, my point was that Vipers I've seen for sale for months and months and months are now recently sold. My thought is this could drive up the value of the Viper in general as the buyers scurry to get a Viper at their desired price point. The least expensive examples for all Gens will be sold first, and on up the chain until only the most expensive Vipers are left for sale.

Now fast forward a few more years after the honeymoon period has worn off and these new first-time Viper buyers drive a; Hellcat, C7Z, Shelby GT350, etc., they will not be able to sell that Viper fast enough and the inflated values will eventually drop back to normal.

Now theoretically speaking, if a SRT base model Gen 5 inflated to say $200k, I know all you current Viper owners would just love that. However for the non collector/enthusiast I would think they'd rather have a; Hellcat, C7Z, and a Shelby (or a GTR, or maybe even a nice Lexus SUV for the wife) in their stable instead of the lone Viper. I for one would, and that would leave the Viper-flippers thinking they are going to make bank, and others thinking they will retire when they sell, with just a depreciating asset rotting in their garage for years to come.

[CNU_Physics]

What does a C7 Z06 drive like? I've been in C5 and C6's and they were very fast cars, but so smooth that they kind of felt tame. It gives me the impression the C7 would follow suit. I have yet to experience a newer car that was easy to drive, but at the same time felt very raw like the Viper does. Driving a Viper gives that realization that "oh shit...this really is a race car built for the street", and it's so addicting.

You need to step back in time and find some prior gen P-cars and F-car stradales to have that same feeling. When you strap into a Viper and press start, you feel like you're in a race car.

I think that mirrors a lot of what I think about this car. People reminisce about the experience a classic sports car felt like and how raw it was. The way the cars put you on edge driving them and how loud they were. I feel like the Viper still gives that experience.

[Scott_in_fl]

Viper exclusively really only applies to collectors and true Viper enthusiasts, I don't think anyone else knows or cares. My comment was primarily for new first-time Viper buyers that are caught up in the current hype.

Since this is a future Viper value thread, my point was that Vipers I've seen for sale for months and months and months are now recently sold. My thought is this could drive up the value of the Viper in general as the buyers scurry to get a Viper at their desired price point. The least expensive examples for all Gens will be sold first, and on up the chain until only the most expensive Vipers are left for sale.

Now fast forward a few more years after the honeymoon period has worn off and these new first-time Viper buyers drive a; Hellcat, C7Z, Shelby GT350, etc., they will not be able to sell that Viper fast enough and the inflated values will eventually drop back to normal.

Now theoretically speaking, if a SRT base model Gen 5 inflated to say $200k, I know all you current Viper owners would just love that. However for the non collector/enthusiast I would think they'd rather have a; Hellcat, C7Z, and a Shelby (or a GTR, or maybe even a nice Lexus SUV for the wife) in their stable instead of the lone Viper. I for one would, and that would leave the Viper-flippers thinking they are going to make bank, and others thinking they will retire when they sell, with just a depreciating asset rotting in their garage for years to come.

Excellent points but assumes that the future Viper buyer is the current Viper buyer, which is unlikely. The current Viper buyer that you have described as cross-shopping C7Z, Hellcat, Shelby GT350 is unfortunately probably stretched a bit to afford the car but wanted to "give it a shot" to see what all of the enthusiasm is about (or to simply check it off the list of "been there, done that"). They have to get rid of the Viper to get the next fun car. So, yes, they may not hold it long (although they should).

The future Viper buyer is not that guy. In fact, the market is already moving away from that guy as the people scrambling right now to pick up limited edition Gen V ACR's are more likely to be well-heeled auto enthusiasts that have multiple fun cars in the garage. These guys can be holders for an extended period and are likely to be because the Gen V ACR to them fills a very limited role -- it is an incredibly special, very rare track car that can hang with anything. These guys will keep it on a rack in their garage until that beautiful Sunday morning comes around and they want to recall the feeling of driving purity. They will drive it once in a blue moon, but will keep it when they realize how special it is (i.e. how people gawk when they see it, how it feels to get into it, how it handles the track).

That is how this car appreciates. However, this is somewhat more applicable to the ACR than the other models.

[Policy Limits]

Nailed it

[GerryWoodViper]

I'd say Scott has an excellent grip on what makes a car desirable, collectable and ultimately increases in value. Well done sir.

[Donato]

Excellent points but assumes that the future Viper buyer is the current Viper buyer, which is unlikely. The current Viper buyer that you have described as cross-shopping C7Z, Hellcat, Shelby GT350 is unfortunately probably stretched a bit to afford the car but wanted to "give it a shot" to see what all of the enthusiasm is about (or to simply check it off the list of "been there, done that"). They have to get rid of the Viper to get the next fun car. So, yes, they may not hold it long (although they should).

The future Viper buyer is not that guy. In fact, the market is already moving away from that guy as the people scrambling right now to pick up limited edition Gen V ACR's are more likely to be well-heeled auto enthusiasts that have multiple fun cars in the garage. These guys can be holders for an extended period and are likely to be because the Gen V ACR to them fills a very limited role -- it is an incredibly special, very rare track car that can hang with anything. These guys will keep it on a rack in their garage until that beautiful Sunday morning comes around and they want to recall the feeling of driving purity. They will drive it once in a blue moon, but will keep it when they realize how special it is (i.e. how people gawk when they see it, how it feels to get into it, how it handles the track).

That is how this car appreciates. However, this is somewhat more applicable to the ACR than the other models.

This also assumes that future performance vehicles will be on par with the current mix of performance vehicles and the Gen 5 ACR will still be the top track dog 10 years from now. I don't think that it will so we can rule out the serious track-rats wanting an Gen 5 ACR at highly inflated prices only to get passed up by the new mid-engine Corvette ZR1.

As far as other future buyers wanting that "driving purity", no offense and no pun intended, those consumers are a dying breed, everything is going high-tech and that is what the future buyers know and will want.

Myself I'm kind of in the middle, I'm not too old and not so young but love high-tech and the Viper. My plan is on a Gen 5 SRT or GTS in the $70k to $80k range, but if I'm looking at $100k+ when the time comes, I'd probably set my sites on a GEN 4, and I be hard pressed to give up all the high-tech performance quality and comfort of the cars I mentioned previously for a; hot, noisy, smelly, rattling, poor visibility, low-tech, poor interior, rough riding, etc. 4th Gen Viper, but we shall see what the future brings...

[Policy Limits]

If you're middle aged you're probably in the last generation of purists. Most people under the age of 40 want flappy paddles, boost and tampon holders. So 1/4 century from now 40 year Olds will be 65. What better retirement present? It won't be the fastest thing in the market then, no. But it will then be and will ALWAYS be one of the best record setting track monsters of its time.

[ACR Extreme]

This also assumes that future performance vehicles will be on par with the current mix of performance vehicles and the Gen 5 ACR will still be the top track dog 10 years from now. I don't think that it will so we can rule out the serious track-rats wanting an Gen 5 ACR at highly inflated prices only to get passed up by the new mid-engine Corvette ZR1.

As far as other future buyers wanting that "driving purity", no offense and no pun intended, those consumers are a dying breed, everything is going high-tech and that is what the future buyers know and will want.

Myself I'm kind of in the middle, I'm not too old and not so young but love high-tech and the Viper. My plan is on a Gen 5 SRT or GTS in the $70k to $80k range, but if I'm looking at $100k+ when the time comes, I'd probably set my sites on a GEN 4, and I be hard pressed to give up all the high-tech performance quality and comfort of the cars I mentioned previously for a; hot, noisy, smelly, rattling, poor visibility, low-tech, poor interior, rough riding, etc. 4th Gen Viper, but we shall see what the future brings...

You are looking at things from your perspective - makes complete sense but it's incorrect and hoping to grab one later is what it is a hunch.

The pure driver cars are leading the red hot market stating the guys are a dying breed is naive.

The more tech inserted in new cars only makes the NA Manual worth more it's fact and happening across the board.

Bottom line - Vipers curtain call appeals to people who own far more expensive cars - people are grabbing a piece of history that walks the walk.

The 918 and like is the beginning of a bullshit era where cars are made for the masses. There is a video out of a 76 year old 918 owner who takes the car everywhere try tossing her the keys to a Viper and see how it works out.

history tends to repeat itself - take a look back at the cars that went out on top.

[ACR Extreme]

If you're middle aged you're probably in the last generation of purists. Most people under the age of 40 want flappy paddles, boost and tampon holders. So 1/4 century from now 40 year Olds will be 65. What better retirement present? It won't be the fastest thing in the market then, no. But it will then be and will ALWAYS be one of the best record setting track monsters of its time.

I don't want to speculate on who defines a purist it's based on the car before the owner.

Look the ACR is about as fast as a car can get - it comes down to being able to put down power and that's not going to change unless tires change.

Place street cars on a race and it won't perform any better than a Viper.

[Policy Limits]

On the rise: 6.0 Diablo, Ford GT, Countach, gated F430, gated lp650, air cooled Porsches, Saleen S7, Testarossa, lambo Houston wants 300k for a gated gallardo performante they just listed. 5 years ago these cars weren't listed for half as much dough. There's obvious continuity in the naturally apirated, single clutch gearbox, 3 pedals on the floor components to these.

Last V10 with a stick? Numbered? Anniversary car? Final edition? Special edition? You don't need to be a mathematician to do this math. History tends to repeat itself. Stay tuned.

[Jdmuscle]

Love both my Viper and the C7Z... here are the differences.. C7Z is a much better car to live with on a daily basis and provides almost Viper like performance with a much cheaper entry fee. On the other hand I like my Viper better cause of all the reasons stated above etc etc.

In the end.. both amazing vehicles. Buy them both

[dewilmoth]

I guess I should go drive a Z06 before disparaging it, but they just do nothing for me. Can't believe they're even in the same conversation as Viper, let alone ACR.

[Scott_in_fl]

C7Z is a really fast street car. It has been refined by GM to have broad appeal, which has made it a better car for most people. It is easy to live with, has all of the creature comforts, is easy to ingress and egress, has a nice big trunk, is highly reliable, and is an easy driver. A C7Z can definitely be a daily driver (mine is).

The Viper requires a high commitment to own, but that is what makes them so rare to see -- not everyone is willing to put up with the hassle of owning one. Manual only, difficult ingress/egress, stiff ride, race-car handling dynamics, etc. It is a very hardcore driving experience. If you are up to the task, it is a highly rewarding car to drive mainly because it touches upon so many senses for the driving enthusiast -- the sound, the feel of a tight cockpit, the direct steering and braking feel, the way the car can be thrown around, all imitate a race car experience better than anything else out there. Driving a Viper is more about having an experience, whereas driving a C7Z is different.

They are both terrific cars, but are wildly different, and intended for different drivers. If you can keep a Viper as a weekend car, and if you grew up on go-carts, 4-wheel ATV's (or better yet -- ATC's), motorcycles, or any other type of "go-fast toy" where man and machine blend into one, then you need a Viper. Nothing else in the car world instills that kind of sensation anymore. You would need to reach back and pick up an older P-Car or F-Car to mimic that same feeling (or grab an Ariel Atom, Radical, etc.).

Cars like these don't sell well to the masses because most people don't get it or are not willing to put up with it. They see it all as a pain in the ass. But older P-Cars and F-Cars were too, and they also sold in very limited quantities because most people could not understand why anyone would put up with their finicky nature when a Chrysler K-car, Olds Cutlass, or Ford Taurus could do everything so much easier. Hell, minivans are the best thing since sliced bread for millions of auto buyers.

You need to figure out where on the spectrum you situate as an auto enthusiast. I've always been the hardcore speed enthusiast -- comfort and utility mattered naught. Every bike I ever bought was the "R" version, or the homologation special. Everything that I ever added to a bike was intended only to make it go faster. I was never adding crap for looks, or for show. My bikes were essentially racebikes, with slicks, that had a number plate. For bike guys, I even had a TZ250 at one time that I tried to put a plate on.

So, on that spectrum that has the most hardcore buyer on the one extreme and the comfort/utility/efficiency of minivans on the other, the Viper sits at one spot and the C7Z sits at another.

[Policy Limits]

I guess I should go drive a Z06 before disparaging it, but they just do nothing for me. Can't believe they're even in the same conversation as Viper, let alone ACR.

Amen.

[Donato]

I brought the C7Z in the conversation as only an example. The context at the time was Viper values and first-time Viper buyers because of recent hype. My thought was Viper values would increase across the board as the least expensive examples are purchased on up the chain to the more aggressive Viper pricing.

I came to this conclusion because as of late I've never seen so many; "SOLD, SOLD, SOLD" in the Auto Classifieds for Vipers.

Now fast forward a few years when these first-time buyers compare the "commitment of owning a Viper" to say a C7Z as an example, I'd say most of the Vipers at this time will be sold off thus driving Viper values back down. These first-time Viper owners will sell or trade at any expense to get the; Hellcat, C7Z, Shelby GT or whatever.

The reason I used the C7Z example is because in the last 6 months I've seen many, many more examples of Viper owners going to C7Z on the Fourms and Auto Classifieds than vise-versa.

As another Forum member mentioned, this is just my perception for the sake of values discussion and in no way am I comparing the performance of the ACR to the C7Z, Road and Track already did that.

[Policy Limits]

It's a values thread. Corvettes lose 50 pennies on the dollar within the first 20 months of ownership. While early gen V's did the same, ACR cars remain hash tag 6 figures and will continue to assuming low miles, proper maintenance.

[Dajerseyviper]

Jon, I was about to post the same thing. Wow. $500K....

Dont laugh, look at these Porsche idiots that pay 600K for a used 911R that sold for 200K new just cause it has a real manual transmission. Now Porsche went and screwed them and put a manual back into the GTR3...for 250K....lol All their RARE manual cars are not not so rare..

[Policy Limits]

Haha...fail.

[ViperSmith]

Dont laugh, look at these Porsche idiots that pay 600K for a used 911R that sold for 200K new just cause it has a real manual transmission. Now Porsche went and screwed them and put a manual back into the GTR3...for 250K....lol All their RARE manual cars are not not so rare..

Comparing Porsches to Vipers lol

[Murpowa]

Viperjon stated it best...buy the car to drive it.

I feel many are going to be butthurt when they stared at a car for 20 years and it still depreciated...

[Policy Limits]

If u wanna look at it buy a poster. Hahaha

[Donato]

I don't want to speculate on who defines a purist it's based on the car before the owner.

Look the ACR is about as fast as a car can get - it comes down to being able to put down power and that's not going to change unless tires change.

Place street cars on a race and it won't perform any better than a Viper.

All it would take is a major paradigm shift in battery technology (or other alternative power source) to make them smaller, lighter, and more powerful and there will be a new breed of electrical performance vehicles that will run circles around the ACR on the track.

Who here would argue that current battery tech has reached its peak? That being said, I’m sure there were some during the ENIAC (considered the first digital computer) that would argue 50 tons couldn’t be so easily replaced by 50 micrograms but it happened.

For sure there will always be the nostalgic purest types that would still drive an ACR or some other gasoline powered vehicle but not for any serious track type duty.

Now this has absolute nothing to do with current Viper values but let’s not get stuck in a box and think the current ACR is the fastest thing that will ever be.

Imagine a new Viper Gen X ACR, 2,000 lbs. and perfectly balanced with a super low center of gravity, active aero, and a 500hp motor on each wheel. It will happen, maybe not under the Viper logo but it will happen...