Special editions for sale apparently

[LABrit]

997.2, great laid-back car. Very happy with it.

Yup, scored myself a very rare last of breed 09' Mezger PCMII manual - very happy with it.

[uberpube]

Looks like the ferrari chat thread got nuked...

[John N]

Free market? Respectfully there is no free market to buy these cars. Dealers have a monopoly ordering from the factory.

I am disappointed VE has gone this route. I've bought from VE before and recommended plenty of people.

Respectfully, this is exactly how the free market operates. Did you order your last TV direct from the Sony factory? If not, is that a rigged market too? Buying through dealers does not mean it is not a free market. There are thousands of dealers to choose from. The one being discussed ordered a lot of these cars because they could and because they had buyers for a great number of them up front. What difference does it make if maybe they sold 20 for invoice, 25 at MSRP, and are now asking more for the last remaining few? Made up numbers for illustration of course. Sounds like supply and demand to me. Order early and get a good deal, as demand picks picks up and supply shrinks the price goes up. You may be disappointed that they have made this decision on pricing the remaining cars, but that doesn't make it a rigged system or not a free market. Just MHO of course....

ACRFinalAssy25.jpg
You could always have ordered a SE early or a 1-of-1 like many of us that knew we wanted one of these bad boys...

Peace.

[RedTanRT/10]

Free market? Respectfully there is no free market to buy these cars. Dealers have a monopoly ordering from the factory.

I am disappointed VE has gone this route. I've bought from VE before and recommended plenty of people.

Smith, not picking on you, but, Tomball, like Woodhouse, bought 1/3 of the 2009 and 2010 production, kept the plant alive in the bankruptcy and probably got hammered when they finally sold the last of those vipers.

Selling vipers at volume like Tomball, Woodhouse and Roanoke is a hobby, not a for profit business. They do it because their enthusiasts and can afford to by selling the other FCA products as well as other brands.

For every G5 they get for $10k over, there's probably double the number of vipers where they lost money over the years.

[ViperSmith]

Respectfully, this is exactly how the free market operates. Did you order your last TV direct from the Sony factory? If not, is that a rigged market too? Buying through dealers does not mean it is not a free market. There are thousands of dealers to choose from. The one being discussed ordered a lot of these cars because they could and because they had buyers for a great number of them up front. What difference does it make if maybe they sold 20 for invoice, 25 at MSRP, and are now asking more for the last remaining few? Made up numbers for illustration of course. Sounds like supply and demand to me. Order early and get a good deal, as demand picks picks up and supply shrinks the price goes up. You may be disappointed that they have made this decision on pricing the remaining cars, but that doesn't make it a rigged system or not a free market. Just MHO of course....

ACRFinalAssy25.jpg
You could always have ordered a SE early or a 1-of-1 like many of us that knew we wanted one of these bad boys...

Peace.

I've bought two gen v's - i ordered mine the first day orders were open for the gen v while many sat on the sidelines.

This is not the free market as people are patting themselves on the back to proclaim. I can in fact buy a TV directly from Sony, I have before.

Not surprising people don't understand what the free market is.

[ViperSmith]

Smith, not picking on you, but, Tomball, like Woodhouse, bought 1/3 of the 2009 and 2010 production, kept the plant alive in the bankruptcy and probably got hammered when they finally sold the last of those vipers.

Selling vipers at volume like Tomball, Woodhouse and Roanoke is a hobby, not a for profit business. They do it because their enthusiasts and can afford to by selling the other FCA products as well as other brands.

For every G5 they get for $10k over, there's probably double the number of vipers where they lost money over the years.

That's a great story. Doesn't excuse the fact ADM is complete bullshit.

[Shooter]

That's a great story. Doesn't excuse the fact ADM is complete bullshit.

It only works because some people are stupid enough to pay it.

[Policy Limits]

I'm an underwater fire safety expert 8-p

[John N]

I've bought two gen v's - i ordered mine the first day orders were open for the gen v while many sat on the sidelines.

This is not the free market as people are patting themselves on the back to proclaim. I can in fact buy a TV directly from Sony, I have before.

Not surprising people don't understand what the free market is.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I fail to see the rationale behind disconnecting supply & demand from a free market. Know anybody that has had any luck strolling into their local Ford dealer and scoring a new GT at sticker or less?

I get it on the ADM, you don't like them. I don't like them either and have never paid one, but that doesn't mean nobody has the right to ask for (or pay) it.

[bluesrt]

you guys act like a bunch of unemployed protesters

[LABrit]

you guys act like a bunch of unemployed protesters

Hahaha

[The_Ruski_Driver]

It only works because some people are stupid enough to pay it.

Nail on the head! Some people act on emotion rather than logic...

[ACR Extreme]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I fail to see the rationale behind disconnecting supply & demand from a free market. Know anybody that has had any luck strolling into their local Ford dealer and scoring a new GT at sticker or less?

I get it on the ADM, you don't like them. I don't like them either and have never paid one, but that doesn't mean nobody has the right to ask for (or pay) it.

Agree

No one likes it and understand the dislike but it is what it is - paid it on a PTS GT3RS took almost a year to swallow and grab one that being said I daily the car and no regrets.

If they continue to rise no one cares the only Ford GT people complaining are ones that missed the boat.

This forum has more whiners than buyers so it's surprising for VE to even post given the lack of respect after what they have accomplished and shared best overall buying experience ever!

The only people who are upset didn't act early or never built a relationship neither are the fault of ADM from dealers.

[bigmacsmallfries]

Getting the popcorn ready...

[Dman]

The rabbit hole deepens. I guess my feeling is, I don't damn a dealer asking an ADM, but I respect those who don't.

The person who pays an ADM, I have no tolerance for, lol.

I agree it's a shame VE will be known now as having done ADMs, and people will shout gouging, etc, after all their years in the community and racing, etc. As a business owner and operator, I'd never do it, their rep IMO is too pristine to have even a perception of negativity, but it's their call and they made and whatever. Some won't care, some will tarnish them, but VE has made the decision that they're OK with a reputation change with some in the community.

Personally, I've been buying around ADMs in the mustang world for years, if you think ADMs on vipers is dumb, who are the morons paying ADMs on stangs? Twice I've bought long distance to avoid $10k ADMs on GT500's, not because I couldn't afford it, but because of principle, and I'm not stupid.

What was this thread about again?

[ACR Extreme]

The rabbit hole deepens. I guess my feeling is, I don't damn a dealer asking an ADM, but I respect those who don't.

The person who pays an ADM, I have no tolerance for, lol.

I agree it's a shame VE will be known now as having done ADMs, and people will shout gouging, etc, after all their years in the community and racing, etc. As a business owner and operator, I'd never do it, their rep IMO is too pristine to have even a perception of negativity, but it's their call and they made and whatever. Some won't care, some will tarnish them, but VE has made the decision that they're OK with a reputation change with some in the community.

Personally, I've been buying around ADMs in the mustang world for years, if you think ADMs on vipers is dumb, who are the morons paying ADMs on stangs? Twice I've bought long distance to avoid $10k ADMs on GT500's, not because I couldn't afford it, but because of principle, and I'm not stupid.

What was this thread about again?

It's about a guy who wants to make money by finding a Viper for members on F chat where ADM is the norm.

What happened to VE raising money for the run at the Ring - this place has a short term memory and even better if they get ADM everyone wins. Guys who pay ADM don't hang out on forums yitching.

[AZTVR]

you guys act like a bunch of unemployed protesters

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !

The "S" in MSRP is for "suggested". That price is not set in stone as a maximum. I don't get the argument that a dealer must be a greedy person for asking more. This is not drinking water being sold at a mark up during a drought. It is a rich man's toy.

I have heard that there are even people who try to pay the dealers less than MSRP. Are they also greedy bastards?

This is America. Go buy a car somewhere else if you don't want to pay ADM or wait for it to come down in price. They always do.

[bluesrt]

2 litre bottle of coke is cheaper at aldi goods, 7 11 is higher, greedy bastards!!!

[RedTanRT/10]

No offense but that's the dumbest thing I've ever read. Selling new Vipers is a hobby not a business and they lost more money than they've made on them? LMAOOOOO.....Bernie never lost money on a Viper in his life. Is this serious? Viper Exchange operates at a loss but they are happy to just provide cars to people as a humanitarian gesture. Check. Damn....I had to read this three times to make sure I was actually seeing it correctly.

For every G5 they get for $10k over, there's probably double the number of vipers where they lost money over the years.

Jon, you've been around for quite some time, it took a long time to clear out those '09's and '10's and some sold at big, big discounts, plus year(s) worth of floorplan interest and insurance. Do these guys make money selling vipers, sure they do, but small money relative to what they make selling volumes of rams and jeeps.

[ViperJon]

Jon, you've been around for quite some time, it took a long time to clear out those '09's and '10's and some sold at big, big discounts, plus year(s) worth of floorplan interest and insurance. Do these guys make money selling vipers, sure they do, but small money relative to what they make selling volumes of rams and jeeps.

I agree that they took a long time to sell out but lets not forget WHY they had so many to unload. 2010 was supposed to be the last year of the Viper too...so I'm sure they were planning to do then what they ARE doing now namely sell them at inflated prices. But unlike now there were no special editions or special branding/color schemes so they didn't sell well. And they had some god awful color schemes.

That's really much of what's selling now and stimulating the interest (along with the attending press coverage) what would sales be without special editions in 2017? Same old lackluster numbers. Secondly, if memory serves Dodge was giving dealers some substantial kickbacks on those cars to move them so selling at 10K off MSRP they were still making money.

[Bill Pemberton]

Actually , ViperJon, in 2010 there were no funds for the cars, it was for those Dealers who had left over 09s , that got funds to reduce inventory. We also recommended to Dodge to consider letting us do a Dealer Model and though 6 Dealers were involved only 3 elected to do their version. We also had the Final Editions , 1:33s , Vooodoos, and the Snakeskin Green models. Our ACR convertible sold out super quickly , as did the 1:33s and the Vooodoos, the Final models, though the SSG , surprisingly took longer. We sold out for 2010, and got no assistance from Dodge, primarily as we had sold out in 2009 and had no leftover cars. We came okay at MSRP and quite a few discounts, but just wanted to clarify there was not a bunch of money going to many Dealers. Overall just a quick note to clarify there were special cars in 2010 , and there was money to Dealers, just on 2009s.

[Steve-Indy]

While I generally steer clear of posting in this type of discussion, I will respectfully suggest to ViperJon that he find a suitable synonym for the word "kickbacks"...out of respect for some fantastic Viper dealer friends as well as for his own protection. From an online dictionary: "kickback - Legal Definition. n. A form of bribery in which a percentage of the revenues from a contract or other financial award is illicitly returned to the person awarding the contract or benefit".

[John N]

you guys act like a bunch of unemployed protesters

Hey! Don't you go knocking my protesting money. How do you expect me to pay for those outrageously priced replacement pads & rotors for my CCB's without that second income! Why, they are just raping and fleecing for those brake parts!

[IndyRon]

Lots on here have shortsightedness given the investment that Viper Exchange has made the events, raffle car, R&D for the performance packages, etc. I wouldn't pay an adjusted value on a new car either but that doesn't mean I wouldn't call them and offer them my best offer on it. I just don't get why people are so worked up over it. If its not for you, so be it....some seem to take it as a personal affront.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^^ This.

It's not for me either, but I certainly do not take it as a personal affront. As I've said before, I hope the pricing begins to rise and that cars start going for healthy premiums.